(Topic ID: 267908)

1959 Gottlieb startup looping

By kdammen

3 years ago

Topic Stats

  • 7 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by kdammen
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider


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Dancing Dolls M relay (resized).jpg
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#1 3 years ago

I'm struggling with my 1959 Gottlieb World Beauties. After it's been sitting a few days it will struggle to start up. The 10,000 unit will just keep spinning. Once it's started we are usually good, until we let it sit again. I've tried cleaning what I believe are the zero position sensors, but it still does it.

It's tough to troubleshoot because after a few seconds the machine will start working. I appreciate any advice.

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#2 3 years ago

I’m not familiar with the particular machine, but it’s possible that when the 10k stepper steps from 90k to 0k during the startup sequence, it is not engaging the 100k stepper so that it steps up from its negative 1 position to its zero position. During the startup sequence, usually the circuit to the 10k stepper goes through a switch on the motor and a connection that is made when the 100k stepper is at its negative 1 position. Good luck!

#3 3 years ago

I agree with tfduda. I believe that the 100k stepper resets all at once to the -1 position while the 10k stepper steps forward from wherever it is to reach 0. As the 10k stepper steps from 9 to 0 it should kick over the 100k stepper too so they both end up at 0. This is the circuit from Dancing Dolls. Yours may be similar:
Dancing Dolls M relay (resized).jpgDancing Dolls M relay (resized).jpg
If your 100k stepper isn't stepping forward one step after resetting it could be that the switch on the M relay isn't closing, or that the M relay itself isn't firing. If it's not firing you'll need to investigate the reset path in red.


#4 3 years ago

Here is a quick video of what's going on. It does look like the 100,000 is the last part to move. I believe this circuit is very similar to Dancing Dolls.

#5 3 years ago

I think you guys may are correct. After watching that video again it doesn't look like the M relay fired until the end. I'll see if I can trace the wires. First I have to learn to read the schematics.

#6 3 years ago

Yeah, based on the video, it looks like the M relay doesn't fire for a bit and then when it does, the 10k stepper stops stepping.

The circuit to the M relay is usually completed through a switch on the back side of the 10k stepper that closes as the drive arm (i.e., the big, metal arm towards the bottom back of the stepper that pivots to cause the stepper to step up) moves when the 10k stepper coil engages. I've had a few cases in which a poorly gapped or dirty switch prevented the M relay from firing consistently and resulted in the situation you have.

You should be able to peer behind the bottom lower left of the 10k stepper to inspect this switch (or just loosen the two bottom support screws and remove the top one so that you can remove the entire stepper to check out its back side). If I remember right, there's one NC switch that opens (and opens the circuit that keeps the N relay engaged) and one NO switch that closes when the drive arm moves (to complete the circuit to the M relay--this is the one that might be causing your problems).

Good luck!

#7 3 years ago

Thanks.I just cleaned the switch on the 10k stepper arm, all switches on the m and N relay. Also the switches on the back of the 100k unit. So far it appears to be working. I think the issue is though, as you said. The switches on the back of the 10k unit needed adjustment. They barely opened enough to break the circuit. It's working now, but only time will tell.

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