(Topic ID: 284654)

1954 Bally Big Time not starting game right-no ball

By rvcullen

10 months ago


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  • Latest reply 9 months ago by rvcullen
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#1 10 months ago

Hello all,
This is my first post but have visited here quite a bit. Lots of knowledge to be had and I love the older EM pinballs. So i got my first EM bingo and it was purchased as-is needing TLC. I went through a LOT of the parts so far, and lubed, cleaned most of what I need to so far.
But I still have the same issue as when bought, hitting start relay or adding coins, the game never throws a ball in the lane to start a game.
When I first power up the game, both motors are running, and if there is any credits on the meter, it properly resets to zero. The motors stay running even with no coins (not sure if that is right or not).
Adding coins does get it to run through the steps of adding features, incrementing the pay tables, etc., but i never get a ball to start the game.

I have found if I hit the extra ball relay or some random relays, that occasionally it makes a ball pop up. If it does, then I can shoot that ball and the others come up as well. Scoring seems to be ok, though may need to clean contacts still a bit for bulbs. I can even do an extra ball and will get the five balls and game offers the payouts if i have a win. So, overall, the game seems to be functioning mostly once I can get a ball, but the problem is getting the ball.
Not really confident on the leaf switches on the shutter motor, as some arc a bit, but generally they are clean and do what they are supposed to.

Could someone maybe fill me in on what to expect when I power this game up, especially if the motors should turn off until I put in money, which they do not now? If i tilt the game, they do shut off, and adding a coin turns it back on.
And maybe you could suggest where to look or the sequence of events to have a ball raise up?
I have manual and schematics, but still very new to the way the schematics are laid out and a bit lost on what happens to start a game.

Thanks for any help!

#2 10 months ago
Quoted from rvcullen:

When I first power up the game, both motors are running, and if there is any credits on the meter, it properly resets to zero. The motors stay running even with no coins (not sure if that is right or not).

Yes, if the timer unit is reset, the game has to step it up to max position (40) then throw the tilt trip to disable the motors. That's normal.

Quoted from rvcullen:

Could someone maybe fill me in on what to expect when I power this game up, especially if the motors should turn off until I put in money, which they do not now? If i tilt the game, they do shut off, and adding a coin turns it back on.

Sounds like everything is working properly with the exception of the ball lifter. I would wager it's one of these two things:

1) Dirty trough 8 switch
2) wrong size ball - bingos require 1 1/8" balls and not 1 1/16" standard pinballs. Using the wrong size ball might prevent trough 8 from being pressed, which would prevent lifting.

Trough 8 has a near-direct connection to the lifter motor, and if the lifter motor works at all, then I'd guess it's one of the two things above.

#3 10 months ago

RV........
Here is the link to Bally Bingos website. He explains the complete operation of "How Bingos work'.
Bookmark the site for future use.
"How things work"..
http://bingo.cdyn.com/techno/howtheywork/
You could check here first....... as stated above; make sure you have 8 balls in the trough!
"Ball lifting".....
http://bingo.cdyn.com/techno/howtheywork/ball_lift/firstball.html

#4 10 months ago

Very, cool, thanks to both of you! I will verify the trough switch is working. I did make sure we had the right balls, as I heard they were different as well, and have all 8 lined up.
Throwing a credit in, the game makes plenty of cool sounds, the leaves me hangin! lol. I'll get back here after I check them out and see.
I have been on the cdyn site, but I missed any part on the steps it takes when a game starts, so was not sure where to look first. Love the info there though.
Thanks!

#5 10 months ago
Quoted from bingopodcast:

Yes, if the timer unit is reset, the game has to step it up to max position (40) then throw the tilt trip to disable the motors. That's normal.

Quick question on the timer stepper as well. I have not seen it step at any time so far. When I power up the game and put in credits, it also does not increment at all. Is this because it is waiting on the ball lifter?

#6 10 months ago

The timer steps the first few steps as it lifts balls - once you fix that problem it will likely start working.

It steps on a psuedo-random basis after that and times out after a while (few minutes). When it times put (at step 40), it throws the tilt trip, which kills the game until the start relay is pulled in next (next coin or replay played).

