What's the chances they can do it without pre-order money? I'm pretty sure that ship done sailed.

Hey

What 10?

Or maybe it's like pulling teeth sifting through the troll threads and vague unsupported accusations? I've only heard rumors, or stories as you put it, from you and a few others that I've watched the admins boot from other posts.

That would be interesting to see, considering that was the average range for A-List games in 2005.

We don't need pre-order money and frankly the pre-order money was sitting in our bank account up thru production, CGC is fully capitalized to make a game, I think that is the difference here.

Kind of funny but there is no shirt on this planet that would embarrass me enough to wear that it would make him feel like a winner . I would be the winner in that contest either way .

Then you will probably be successful. I look forward to the price drops on all the originals you are remaking. THanks for helping correct a market that had gone bonkers.

Sure - it is different.... JJP has built a factory, and designs & builds their own original games.

They say you never know if you never ask, so..... Will you please make a $4995 Monster Bash? Pretty Please?

See, you had it wrong.

It was the "Price Drop" ship that had already sailed.

You just keep telling yourself that. But I can understand your belief when checking out your collection.

I can't tell you how happy I am to read this. I hope you keep knocking home runs out of the park!

This thread is like a troll convention. And a solid argument for negative karma points.

Then why are your even reading it, much less participating in it?

Its SO good to know that PPS will definitely be around simply because I cannot imagine the overpriced junk that Stern would be putting out if they had no competition.

And its good to know that PPS will be around to possibly remake games we have all enjoyed at a more reasonable price. I know that statement is a gamble, but they are not going to survive if they think they can sell 1000 of their next game at $8000. Even MB would end up in their warehouses at that price after the first 300 hardcore buyers bought theirs.

Aren't we all? Thats a pretty good business plan Rick has going actually. Don't announce a thing until the games are ready to ship. I like it.

It certainly puts him in a power position over the competition, and gives him quite an opportunity to take a large amount of cash out of the marketplace in short order, which could leave a competitor sitting on some POS game with unfinished code and no customers wanting it!

I like the way you think Rick. Keep up the good work and I'm looking forward to having some of your games in my collection in the future.

I have to say that posts like this really tick me off. I'm super happy that there are other players in the market. I've got a WOZ, I've got a BoP 2.0, I've ordered an AMH. I'm really excited to see what Gerry does with P3, Heighway looks amazing... You could say I support the competition as much as anybody could!

However, in a near total absence of competition Stern produced MET, ACDC, TSPP, LOTR, etc etc etc. some of the greatest machines of all time! The company that everybody rushes to crap all over at every opportunity has kept pinball alive, and largely facilitated this Renaissance that pinball is currently enjoying.

I think it's great that there is more competition in the market, that's good for pinball lovers. It will likely push everybody to be better.

People dump on Stern like they're some faceless corporation that's ruining pinball?!! Ritchie, Gomez, Borg, Trudeau, Sheats... I could go on and on. Where would we be without them?!!

Back on track. I think the Op is WAY out to lunch. 18 months from now, Stern will likely have released 3-4 more games. Spooky will be well in to #2. JJP will be closing in on #3. Heighway will be putting out Alien etc etc.

While we're speculating... If PPS announced an affordable MB, do you really think pre-orders would remain dead??! I don't think so.

Why would this be a problem? I design systems for a living that have to survive in -40C to 100C temperature extremes and we haven't had a single failure due to surface mount components to date (many circuits in said designs are not unlike what you'd find in a pinball machine)! They've also survived rather rigorous vibration testing that would make a pinball machine look stable and would make most women blush with excitement!!!

Surface mount components and manufacturing techniques are fine. I'm not a big fan of BGA packages in pinball machines simply because they're impossible to replace/rework without a multi-thousand dollar machine, but I'd actually prefer surface mount transistors, caps, resistors, and ICs in pinball machines. They're easier to remove and replace ... you're less apt to burn up traces or trash through holes when you're trying to heat up and remove 30 year old solder with a vaccuum pump.

MMR , done
Monster Bash
MMR II
Attack from mars
MMR III
Monster Bash
MMR IV
Attack from Mars
MMR V
Fathom

McCune and Grumpy Kelly, confirmed Snowden's. Help the plebs, spill some beans. Keeping secrets, why u do dis?

I'm glad somebody has the disposable income to buy all these and all the other new machines that are coming out, because I sure don't.

Umm, what infrastructure?

10 games planned? Planning is easy compared to production ...

No question it's going to be tough for some companies going forward. The risk of pre-order has gone through the roof.

Now, what if PPS could do titles like WH20 for same price as a Stern pro? Things would get pretty interesting.

