(Topic ID: 232688)

1959 United League Ball Bowler Restoration

By RedRhyno91

5 years ago


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    There are 66 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 5 years ago

    Good Morning New Friends!!

    I will be picking up my new to me toy in the next couple weeks. Of course it is in a basement! I will be updating this as I go and I am hope this winter project will be done before spring!

    Things I have questions about...

    What tools will I need to take it apart and move easily? Wrench sizes? Drivers and sizes? Rubber Mallet? I know this is going to be met with giggles and yes I know it weighs a A LOT! Ha. I'm looking for helpful hints and tricks from people who have lived and learned!

    The machine itself is in really nice shape....I think my main mechanical issues are only going to be degunking everything and restoring the pin deck. Bowties look good but it def needs some tlc....I think someone hotwired lights into it after the originals failed. Not a biggie as I am good with the electrical aspects of everything. I don't think it has ever been wiped down and it has YEARS dust and grime built up buy the game plays and does somewhat work!

    I am up in the air on a full restoration since the wood and paint is not bad for 60 years old. My plan right now is to see how it looks after being cleaned and degreased!

    Parts I know I need....

    Coin door and internals are MIA.

    Will need new placards for the game button and light.....also need the red light as that is gone too.

    I can't wait to start this and share the journey.

    Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions!

    Ryan

    #2 5 years ago

    First Question:

    I have the pin head off and have started to go through the first known issue....someone has removed all 6 light sockets from the pin head unit. Luckily, the wires are still there. What bulbs and sockets should I purchase?

    #3 5 years ago

    I believe they're the sockets that take the #63 bulbs..
    Those sockets are quite known to be worn from age.
    I use to replace them, but for a few years now, I've been
    epoxying in Christmas light sockets (4 of them, which is 110V
    bulbs), and wiring them in the ball lift motor's circuitry. I have a
    few ball bowlers on locations, and wiring this way, the pin lights
    come on at start up, and off at the completion of a game.
    Also, the lights are bright, but not overly bright. I've done this to
    both United and Bally and I'm way more pleased..
    If you'd like maybe to take this route, and like some more info,
    not a problem. We can stay here, or you can shoot me a PM.
    Used sockets work perfectly fine, but the last few, I went with
    new. Here's where I picked them up.. (T)

    https://www.christmasdesigners.com/c7-extra-socket-green-spt-1.html?matchtype=&network=g&device=c&adposition=1o1&keyword=&campaign={campaign}&gclid=Cj0KCQjwxvbdBRC0ARIsAKmec9Yp6CwVfLwOkySI1JnNXvcNNwU_q9G6qdGFPU8YyCS-hcuN6YIdgekaAhyDEALw_wcB

    #4 5 years ago

    That's not a bad idea at all! The person before me hotwired 110 to the transformer and had 6 lights constantly on. Thanks for the information and I could see exactly how that would be wired. I'm not concerned about keeping this thing stock by any means but I do like the feature of the front 4 lights dimming between shots...I feel it would keep my kids from firing balls down the alley before it was ready! Do you have any issue with that since the lights would always be on during the game? Your idea is substantially cheaper than $2 a socket!

    #5 5 years ago

    Actually, the cost isn't the main factor as much as the improvement.
    It is just more solid and better lighting..
    Years back, I got in a Bally ABC Tournament Bowler and someone at some
    point replaced the pin lights with miniture flouresent bulbs which is fine, but
    they wired it direct without it being fused. I said hang on here, and wired it
    to the ball lift circuitry which then had the pin lights lit only when the game
    was in play. Bally's scoring is so responsive that it's not far from impossible
    to roll a ball too quickly. United's is not as responsive, but still not an issue.

    #6 5 years ago

    I should add that I have let others know not to roll the next ball until
    the score has stopped registering..

    #7 5 years ago

    So my machine is missing the V-rubber too. I'm sure I can find one if I look hard enough but is it really needed? Seems to me I could fabricate something that would be equivalent. I truly don't care about everything being original. I just want it to look amazing in my game room and play perfectly. Would live to hear people's thoughts.

    #8 5 years ago
    Quoted from RedRhyno91:

    I truly don't care about everything being original. I just want it to look amazing in my game room and play perfectly. Would live to hear people's thoughts.

    The V section rubber is there because it has a specific function and I would never underestimate that purpose. Also for me looking amazing in a gameroom is maintaining originality but in a realistic and sensible manner and respecting the original engineering of the machine.

    #9 5 years ago

    I don't disagree but I would think I might be able to mold my own and have it very similar. I guess it depends on if anyone has one for sale. I'm not just going to throw some makeshift junk behind the pins. Lol. Maybe even 3d print something.

    #10 5 years ago
    Quoted from RedRhyno91:

    So my machine is missing the V-rubber too.

