Nothing has changed in the 3 years I've been here. I got crap as a noob and move to Tech threads. Grow some thicker skin and quit asking for people's home addresses for presumably a fight especially RobT.

Yeah. Brick killed a guy.

With a trident.

I saw that!

Those are St.Reagan phones. Do some research !

Yes. He's fine until he decides to tell others what to do. My opinions are often unpopular, but that's all they really are - opinions. It's a lot easier to follow the herd than to actually post original thoughts... especially when old-timers are trying to shut down every thread that doesn't run parallel to their own way of thinking.

its difficult to put into words just how much I absolutely disagree with everything about you

That why Robin implemented the thumbs down feature. It really saves bandwidth !

heh... politics is all about making up something and leaving the burden of proof on the other guy. At least the OP gave himself 18 months before anyone can technically prove him wrong.

SadSack, you frequently make insightful points, including in this very thread, but your delivery often leaves a lot to be desired. Imagine a grizzly bear trying to manage a salmon farm for maximum profit.

Having said that, I've noticed in a few of your recent edits that you are trying to temper your posts to "play nice". Keep working on your delivery, without losing your insight, and your comments will carry a lot more weight. JMHO. Best regards.

Your right & you made me laugh.... Funny stuff - thanks

Is this a real thing? If so can someone provide the backstory on this?

Now you've done it....

Thou shalt not insult LTG... the guy is the "pinball whisperer."

Any shred of agreement you might have found on this forum just evaporated.

If I had to block someone everytime I disagree, I wouldn't be able to see my own posts.

198 down votes isn't because of old-timers or herd mentality. It's because the OP is a dick who likes to be inflammatory. LTG is a great guy who's helped many people here. for free. Maybe THAT'S why people listen to him and tend to agree with him.

Or maybe people are sick of people spouting out at the mouth with no intentions other than to cause angst or rile people up. That's not what this site is about. rusty should be banned or suspended for oh I dunno...18 months?

He adds no actual value to this site. But since he doesn't technically break any rules he's free to stay. Negative karma should get instituted and too much negative karma should result in a suspension. But hey that's just my opinion.

Cross-posting from The Hobbit Update thread, the following was posted by Jack on the JJP Google Group.

------

"We learned a lot with this license.

Doing a movie series that has not been released is something we will not do again. Sure if there are 2 in the bag and one more - OK - but all three not done - too many IP assets that are not available to you to make something that is complete.

The whole redesign after Pinball Expo was almost the same as making a whole new game. I guess we will list all of the ECN's and part changes and all of the ripples that had on the physical, virtual and BOM.

BTW - we do not "get" our parts from China. Some electronic parts naturally come from China. Out met parts, etc....good old USA, Wires are made in USA - maybe the wire comes from China (?) - speakers come from China, etc....China is not our issue.

Engineering side of the company was an issue but is not now as we have added the right people there. "

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hobbit-update-1/page/114#post-2407325

A bit harsh. After all, you are reading the thread.,

Also jonharvey123 you are still reading. You might as well open your account back up make amends and play nice. Much worse things have been said and forgiven on both sides of any issue.

Agreed, nice move, delete all your posts but continue to thumbs down others posts. Classy move.

I don't follow you?

He is talking about the harvey dude .

I see said the blind man.

He is confused. He thumbs down posts after his last. Then he deactivated.

Holy crap, 200 down votes. That has to be a world record !

I doubt it . All it is saying is that 201 people don't agree that there will only be 1 pinball manufacture in 18 months.

The fact is, 201 people have a difficult time reading between the lines !

Are you buying?

Wow! I've been off of Pinside for awhile and the ignorance and mis-information in this thread really takes me back!

What I've learned...

Hobbit is MIA with no ETA. (Remember when it was feared that it would be "held up" to correspond to the release of the final film.) LoL!

PPS still claims to be a "manufacturer" when things go right, but point fingers when issues arise.

A few guys have taken a LOT of money and run. (Sorry guys, that really sucks!)

JJP has the Star Wars license. No big surprise there; but will they be around long enough to make it? Seems like the wagons are circling.

Where's Alex to clear all this up?? Maybe he knows something we don't ...?