In short, address the trough issue and the timer will probably start working.

In replay reset/anti-cheat inactive mode, the game will keep stepping the timer on that randomized basis even if it hasn't moved in gameplay. I think.

#7 10 months ago

Well, went through the lifter circuit and now, lol, when i power up the game it immediately starts dispensing balls until it uncovers the 3rd trough switch. Ha,too funny. I literally only went through the switches and did minor cleaning of contacts, so not sure what happened. I will resume tomorrow, but if anyone had this before that know the best spot to look, feel free.
So basically 4 balls left and it stops. If I add a 5th one, it dispenses one. Would it make the extra ball stepper an issue?
At least I am starting to get the hang of the schematics.

#8 10 months ago

I don't understand - it lifts four balls? What do you mean add a fifth one?

The extra ball stepper has to move to position 4+ to lift the first eb.

#9 10 months ago

Timer Stepping unit...... If you did not clean the Timer unit, Turn power OFF and manually advance the unit and see if it moves smoothly. Clean the contacts if they are dirty. Step the Unit thru all the steps, than press the Reset plunger and verify the timer completely resets.
@ It sounds like the Timer is jumping too far ahead and lifting too many balls.

#10 10 months ago
Quoted from bingopodcast:

I don't understand - it lifts four balls? What do you mean add a fifth one?
The extra ball stepper has to move to position 4+ to lift the first eb.

Sorry if my explanation was confusing. Basically what i meant was that now, the lifter get power constantly, as long as there are 4 balls in the chute (3 in chute and 1 on lift). so if I kept adding balls back into chute, it would run endlessly, unless there are only 3 left, then it would stop. So it shuts off , only when the #3 trough switch is released.
Timer was rebuilt and is clean, contact, etc. very light lube on rivets and runs smooth. I will have to see what things are set at, as I went from no lifter working to now it runs continuous, so obviously I have to trace my steps there.
I will update when I can get another look.

#11 10 months ago

Is this in a game or just after turning the machine back on at the power switch?

Check the lane switch (switch ball hits when it hits the shooter lane)

The trough 1 switch (that's the one the ball rests on when about to be lifted - it is actuated by a small pin and frequently gets stuck over the years from beer or other liquid poured inside)

And lastly the ball gate switch. There's a switch under the ball gate at the top of the shooter lane. This should change state pretty close to when the ball is pushing the gate open fully. A little leeway is necessary depending on speed and spin of ball as it exits, but not too much.

It's one of those three and I suspect it's likely the shooter lane switch is not working. Easy to mush it when lifting the playfield if you've not seen that arrangement.

#12 9 months ago

Whoo, Hoo!! You guys are the best! Thanks for walking me through this. Part of my silliness is that I got the ball lifter working but still had the playfield up, so until you mentioned the lane switch, I was chasing my tail! Set er' down, and she is rockin! It kept spitting balls because I had the top up! lol.
Just need to go through the feature steppers to get some lights working, not flickering, etc. but overall seems good, though I think the scoring is wacky, but more cleaning to do before I try and figure that out.

Last question! Should i expect the CU motor to run hotter than the mixer motor? It seemed to run pretty hot when I first started testing it, but then I rebuilt the CU assembly, lube, neatfoot oil, etc. and seems to be fairly bind-free, but that motor coil sure seemed hot. Any idea on acceptable temps for these before I worry too much?

Thanks again!

#13 9 months ago

the CU and mixer should be the same motor. Who knows what is actually on there now You could measure/compare the winding resistances, but you'll need to disconnect one of the motor wires since they are wired in parallel.

assuming the motor has a fan and you can spin it to turn the shaft with your finger, I wouldn't worry about how hot the winding gets. Worst that can happen is it'll smoke a little and you know you need a different motor (or at least a different stator).

if it got hot before you redid the shaft pieces but is better now, that's typical. The motor will draw more current and get hotter to overcome sticky clutches.

#14 9 months ago

Great thanks. Been testing the payouts for a bit and seems to level off at a "too hot to hold onto" but not too crazy heat. Maybe I'll throw an infared on them next time for some refernces.