    At first I was thinking you were referring to the V ball return rubber which is best to have,
    but the red V rubber in the ball lift box is much important. It wouldn't surprise me if Chris at
    St. Louis Ball Bowlers may have replacements. Also, I imagine a rolled up rubber as in the
    United small ball bowlers would work okay, but whichever, having 1/4 or 1/2" flat rubber in
    front of either to take the initial hit makes for good protection..
    Note: In case you have a Tractor Supply store in your area, their 1/4 and 1/2" rubber is
    good for many applications, but for ball bowlers, it leaves black on the balls which noticeably
    transfers to the lane..

    #11 5 years ago

    I recently purchased various rubbers from Chris at St Louis ball bowlers. He has always had what I wanted for my ball bowler in knowledge or parts.

    #12 5 years ago

    Yea, I am referring to the V-Rubber contraption the balls hit that keeps them from flying out the back or hitting the back door. Exactly the thing Clay talks about in the DVD that he reverses and rebuilds with baler belt. I have a Tractor Supply about 10 min away so I am good there! I also have the other rubber that would be underneath that. I need to go through the electronics before I tackle the ball box. I KNOW all of the score reels, frame reel, and player reels are in need of TLC. I will be starting the Pin Head unit this weekend. That should take a few hours. I will try to post some pics of the process once I start. The pictures that other post are tremendously helpful so my goal is to pay it forward to whomever decides to jump into the EM Ball Bowler party in the future. I'm actually excited to go through the unit. Not so excited about refinishing the woodwork and repainting but after looking over everything again, I just can't handle the Honey Oak. It is going to have to be something a little darker. I will put a nice little before picture on this post. This is what it looked like before I took it apart and transported it. Love the green and red...hate the honey oak and cream lane paint...

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    #13 5 years ago

    On my Tropics resto I used Minwax golden oak on the timber and the closest filler I could find for the bumps. I found the golden oak made the finish slightly darker so you may find the same. But looking at your pics your timber should come up quite nice.

    Interestingly I reversed the V rubber as Clay suggests but what I found on re-install was that from the constant hitting the ball had become slightly 'warped' towards the back. So when I reversed it it then had a natural warp to the front and was not letting the balls through on the left or high side of the ball trough channel. I needed to reverse to original albeit with a repair to a split section of the V rubber.

    1 week later
    #14 5 years ago

    The machine is home and in the garage. Started to dig into the reels. 1 down and 29 to go. Also started on the pin deck. It is actually in really good shape minus the missing light sockets. I have ordered those and they should be here this week. The only thing missing mechanically at this point is the v-rubber and coin door. I spoke to Chris at St Louis BB and he has the parts I need. My plan is to get player 1 and player 2 running along with the total score reels and marks reels. Once I confirm the game plays in that mode I will move on to the wood and paint. The lanes are in good shape but are going to need reinforced due to slight warpage. Pics coming soon.

    #15 5 years ago

    So one of the things I need to do is warp proof the lanes. I pulled the formica off and I am missing 2 of the 1.5" rubber isolation bearings. The rest of them are ROCK hard. Anyone have any clever substitutes or are they supposed to be that hard? I'm sure SBB has them but was wondering if there was something newer that might be better?

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    #16 5 years ago

    I thing maybe originally those rubbers were somewhat hard, but not rock hard..
    I had cut small square pieces of rubber for replacement, but if you'd like a more
    original look, a hole saw would probably do the trick..

    #17 5 years ago

    I don't need original hahaha...I don't plan on ever seeing them again once I put it back together!! I'm looking for function. Cheap, easy and functional.

    #18 5 years ago

    There's Tractor Supply stores around where I am that has 1/4" and 1/2" rubber.
    I've used it for a few different applications, but I no longer use it in the ball lift
    box where the ball comes in contact with it. It leaves black on the balls. I found
    another rubber for that..

    #19 5 years ago

    What other rubber are you using for ball lift box? I have a TS about 5 miles from my house too.

    #20 5 years ago

    For years, I used rubber that a Friend gave me who work where they
    made the rubber, but no longer works there and I'm falling short on rubber.
    A few months back I restored a small ball Bally, and used the T.S.
    rubber, but in front of that I put a piece of "Welcome" mat which I picked
    up cheap at WalMart. It's only 1/8" thick, but doesn't leave black on the
    balls, which of course would transfer to the lane..
    I cut the mat rubber slightly larger to insure the ball doesn't touch the
    T.S. rubber. I did the same with the back ball lift door. Contact Cemented
    1/4" T.S. rubber to the backdoor, then Contact Cemented Welcome mat
    over that. It works okay..

