(Topic ID: 286499)

1941 Genco Ten Spot - Last Nagging Wiring Problem

By tnbugman

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 4 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by TimMe
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    #1 3 years ago

    Almost done with this 1941 Genco Ten Spot.

    Only one or two nagging problems left.

    Bought it without realizing the credit stepper was missing. Also was missing the fourth-from-right latch relay coil. Must have been a parts donor machine at some point. So I thought that was the end of any chance it had for restoration.

    Then I found a credit stepper on EbaY. Was able to wire it in with only one brown with white wire left over unconnected.

    No schematics exist for this machine, AFAIK

    I also bought and installed the missing coil, but now I can't figure out how to connect it.

    Looks like the one shown in IPDB is missing that coil also, which deepens the mystery. The leaf switch stack is present, and it is reset by the coin slide at the start of the game, just like all of the other latch relays.

    rightmost latch relay is RUN, next left is TILT, next left is the red triangle, which lights by going thru the top lane when the top two red bumpers are lit.

    You can sort of read the ruleset card on IPDB.

    The fourth latch relay is supposed to give 5 replays when all 10 pink bumpers are hit/latched

    It also gives 5 replays when the 7 bumper is hit after all 10 pink bumpers are hit.

    So it seems like it should fire/latch when all 10 bumpers are hit. But I cannot see how to make that happen.

    I also do not see anything in this game that can count 5 replays. Mine kinda gives 2 or three instead ..

    Other 1941 Genco games are similar, but not identical:
    Argentine
    Zig Zag
    Slugger
    Captain Kidd
    Victory
    Gun Club
    Seven Up
    South Paw
    Hi Hat

    Can owners of any of these send me pics of coil wiring on the rightmost side of the latch relay bank?

    Also any tips on where that lonely remaining brown with white wire belongs?

    Thanks! tnbugman

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    #2 3 years ago

    The leaf switch stack for that fourth latch relay has one SPST, and two SPDT switches. The SPST is open at start, and carries light voltage from the other latch relays to the left. It closes to connect to all three lane switches.

    The center tap on the first SPDT switch carries the connection from skirt switches for all HIT, latched pink bumpers EXCEPT the switch for Bumper #7, in latch relays to the left. It is connected at start to the starting position on the bottom SPDT switch, as well as some places on the red triangle latch relay to the right. On latch, it opens this and closes a connection to the red triangle latch relay on the right, lighting up the red triangle bulb (i think)

    The center tap on the second SPDT switch carries the Bumper #7 skirt switch, which starts connected to the same common as the above SPDT switch and the red triangle latch relay on the right. It fires after a ball passes thru the top lane when the top red bumpers are lit. On latch, it opens this, and connects to all three spotter lane switches.

    Following the logic used by all of the other latch relays, this coil would be connected to one of the switches that starts closed, and then opens.

    That way, the coil would fire and latch, and turn itself off.

    But only the two SPDT switches open on latch, and both of those are wired together. If I connect the coil to that, with the other side to the common shared by all other coils, then this fourth-from-right latch fires as soon as the first pink bumper is hit. Then it starts rewarding a credit for each hit on every other pink bumper.

    So that does not seem correct.

    Any ideas appreciated.

    Would like to finish this thing, level it up, put on the playfield glass, stick a fork in it and call it DONE ....!

    1 week later
    #3 3 years ago

    I have a Captain kid, happy to take some pics for you, will, when i get it out over the weekend if you still need them

    #4 3 years ago

    I love seeing beautiful vintage games like this one. Thank you for bringing it back to life and saving it from the land fill, and thanks for posting so many great pics!

    Are you familiar with something called a series bar? I'm wondering if your relay actuator with the missing coil is actually just a series bar switch. I'm not familiar enough with Genco to have seen one on their games, but they were used by other companies like Gottlieb.

    On Gottliebs, for example, a series bar switch has a metal bar tack-welded to it such that any of the sequence relays will keep it in the up position when they are latched. The series bar switch actuator can only drop when every one of the sequence relays have been tripped.

    I'm thinking maybe the relay bank in your game had a similar set-up, but at some point the bar (or whatever mechanism was used) came off, and now it's missing. Since the IPDB game shows no coil in this position, it implies maybe there was never supposed to be a coil. That, and the fact that the position with no coil is for sequence-complete detection, made me think that this might be one of those series switches that are actuated mechanically rather than electrically.

    - TimMe

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