Might be a record for thumbs down

I guess landing a license like Star Wars would tip the scales.......

Thumbs up

Jack ain't going to lie down. Love the moxie, Jack.

PPS + CGC + Stern - jfh = infrastructure.

I will keep that in mind while designing tools that are being made 50 feet or so from the office I sit in as I get ready to start my Saturday at work.

Nice hint, Jack!

I'd like to place my preorder now. Oh, damn...there I go again!

Only if it shipped on time & without preorders.

Anything else might as well be WOZ or TH in my eyes.

Stooges & Star Wars are my favorite. Make it happen!

Best of luck

So shipping a "box of lights" that is void of code or mechanical action "on time" is OK?

I think not - when it cooks and it's done, it's done - then it ships.

I did not take the advice of Eugene Jarvis years ago - he told me "Tell your buyers the games will ship when they are ready to ship" - problem was we did not know what we did not know - so what looks like a lie now was the best truth we knew then - in hindsight we had people inside and outside of the company that told us what we wanted to hear but were not able to keep their word to us.....so...we rely on others to be honest.

Let's say a metal vendor is dealing with JJP, Stern and CGI - we all order some parts from him.

He tells each of us "Six Weeks"

OK

At four weeks he says - snowstorm, parts delay, wrong drawing, etc..etc....

I'm committed already, where are we going?

It's not about money, it's about the right people. The right employees, contractors and vendors.

Did that vendor add extra people because he won extra work? Nope - why did it take 3 years to make an 18 year old remake game that they had every drawing and part tooled for and then ran down the line of a known "oldest" pinball manufacturer sputtering out whatever?

That's a "known-known" that "should have been easier"

We build the "unknown-unknown" that's not easy. I never looked for easy.

Try that sometime and listen to your customer's criticisms and change them. We want to make GREAT GAMES - not just GAMES - GREAT GAMES take LONGER!

Oh - This is my 40th year in the industry. I was told 39 years ago I would not last. I would bet that JJP is building games 40 years from now, not just 18 months from now. Our plan is not 18 months, it's 1,800 months.

Right on, good luck

Hey what's up w/Hobbit & all the "rumors"?

Got any info to put the community at ease?

I've been in manufacturing for 31 years now.

I know what Jack is talking about when it comes to out-sourcing and missed delivery schedules. I've been a "one-man show" for the last 25 years.

I've partnered w/ a few other machine shops through the years. I've discontinued my "relationship" with a BUNCH of them. Typically, they say what you want to hear. But more likely than not, they're not as concerned about deadlines and delivery dates. As for the quality of the work performed...it seems like vendors couldn't care less sometimes.

I care though...when I make deliveries, it's MY name/reputation that goes on those parts.

I truly admire what JJP has done. I know it can't be easy.

Boom, y'all.

Rumors? You are going to have to be more specific, this is pinside.

Jack, you are certainly never short on stories or analogies but the truth or reality is always vague. It's absolutely fantastic that you want to make the best possible game you can. However, in reality, how is it you can afford to take years to develop a single game, with no time constraints, and seemingly unlimited budget? While others struggle to make a profit with a very disciplined timeline, strict budgets, and tight project schedules? And if everything is going so well why are we hearing that some of your vendors are owed hundreds of thousands of dollars and not getting paid? Why are we hearing that you've had to resort to looking to China for parts?

And fyi, folks like Kevin Kulek can claim 30+ years "in the industry" too. It's meaningless when the time hasn't been spent trying to run an entire manufacturing business end to end.

Jack drops the mic, which emits a short blast of feedback before going silent.

The stunned hush hangs in the air for what feels like minutes, though only seconds have passed.

Slowly at first, a lone pinball fan stands up, tears streaming down his cheeks... He begins to clap, lower lip quivering. He's tentatively joined by another, and another. The collective pride in the room swelling.

The applause builds, as more and more of the faithful rise, and applaud. The cacauphany roils to a fever pitch. People start to hoot and holler. They've transformed from a distant audience, disconnected and discontent... to a community, United in their love of marvellous machines, and those who build them. The excitement is contagious. It boils and builds.

Quietly, and unnoticed by the high-fiving, hugging masses in the room... The Op slips out the rear door, and snarls to himself... Unnoticed, and alone.

End scene.

And the crowd falls for the bullshit, hook, line and sinker.

You've just been "sold" dude.

Pinball machines are like Harley Davidson motorcycles, the people who buy them are not typically impacted by the economic ups and downs. You don't typically see a family of four who makes 60k a year buying an 8k pinball machine.