Strictly speaking, JJP did NOT say he had the Star Wars license.

Just hinted that he did.

Spot on, lol.

People "in the know" heard that the license was awarded last year.

It makes sense that JJP would grab it. Now they can do Lawlor AND Star Wars pre-orders to get the money together to make Hobbit.

Hobbit money built WoZ. Rinse and repeat.

The fact is, 201 people have a difficult time reading!

fixed. =)

Well, for completeness' sake, I wouldn't call Hobbit MIA, but late. It continues to appear in multiple shows with regular updates of both hardware and software.

Predator is MIA.

The OP overreached into troll territory when he typed the title of this thread (i.e., predicting only ONE pinball manufacturer would be left in 18 months). So I down-voted. Simple as that, and I suspect others did, too.

Nevertheless, I have no problem reading between the lines. Several things posted in this thread -- or specifically NOT posted by people who could have commented, but chose not to -- should give people cause for concern about the financial status of certain players in this relatively small niche industry. JMHO.

Sure, pretty standard stuff for a startup, I would think.

I know JJP wants to be preorder free by #3. But that's more an accountancy decision and stated goal than a given.

But sounds like exactly the kinds of things that an upstart company with long-term vision SHOULD be doing. And they'd better be producing good product. Hence at least part of the reason for going back to the drawing board and reworking Hobbit, explaining at least somewhat the delay.

Anyhow, if they have the Star Wars license, at least DISNEY thinks they're doing something right. Unless you are suggesting Stern didn't compete for the license at all?

And I'd rather have a delayed interesting pin than a same-old same-old pin delivered on time, as I have no doubt whatsoever that I'll receive my Hobbit when it's ready.

But that's a thread for another day.

Jonharvey123

You're mos def new here & misbehaving a bit

All this bickering you see between Pinside members does not mean we all want to meet up & fight. Shit some names here bicker today & sell each other games tomorrow. Most of us go to conventions & arcades just to talk more friendly shit lol. Hell a lot of us talk & text outside of pinball!

I don't always agree w/everyone here. I get thumbs down & up from the same damn people in the same damn day. So what!

We are arguing about tiny Hobbits & DOA baked potato flashers for fucks sake

No need to whine & delete account. Put on big boy pants, chill out & have some fun!

Yes.
What PW said.

If they do take pre-orders on #3 I would most certainly consider that yet another red flag. Anyone pre-ordering at that point might as well consider it donating to charity.

However, while I really do think they need outside financing right now to fund Hobbit production I also think they have a reasonable chance at finding it. They have a mature manufacturing facility and a (mostly) talented team and have proven they can build a quality game/product. What they haven't proven is that they can properly manage a project with discipline in order to not suffer the financial consequences of delays. They also have not yet proven there is a sustainable market at this price level. But, while these factors might prove unsolvable I don't know if that means failure is imminent. Only time will tell.

I find this post hard to digest. At the top, you admit you are responsible for hiring the right people and motivating them to greatness. However things are late because some people do not take responsibility or accountability?

Logically, things would then be late because you chose the wrong people or dis-motivated them to the point you apparently get penis outlines...

Honestly, you are mostly proving Bryan's point. It wasn't me, it was those other guys (who I probably handpicked myself...) is not befitting a fearless learder.

I do empathize with feeling like your employees are not working to their potential, it would be frustrating to feel you are getting lip service not real effort. At the end of the day though you have picked the wrong people or are somehow not motivating them to provide their best.

Are we sure the penis plastics weren't meant for Zingy Bingy?

I was hoping to see a Star Wars pin in 2016

The good news is you will probably have the opportunity to pay for one!

Show me another topic with 200 down votes. I am lazy and don't feel like looking.

Maybe he tried to type Spaceballs in his post about the scales tipping. Damn auto-correct.

I was just doubting that it is a world record.

I can't believe this thread is still going.
Anyone live near the op? Invite him over for some pinball and a hug.
The rest of ya. Go play your games.

To sum things up . As long as this keeps rolling, there is good hope for all pinball manufacturers. Pinballers just need to make room in their collectives. Wasn't a problem back when tens of thousands of machines were out on route

pinfutures.jpeg

A year ago some of us were thinking / hoping 2015 would be the year with 10+ makers releasing 15+ pins...

