21
Williams, 1960I have recently acquired a pretty decent machine, but I have a few disconnected wires.. I have a schematic, but could really use a layout pictorial diagram of what each relay is for so I can correspond with the schematic.
Anyone have anything that would fit the bill?
Thanks!
sounds like a 'card theme' pinball machine
you might want to show a few photos of what you are dealing with? 
I cant recall ever seeing a 21 game
A YouTube video of the same machine..
More info http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?gid=2681
I will try to post some pictures of my machine tomorrow..
looks like you have your work cut out for you, not hard just takes time .
The game works 50%? 80%?
Except for the 1 in 21 the BG really isnt so bad
where are the wire issues? the coin door?
I have no door.. It works about 80%. I had a few stuck solenoids, and such, but I would like to replace the springs on the score wheels. They dont seem strong enough for the wheels to ratchet properly. Plus they are identical, but have 2 different springs, which are in bad shape anyway..
Where do I get new ones?
http://www.pbresource.com/springkit.html
PBR has 2 spring kits for Williams a resetting steeper unit and a continuous steeper unit type
Also make sure they move freely -they get gummed up when people try to oil them
ok.. worked on her a bit more... only real issues are i need lots of bulbs and stepper springs...
anyone know how this guy is supposed to work?
What causes the stars to light up? OR advance the score in the clock?
Also, one other issue... ball gate stays open. wont close while the machine is powered. What ends a game and causes the gate to close?
KK
taking a look at the vid the score reels are your score in this type of game (cards) you dont want to go over 21. the guy in the vid tries to hold back on ball #3 but 'busts' -or goes over.
When he does hold 21 for a short time a 'special' is lit that you want to make for free game/credit wheel inpulse.
I was going to add that I thought the match unit in the back box would equal the dealers score,
the score you have to beat but after noticing at the end of game a match in the Back glass is seen other then the 'dealers score' I'd have to hold off on that idea.
Looks like the match unit is a single face and not a double face style in your game
Hmmm.....is there a stepper unit hung under the playfield or even a reset bank?
There is a bank of relays under the playfield. THe mechanism was stuck, and after disassembly, cleaning and reassembly, it works a bit.
Still don't know how the game knows its over. The ball gate stays open all game, and the solenoid that operates it is constantly energized. I am missing the coin door and I don't know what circuitry is supposed to be there...
AND I have one long disconnected wire (A20) on the schematic, but I don't know the terminology of the parts and some abbreviations. I'll post them tomorrow...
Almost done.
Remember on the older Wms. EMs the # is a wire color code, look for a wire index near the Sol. table.
Also a game can be started 1 of 2 ways credit on the credit wheel (back box) or coin drop with the coin mech. on the coin door.
After the the balls drop down to the lift assembly during start up it should de energize and close
Check the Coin Relay, after the Game Relay is set the Coin Relay should de energize .
Will you find the same color code wire from the ball gate Sol. on the Coin Relay??
Look for the Game Over Relay in the bank of relays under the playfield or where you find a 'gang' of relays that latch during start up.
Where is the credit wheel? I am new to these EM machines, and am still unsure of the proper terminiology. Where is the Coin Relay?
I found the Game Over relay, but still don't know what triggers it. The Schematic is full of abbreviations I dont understand..
Ok.. seems I have a burned out game relay coil. According to the schematic, its an X 30 1000 coil. When I manually trip that relay, the ball gate closes, and the game over lights light when all the balls drain..
I will advise when fixed..
Im sure there are more issues, but one step at a time.
Does anyone know where I can get a coinbox door for this thing?
Credit wheel is in the back box small and thin with numbers 0-37
the roll over wire forms (SW) below the flippers where the ball must pass over should in a way operate the game over re - but maybe indirectly.
A coin door can sometimes be found on the Mr Pinball classified look under 'parts' not 'games'
also pinball shows/swap meets. find a piano hinge and make your own out of wood.
Ok, Got it. What actuates the credit wheel?
The Game Over issue will be fixed when I replace the Game Relay coil. One is already ordered.
Arent there a few circuits in the coin door? The "21" machine has the coins drop through the wood rail and on into the box... I have no box or door..
Does anyone know what that looks like?
I'll be go to He!! THAT was the pinball machine I had as a teenager and had to sell it to pay a speeding ticket!! (1976). I have searched for it on the internet, not remembering it was a Williams... just "21". Read my profile story. Great to see one again, great memories!
Oh wow, I just got a speeding ticket today for the first time in 15 years,,, that is tooo wierd!
Kearney99 as long as you have credits on the credit unit the game should start up
most people bridge one of the switches on that unit to get a game on free play,
you need a coin door to make it look good and to carry over the artwork unless you want to have this pin earning coin and a few cats dropping in dimes from time to time ?