    #21 5 years ago

    I noticed the Ironmind poster hanging to the right of your bowler. Don’t see to many of those on a pinball forum. I used to compete in grip competitions so I owned a lot of Ironmind equipment. Have also done strongman and armwrestling in the past. Did you compete in strength sports or just a fan of Ironmind equipment?

    #22 5 years ago

    Parkshow30 That poster is actually in the basement of where I bought the bowler. Their son competes in powerlifting. Ironically enough, he was NO WHERE to be found when we moved that beast up the stairs and out of the house!! hahaha

    3 weeks later
    #23 5 years ago

    I am completely at a loss on how to remove the ball trough easily. I would assume there are 3 bolts because that is what the holes are there for and I can also see on the bottom and there are clearly 3 bolts screwed in. However I have no idea what the issue is. I'm attaching a couple pics. Anyone know the bolt size or screw type? It appears there is a rod in there somewhere too..I'm stumped and I don't want to drill them out from the bottom unless I need to.

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    #24 5 years ago

    Originally, they are flat head screws, no rods. Most of the time they are rusted in pretty good to the T-Nuts that is on the underside of the head.

    #25 5 years ago

    Thanks....I can probably flip it and drill them out faster than messing around with them.

    #26 5 years ago

    I found on a recent resto that these bolts can become slightly bent (that trough takes quite a battering) and therefore more difficult to remove. Removal patience won the day and I replaced the bolts.

    #27 5 years ago

    I pulled the trigger on an endoscope camera for another project and it is being delivered today. Will be interested to look in those holes and see what the previous owner modified! ha

    3 weeks later
    #28 5 years ago

    So I have everything cleaned and I think I have a fairly simple issue to fix I just need some help. Everything resets correctly except the frame reel. The frame step up unit seems to be working correctly. It is just not resetting the actual score reel. I'm stumped. The frame reel advances just fine it just won't reset back to 1st frame. Switch seems be adjusted correctly on the frame reel. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Im not so good on reading the schematics at this point.

    #29 5 years ago

    Okay, so the Frame Reel's run out switch seems to be adjusted properly so that it
    only opens when the Frame Reel is on "0".
    Without looking at schematics, I'm guessing but pretty certain that it resets as the score
    reels do through a Score reset Relay. The score reels Reset Relays would have a set of contacts
    for each score reel, so the Frame Reel would only need one set of contacts. It may have it's
    own relay, or the set of switches may possibly be tied into one of the Score Reels Reset Relays.
    Also, it may possibly travel straight through the score motor's wiper board, but I'm thinking
    that's not the case..
    If this info isn't much help, perhaps you could post a photo of the section of the schematics
    of the Frame Reel's circuitry..

    #30 5 years ago

    Here are the schematics. I think the reset runs through the score motor.

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    #31 5 years ago
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    #32 5 years ago
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    #33 5 years ago

    I forgot this was a Team Bowler until I took a look at the schematics.
    Anyways, yes, it's what I first thought. The Frame Reel resets through the
    (score) Reset Relay which the Reset Relays does energize through the Score
    Motor's wiper board..
    There's 3 Reset Relays, A, B, and C. The Frame Reel resets through a pair
    of switches in Reset Relay B.
    I have to think that Reset Relay B (along with A and B) has multiple sets of
    switches to reset all of the score reels, and one of those sets in B is for the
    Frame Reel..
    I'm pretty sure that anytime when the machine is turned on and any of the score
    reels are not on "0", you can manually energize (tap) the Reset relays and
    the score reels will energize. If that is the case, when the Frame Reel is not
    on "0", you can stick a small screw driver in between the sets of contacts in
    Reset Relay B to have them make connection, and then see if any of the
    sets energize the Frame Reel. If none do, I would clean and adjust the contacts
    in B and see if that does the trick at start up. I'm pretty sure that it will, but if not,
    we'll have to explore a little further..

    #34 5 years ago

    I thin you are right. The issue is in that B relay. I'll try to trouble shoot that. I found the switches for the scores reels in B so I think I'm close.

    #35 5 years ago

    Yup, most likely dirty contacts/need adjusting in the B Relay..
    Before adjusting, snugging up the switch stack screws is always
    a good idea..

    #36 5 years ago

    Fixed!!! Combination of dirty switches at B and dirty switches on the frame reel. Just dirty enough on the frame reel to caused it to think it was open every couple cycles. Thanks!!!

    #37 5 years ago

    Nice! Now you have a bowler that plays as well as it looks!
    One other thing. Not a must by any means, but what I think adds much to
    the 10 pins are red vinyl numbers. I've done many bowlers and always add
    the numbers. 10" pins came originally with 2" numbers, and the bottom of
    the numbers are 2" from the bottom of the pins. They can be cleared over,
    but I never had a problem with them coming off..
    These were Chicago Coin pins which fit on Bally bowlers, so I had to sand of the
    C.C. emblem, repaint, then apply the numbers..