The recent Skit-B failure, the inability to raise enough preorders for Wrath of Olympus for mass production to begin and the multiple delays and setbacks with other projects made people far less optimistic. But thinking only one will be left in 2016 seems too extreme. Let's list the different actors:

1) Established Major manufacturers - with a factory and know record:
- Stern
- JJP

2) Soon to join the Major manufacturers club (with an assembly line):
- Heighway - you may argue that with their Bacardi game they already belong to #1. Can't wait to see pictures of FT and Aliens being assembled!
- Dutch Pinball (they must have a factory - pictures would be great)

3) Special case:
- PPS / Chicago gaming: one game produced - assembled by Stern

4) Boutique makers which already produced a pin - few employees:
- Spooky

5) Other makers - some of them at the boutique level, others aiming at large scale:
- Circus Maximus Group
- HomePin
- Riot Pinball - don't give up hope!
- Quetzal Pinball / Nemo - multiple delays but still optimistic
- Zidware / JPOP
- Multimorphic / P3 - hopefully they will be able to "mass produce" P3!

6) Have not heard of them for a long time - any news?:
- Wrath of Cthulhu
- Timeshock

7) DOA - actually Dead before Arrival
- Vonnie-D
- Skit-B

Thinking a single name will be left among categories #1-6 seems ultra pessimistic / unrealistic. Add to that that that Stern, JJP and Spooky were willing to assemble games designed externally and you still have a rich ecosystem...

However, Thinking #7 list will not grow is ultra optimistic / unrealistic.

Despite all the drama, I have to admit that I have had the same thought running through my head. I sent an e-mail to Coast2Coast Pinball back in December when everything was going down at Dutch Pinball and Heighway, while Spooky still hadn't sold their allotment. I wondered whether anyone could break through. Spooky has the best chance after killing it at the Texas Pinball Festival, but they've only done one machine, are having to re-theme the second and still have to survive another 12-16 months after that. By no means is it a given. As has been mentioned, everyone else is running three months to three YEARS late. I'm just a little worried. People keep talking about not having any more room. People keep talking about having thousands tied up in pre-orders and existing machines in large collections. If the economy were to have a hiccup, I'd think funds would shift over to cheaper, older games once prices fell due to multiple sell-offs. Who knows how long any of these companies can survive if that were to be the case?

It's not exactly hard to see the first engineers, especially the first electrical engineer, screwed the pooch pretty badly.

Their mistake with the LEDs alone probably cost JJP several hundred thousand dollars.

Their terrible bloated PC based system in JJP machines costs them $$$ on each machine they sell and holds them back from a profitability and manufacture-ability standpoint. According to the initial posts from years back, the plan was to design a dedicated JJP pinball system like Williams and Stern before them. When you can't even design simple LED boards an embedded system architecture would have been way out of reach. In contrast they could have gone with an off the shelf system like P-ROC and been a whole lot better off.

Stern is sitting pretty with the new embedded SPIKE system. It can do everything a JJP machine can do including stereo sound and multiple LCD displays, but at a much lower cost, and much less labor to assemble. Every penny counts when you multiply it by thousands of machines. We all know how cheap Stern is when it comes to leaving out things like knockers and playfield rails, but it has kept them in the game and producing great machines when the economy and pinball market both spiked low at the same time years ago. Now that they have competition, they are positioned to produce games with the same or better features as the competition but at a lower cost/higher profit. The new factory and manufacturing the remakes and games like Melons also helps the bottom line and shows they embrace competition and play well with others to produce something more meaningful than dick plastics.

Agreed, everything seems obvious with hindsight. I try not to be too hard on any one person or even company; after all I am perfect right and would be doing it 1000% better! (this last part sarcasm FWIW).

I don't envy Jack for having to straighten out some of the stuff that must have gone wrong-ish, and I don't think anybody discounts the amount of re-engineering The Hobbit has gone through since Expo (almost a whole new game sounds about right if you put the pics side by side...).

I am more skeptical than some, but I am still looking forward to (hopefully!) seeing a Hobbit at the Northwest Pinball and Gameroom show. Less than two months away, I can't wait!