So, I do have 2 more questions. Sorry,lol.

If I am at the base payout level, and no features lit (just like 1 coin in), should I get any wins from either of the supercards, if I have 3 in a row? Testing the payouts, I get the proper wins from the main card, corners (both from main card and supercards when lit), supercards 3-in-line gives 4-in-line wins, and whatever combos I tried. But the way it reads on instructions seems like I should get wins from the supercards even when not lit, but none of the combos I tried do anything unless I have a supercard lit.
If it should be paying, any idea where to look to try and troubleshoot? Seriously seems like all other payouts work a charm, so not sure if this a thing or not.

The other question relates to "freeplay". Whenever I power game up, it resets registers like it should, and always raises a ball right away, and i can actually just start playing a game. Basically seems like it "loads" a credit anytime it is on, and i am sure that is not typical. ANyoen know hacks I need to check on to see why this occurs. Last owner did install a button on the front to load more "coins" already, so not sure why it would also load a coin when powered up too.

Thanks all, again. This site is great info!!

#15 9 months ago
Quoted from rvcullen:

but none of the combos I tried do anything unless I have a supercard lit.

Correct. Without the supercard qualified, nothing will score on the supercard. That's normal behavior.

Quoted from rvcullen:

The other question relates to "freeplay". Whenever I power game up, it resets registers like it should, and always raises a ball right away, and i can actually just start playing a game. Basically seems like it "loads" a credit anytime it is on, and i am sure that is not typical.

If you turn it on with no balls on the playfield, it will lift 5 balls and this is typical. Those 5 balls will not score. If they do, then your anti-cheat relay has something funny going on. That seems unlikely because replays reset. I'm betting this is also normal behavior. To test, shoot 5 balls, turn it off and then it back on. Does the game reset?

#16 9 months ago

Great news then, thanks! The instructions I read and even the card on the machine were kind of vague on that part. So with those 2 questions answered I think I am in fair shape now. Ran through a ton of games and she is running pretty well. Happy times! Thanks all, again!
I'll try to add where I can to this site, but still learning as I go on some parts.

#17 9 months ago

Post a picture of your "Big Time"...... We all like pictures 1

#18 9 months ago

Will Do! Still doing a little patchwork on the poor backglass to make it better. Had some heavy flakes, as usual. Once I get that I will be sure to post!

#19 9 months ago

SO, noob question! I uploaded 3 photos to the bottom of the post area, but are they available to public there, or do i need to add them to a post now? Will add one to this post to see, but not sure how that works yet.
Playing the game a bit tonight and noticed the flashing lights, when you add credits and sometimes bumps up pay or features, seem to be touch and go. Sometimes they all cycle around nicely and other times I get not lights. Anyone have a go-to spot for me to check that feed power to the spotting wheel to output to the lights? Checking around seemed pretty clean now, but I am betting i am missing some contacts somewhere.
I already bought some new contact pads from Pinball Resource too, great fix for some of the really burned contacts too.
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#20 9 months ago

Your photos got added to your post properly! Once you upload them, you have to click the plus sign to add them to your post. Looks like you have it all figured out.

Quoted from rvcullen:

Playing the game a bit tonight and noticed the flashing lights, when you add credits and sometimes bumps up pay or features, seem to be touch and go. Sometimes they all cycle around nicely and other times I get not lights. Anyone have a go-to spot for me to check that feed power to the spotting wheel to output to the lights? Checking around seemed pretty clean now, but I am betting i am missing some contacts somewhere.

The mixer latch relay has a switch which allows the coin flash, if I recall correctly. That's located at the top of the back door. Mixer latch is the coil that pulls in the bar to allow the mixers to turn.

#21 9 months ago

RV,
*** Very Nice*****
Front Door should look like this.........

cab-big_time-1 (resized).jpg
#22 9 months ago
Quoted from JKnPA:

RV,
*** Very Nice*****
Front Door should look like this......... [quoted image]

LOL, yeah, funny that whomever had this before me, ended up getting "creative" with the front and right side of unit. So the left side is original, but the front and right are fresh paint, but at leats they made a little graphic 2-tone to look better. Kind of like it.
Thanks!

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