Go to the IPD site and after finding your game click on the MFG thats underlined (williams) and search by date, this should give you an idea what the hardware of this period looks like for an accurate restro.
look at coin doors from other games before and after your '21' pin and if your handy with metal work
may produce something similar that will pass
* bradbot see if you can find the door to this game will ya
http://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?mfgid=350&sortby=date&searchtype=advanced
See if this works -
Another question RE: Coin Box / Cheat Switch
So the connector that goes to the coin box is for the coin switch, yes? IF I were to momentarily connect them it should register one credit..
The other wires are for the cheat switch. I see it is a reed switch, but dont know how its supposed to function. I think those are the wires that are simply twisted together on my machine.
I also have one remaining loose wire its pretty long and it appears to go to the coin box area?
It's the same playfield and coin box as 1958 "Club House". Anyone have one of these that can take good photos of that wiring and can answer a few questions for me?
2 wires will go to 1 or more coin mechs that pick up the coin drop and register credits and start the game however they maybe more then one switch on the 'start' button and it will be progressive = 1st pair close, then 2nd but never both at the same time.
Cheat Switch = tilt Sw and should be 4 or 5 in a game and will short out the 'hold' relay when someone
is too rough or kicks the coin door in
I saw this on Ebay. If it would fit your machine it would be a great one to refinish for it cheap.
ebay.com link: Bally William WPC domestic coin door harness
Bradbot Quote: "Oh wow, I just got a speeding ticket today for the first time in 15 years,,, that is tooo wierd! "
That's bad luck finding one of the few cops in all of Nebraska .. hehehehe 
Anyone have a machine with one of these doors that they could give me some dimensions for the hole spacing?
OK.. Here's the update. It works. Still a few bugs, but it does complete games, it does everything its supposed to. Tomorrow, a little more cleaning and bulb changes..
I may post a video once completed.
Still looking for that ever elusive coin box cover..
Nice work Kearney99
the older games just take a lot of time
might want to build a temporary door out of wood until you find a
replacement just add some additional clearance for expansion & contraction ,
or you might not be able to open it on a very humid day.
OK.. Last glitch.
There are three eject holes on this machine. The top one works fine when the light is lit "50,000 point when lit". However, when it is not lit and the ball rolls in, it will not eject the ball. It will just cycle the score motor and the match wheel in the back just cycles and cycles.
It does pull the "hold" relay in, but I cant figure out what condition triggers the ejection.
There are some abbreviations on the schematic I dont understand..
Those are score motor designations
on later Wms. games the score motor is a horizontal type yet in your game it's a carrousel type .
on the paper they should be a drawing of that score motor and all it's ID names.
look for 0 index or perhaps indent?
and " C " 3rd switch.
but be careful on these older games (I think you do have the very last 'wood rail') you will find 110 volts on the score motor somewhere - you should see a nice spark during operation and heavier Insulation if not disintegrated over the years play it safe and pull the cord out of the wall outlet.
*did someone add a on/off switch to the underside of the game?
if not you should add one
Havent added one yet. Will do soon. Is it really the last wood rail?
Thanks for the safety concern, I'm very electrically aware. Been bitten too many times and by some greater than 110...not pleasant.
Will continue the hunt.
Absolutely. If you could take some detailed photos, that would be fantastic!
You have the same machine? a 21 machine?
http://forumimg.pinside.com/pinball/forum/?bb_attachments=32297&bbat=3694&inline
This is what actuates, so I assume it's the Unit, but whats the EOS switch?
End Of Stroke. after the primary contact gets opened or closed on some leaf switches, there is a secondary switch that will be opened to do various things or another switch entirely. i believe the primary use is to kill or reduce power to the coil, although i'm new to em's as well. on a step unit, i think it stops the coil pulse after the proper rotation of the wheels.
take a look at the flipper mech's switch, that is a common EOS switch. it could easily just be that it is not aligned correctly or the contacts need buffing or are worn out if it is not working correctly. the switch diagram will tell you the proper positioning itself.
Ok.. That switch is good. Gotta keep hunting.
I have to figure out what actuates the Top Eject coil when the light isnt lit.
look for wires yellow/black and yellow/grey at the hole relay #39,#384.
#384 is used 4 times so see where that leeds to
also follow it back to the S.M. and see if the Sw's are set 'right on'
Now that I look further I think it will be at the change relay
thats how you go from lit - to - unlit on the kick out hole
#51= White wire with red trace
Ok. School is back in session and I was able to aquire a few things over the summer..
In June, I had a gear tooth incident in the score motor. I was able to make a temporary gear from a Tamiya gearbox kit. (Worked ok, but every once in a while it would jam)
I managed to find a new (Used) score motor for around $20 on eBay. We just put it in, and the maching works great.
Also...again, sometime in July, just surfing the net I came across the coin door and frame on eBay and also got that for around $20.
So, that too has been installed. Now I am looking for a pic of the Williams Logo that is supposed to be in the front of it, and I am looking for a matching coin validator. I have the bracket with the coin return button, but the validator itself is missing. My soda machine's validator is much bigger and I was wondering what type this would be. Like as seen in the above pics..
I'm almost completely finished with this machine, its working great.
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Plattsmouth, NE