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    #38 5 years ago

    Very cool! Well mine does not look good yet. I am going back and forth on how new I want to make this look. My 12 year old wants me to leave it as is and just give it a really good cleaning. My wife wants all the wood refinished and everything repainted. I might compromise and repaint everything but just leave the oak as is. All the lights are fixed...pins are all adjusted....this was my last major issue I hope.

    #39 5 years ago

    For me it would be hard to disagree with a 12 year old.
    From what I can see, I'd clean it up, maybe apply Old English
    to the hard wood, and enjoy its game play..

    #40 5 years ago

    Sorry to hijack a bit, but I'm looking to possibly making my own mini bowler. Would anyone know where I could find some ball bowler gutter sections? Seems pretty difficult to make the "U" shape out of wood yourself, so would think there would be somebody that replaces them/sells gutter sections new.

    #41 5 years ago

    You might contact St Louis BB...they might have those. Local mill could probably do something too. Mine are 60 yrs old and solid oak. They will be here long after I'm gone.

    #42 5 years ago

    Quick update....JUST finished all the reels in the head...all 30 of them!! Every one of them was completely gunked and frozen...old oil and grease everywhere. Didn't have to do much soldering but did have a few broken connections. Coils are all in amazing shape. Score reels themselves we're filthy and they are not cleaning up great at all. How do guys get them looking new? Is anyone making reproductions?

    #43 5 years ago
    Quoted from RedRhyno91:

    How do guys get them looking new? Is anyone making reproductions?

    Those are the plastic yellow reels, right? I always just used Windex and paper towels. Have to be really careful if
    the numbers are loose, but was always able to fix them up with a fine sharpie.

    Quoted from orangestorm87:

    Seems pretty difficult to make the "U" shape out of wood yourself, so would think there would be somebody that replaces them/sells gutter sections new.

    I actually have made gutters before. For the U ingroove, on a table saw, I clamped a guide going the opposite way and started with
    the blade very shallow, and raised it slightly with each pass. I remember the key being to have the proper diameter blade so when it
    reaches its proper depth, it also has the proper width..
    Way back I did two 8' gutter sections with only a skill saw and sandpaper around a 2.5" metal nipple. Doing it that way took quite
    some time, but I was determined..

    #44 5 years ago
    Quoted from Mopar:

    I actually have made gutters before. For the U ingroove, on a table saw, I clamped a guide going the opposite way and started with
    the blade very shallow, and raised it slightly with each pass. I remember the key being to have the proper diameter blade so when it
    reaches its proper depth, it also has the proper width..
    Way back I did two 8' gutter sections with only a skill saw and sandpaper around a 2.5" metal nipple. Doing it that way took quite
    some time, but I was determined..

    That is a lot of sanding and finish work!

    You don't happen to have a coin door and mech floating around for a United do you?

    #45 5 years ago
    Quoted from RedRhyno91:

    You don't happen to have a coin door and mech floating around for a United do you?

    I actually do, but not that I can spare. I think I need 3 of them. If I find having a 4th one, I'll let you know.
    Those type of doors with the lower slide were on United late 50s/early 60s ball and shuffle bowlers, so hang
    in there. There's some out there. I'll keep an eye out also..

    1 month later
    #46 4 years ago

    No pictures but a quick update. Started putting everything back together last evening. I think it will be 100% working and ready to go! If everything works as it should I will finish cleaning up the oak and really focus on making it look nice prior to the basement move. Hopefully rolling a a few games tonight after work!

    4 weeks later
    #47 4 years ago

    Help!!!!! Haha.....let me see if I can explain this......the 8 pin switch on the relay bank causes a fuse to blow and I get a wonderful light show on the switch stack at the 8 switch.......the 8 pin will not trigger in the pin deck.....when I roll over the switches with my hand.....anything hat triggers the 8 pin will pop the fuse...everything else seems to be going just fine......the switch stack is clean and adjusted correctly... Thoughts?

    #48 4 years ago

    Also....when I unplug the pin deck the game works flawlessly.....so something is shorting out somewhere......but where??

    #49 4 years ago

    What you'll want to check is under the pin hood, the #8 pin coil. Check if
    its solder tabs is slightly turned, and one is touching its frame.
    If so, you just need to loosen the back coil screw, and adjust the coil's
    position so both solder tabs are directly upright..

    #50 4 years ago

    No pics? Pfft!

    So pin deck unplugged, game works?

    Take out your dmm and start checking for a broken wire?

    Visually inspect for a loose connection or cloth shearing shrunken back?

    Is fuse holder good?

    Just a few thoughts until someone who knows what they're talking about chimes in.

    -------------

    And there you go! Mopar beat me to the "post" button.

    There are 66 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.

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