(Topic ID: 163305)

1965 bowl a strike- crazy at startup


By BarryMulvihill

3 years ago



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  • 34 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by rolf_martin_062
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 3 years ago

When I power on the table the score motor, kick out holes, and pop bumpers all start running continuously. When I hit flippers they move and then the 15amp fuse blows and everything except the lights stops working.

Any leads as to where to start my hunt?
Thanks in advance.
Barry m.

#2 3 years ago

Bump please help.
I have now cleaned both step units and confirmed they move freely and aligned. I have visually inspected everything. Only glaring issue is a suspected burnt coil for left flipper along with some bent switches on left flipper. There is also a missing contact on one switch connected to one of the score wheels.

When I power it on a bell chimes and then all parts (kickouts, pop bumpers, score motor) fire and turn in a rhythmic nonstop manner.

The fuse did not blow since cleaning and adjusting steppers. It was the 15 amp 24volt fuse that blew before tho if that is any clue.

Any hints at all would be so appreciated. Thanks.

#3 3 years ago

I should also note that someone previously split power cable to connect a power switch. Everything seems to power up fine but I'll put that out there..

#5 3 years ago

Rolf thank you. I will check what you said this evening.
Game was acquired in this state. I took on fixing it for my brother in law. I think seller just powered it on for him but didn't play it. They noticed feeling shocks when touching it but I think I fixed that issue.

I do not have the schematics. Some of the parts are labeled but not all of them.

#6 3 years ago

Alright. It's def got something to do with those two relays. Switching the relays positions got it to start up once and seems to be resetting scoreboard and ball number, but then went into its repetitive clicking once again. I have yet to recreate that scenario again.
The two relays are labeled tilt relay and game relay. The tilt relays farthest left switch was bent away, I bent it back to where it works as a make/ break switch. I can only assume that's how it should be.
When powered on the tilt relay moves a little in the same repetitive manner as everything else. It does not fully switch tho to its other state. Is that what it's trying to do?
Thanks again.
Barry.

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#7 3 years ago

Further observation:
On power on the tilt relays latch coil pulls in. And then keeps pulling in, in a rhythmic manner. The game relay stays in whatever state I put it in before powering on.

#8 3 years ago

And another observation:
If I bend tilt relays furthest left switch out of the way like I had found it, the game powers on silently, and when I press the start button the game relay pulls in, and the repetitive chugging begins. The game relay keeps pulling in repetitively as well..

#9 3 years ago

This could be part of the problem. It's one of three similar relays I think are part of score reel in headboard. The contacts gone and switch bent.

IMG_20160703_191751704_(resized).jpg

#12 3 years ago

Yes in post nine when I said headboard I was talking about the backbox. Learning everyday lol.

I've looked the whole thing over. There is no third interlocking type relay. Nothing labeled game over or anything like that.

The pic in post nine was one relay in a series of three relays that all look the same. They are next to the 1000-9000 unit (the thing with numbers,scorewheel?) In backbox.

I'd like to get schema if I can find one..

A side question. Is there ever an instance when switches should be closed when switch is in both states?
Thru lookin this over I'm noticing a few switches that are always closed. I don't want to go bending things unknowingly. But it just seems strange to me to have the switch if it doesn't change state.

#14 3 years ago

Rolf thank you. I will adjust observed switches an take note of the changes.
I will check asap of miss firing and report back.
Last night I did turn machine on with lights out and did notice a switch on one of the three backbox switches and also a switch on either the tilt or game switch were both missfireing (making a spark) in rhythm with everything else.

#16 3 years ago

The Jones plugs seem okay to my untrained eyes. I've wire brushed them clean. And each ones a different size so they can only go in one spot correct?

And the game did arrive like this. I have yet to see it behave correctly.

I will look over all the Jones plugs to be sure tho.

#19 3 years ago

Toyguy: I'm messing with this without the ball on play field, but I will check out the outhole relay. PS grand prix is flawless now!

Drofstyle: def agree. I think I'll be picking up a flipper coil and some switches and stuff at pintastic this weekend.

I will check back soon with updates. I'm wrapped up in so much right now that I sadly can't work on this as much as I want. Everyone's help is very much appreciated. You guys are great.

#22 3 years ago

The short and positive news is that I seem to have gotten this thing running great. Over the last week I've read all that I could find over at pinrepair.com. I got familiar with what proper switches should look like and function properly. I looked over the whole thing meticulously and made sure all switches look proper. It now powers up, resets, and plays game as it should. There are still issues, flippers need new coils I think and some switches are broken, but what looks correct seems to act correct.

I will add a another comment with the specific relays I corrected and the other changes I made soon. To help anyone else who may have this startup issue in future..

Thank you all for your help.

3 weeks later
#23 3 years ago

just an update, things still crazy, (replacing every malfunction i can find, as dr_of_style recommended) and it seems ROLF's first assumption may be the main culprit. still hunting for the game over switch. but mr ROLF, good blessings. you are a genius.

#24 3 years ago

my "pin reset" relay stays pulled in now on power on. everything else seems to work but theres a constant chugging. There is a switch on my "Game Relay" which seems to be connected to problem. blue sparks on both parts ocassionally.. any hints..

#26 3 years ago

a note, the "Game relay" is a latch/trip relay, and "pin reset" is a single coil relay in a set of five on the other side.

#27 3 years ago

"Lock relay" stays pulled in an buzzes on power up. Any guesses? Switches are looking better an better. It's funny what you can miss right in front of you tho.

#28 3 years ago

Alright, another question. Two of three pop bumpers, and two bumpers not firing. Fuses look okay and so do switches. My question is Any hint as to wether it's most likely a fuse cause multiple things don't work, or is there a switch I should be looking for that may control all of these parts? Any general/vague idea may help. I don't have schematics :/
Thanks in advance. I do plan on posting a big list of all changes made once things become clearer.

1 week later
#29 3 years ago

heyo im back lol. so im at one more road block. think everything else is working great. I noticed the three "spare" lights do not light up, and the "strike" lights don't reset once all lit. open it up and i found this bad boy labeling basically everything goin on. my question is a two part... the fuse connected to part is the only one not labeled, (the one in there "looks fine" and is a "buss mdl 5"), do you think thats the correct fuse for this part? And also looking back to a while ago while cleaning, i found a little two inch black wire not connected to anything. I can only assume one of the two is the culprit. without a schematic i dont know if fuse in there is the correct to replace and where the heck would little connector wire go? i cant see any obvious connector missing a wire.

im looking for any general advice at all to lead me to my gaming destination. thank you in advance. also a note that the "big arm" of this piece does move at powerup. its not totally dead, just during gameplay..

as for previous fixes its basically been correcting bent switches. its funny to find all the solutions to be glaring once you notice them.
-barry m.

ps. mr Rolf: i found the game over relay.

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#30 3 years ago

Bump for help. Any idea why this "module" won't fire relays but "big arm" fires at turn on?

#31 3 years ago

I changed fuse, doesnt seem to be culprit.

#33 3 years ago

rolf thank you for responding. if i understand you correctly, the "big arm" resets the "game over" relay. if so, that seems functional, so i guess my problem is that the 1st, 2nd, 3rd spare relays, and the 10 strike relay to do not fire at all during play. i can manually trip them, and they function, but again they do not fire/trip normally during play. yes i also agree schematics are probably necessary.

to describe further, you collect strikes from different targets, and there are ten "strike" lights that light up. when all ten light up "ten strike relay" should fire, resetting the strike lights.
also there are three "spare" lights that should light up when collecting spares from different targets, which would fire the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd spare relays.
-barry m.

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