(Topic ID: 294494)

1963 Williams Big Deal not adding credits when coins are inserted

By Peruman

11 months ago


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  • Latest reply 11 months ago by Peruman
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Bid Daddy 25cents relay (resized).jpg
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#1 11 months ago

The Big Deal I’m working on will not add credits when I put dimes through the coin mech or even if I actuate the switch on the bottom of the coin mech.

Looking at the schematic, the 25c coil turning on will in turn make the Replay Unit SU coil energize, adding a credit. This machine only has a 10-cent coin slot and I just can’t find the 25c coil anywhere.

The second photo shows the Jones plug that goes from the coin mech back to the game. It looks like I’m missing a wire. Can a Big Deal owner post a photo of this Jones plug?

The third photo shows the 25-cent ADJ Jack. The plug for it was missing from the beginning. Would this be just a male plug or is it somehow connected to the game? I could not find any unconnected wires when I took the game apart for cleaning. If someone can post a photo of this Jack with the plug, it would really help.

I’m hoping someone can help me understand why the coin mech is not triggering the Replay Unit Step Up coil to add a credit.

Thanks

Alberto

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#2 11 months ago

EM williams games with dimes/quarters slots do not "coin up" like you might think. If you insert a dime, it will reset the machine (without ever adding a credit) and the game will be ready to play. When there is a quarter chute, this will only add credits (according to the jumper you're missing) to the credit unit but it will not automatically reset the machine. To use those credits, you press the replay button. During reset, the machine will knock off one credit. The real kicker is that if you have credits (or replays) on the credit unit and insert a dime - the machine resets and steals one credit

#3 11 months ago
Quoted from gutz:

The real kicker is that if you have credits (or replays) on the credit unit and insert a dime - the machine resets and steals one credit

I have a 1965 Williams that takes dimes, and quarters. It has both 10 and 25 cent relays. If I have credits on it, put in a dime, the machine resets and the credits remain the same.

Quoted from Peruman:

I’m hoping someone can help me understand why the coin mech is not triggering the Replay Unit Step Up coil to add a credit.

If your machine does not have a 25 cent relay, I don't see how it's going to accumulate any credits. Someone must have cannibalized those parts for another machine is all I can guess. Surely the factory wouldn't have "customized" this machine by request.

#4 11 months ago
Quoted from sudsy7:

I have a 1965 Williams that takes dimes, and quarters. It has both 10 and 25 cent relays. If I have credits on it, put in a dime, the machine resets and the credits remain the same.

If your machine does not have a 25 cent relay, I don't see how it's going to accumulate any credits. Someone must have cannibalized those parts for another machine is all I can guess. Surely the factory wouldn't have "customized" this machine by request.

sudsy7 can you share the location of those two relays? I looked again this morning for the 25-cent relay with no luck.

Alberto

#5 11 months ago

if you don't have a 25c mech, then you have no use for a 25c relay, the adjust plug, or anything related to 25c.

the 10c coin switch is on the piece of the schematic you posted. It's just called "coin switch" and it powers the coin relay like gutz said. You need to look further down the schem to see how the "replay S.U." coil gets powered to see how credits are added. There'll be 25c relay/switch stuff there, but no "coin switch".

if your game is in an impossible state ... lock relay powered but the game relay is not tripped, the coin switch - and the replay button - won't work.

you need to debug the circuit thru the anti-cheat relay switch thru the coin switch to the coin relay.

fwiw, it's also likely your game works exactly as gutz said ... tho he probably should have said "some williams EM ...". sudsy7 has more complicated circuits and his machine will work differently.

#6 11 months ago

baldtwit I’m going to check the anti-cheat switch tonight, if that’s in the correct state and actuating the Coin switch does nothing then maybe it’s a bad Coin switch.

I did ohm out the Coin switch last night. It was an Open in the “up” position and measured about 40-ohms in the “down” position when a coin would hit it going through the mech.

I will also do some debug by jumpering across the anti-cheat switch and the coin switch to see if I can get the Coin relay to pull in.

Thanks

Alberto

#7 11 months ago
Quoted from Peruman:

sudsy7 can you share the location of those two relays? I looked again this morning for the 25-cent relay with no luck.

Mine is a different machine than yours, but all these 110v control relays should be next to or very close to the transformer on the floorboard. You probably don't have the 25 cent relay in yours. It is strange that it would be on the schematic (with no dotted lines around it or any indication that it is optional) and not be in the machine. But apparently it was made that way, unless somebody modded yours and cleaned up the evidence of the crime scene very well.

What happens when you actuate the Coin Relay with a wooden stick momentarily?

#8 11 months ago
Quoted from baldtwit:

fwiw, it's also likely your game works exactly as gutz said ... tho he probably should have said "some williams EM ...". sudsy7 has more complicated circuits and his machine will work differently.

Good point, my experience is with williams pitch'n'bat games from the early 60's.

#9 11 months ago

The 25 cents relay is located on the left of the logic board, between the transformer and the score motor.

Bid Daddy 25cents relay (resized).jpg
#10 11 months ago

Problem solved! It was the anti-cheat switch on the door. It looked closed, when measured, it was not. Once that was sorted out, adding a dime starts a game and per the schematic, does not add a credit to the Replay Unit.

sudsy7, actuating the Coin relay by hand starts a game, just like pushing the Start button.

TwinDavid no 25 cent relay on mine. Thanks for the photo.

This game is completed mechanically. Last two things are stabilizing the backglass and getting the drop target decals reproduced.

Thanks for all the help!

#11 11 months ago

You will like this game when you get it running.

#12 11 months ago
Quoted from jjga:

You will like this game when you get it running.

It’s been fun to play. It’s all up and running, just need to finish up a couple cosmetic fixes. I’m usually not big on short flipper EMs, but this one is fun.

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