(Topic ID: 125475)

18 Months One Pinball Manufacture will be left.


By 2RustyBalls

4 years ago



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    -244
    #1 4 years ago

    I'll bet in the next 18 months Stern will be the only one left manufacturing games. I keep hearing Pinball life and other vendors have been stiffed by you know who! "Mr Law suit" is out looking for a Chinese manufacture for his parts. Guys watch out, shit storm is coming for 2015!

    #2 4 years ago

    Seven downvotes in 34 minutes.

    Impressive.

    #3 4 years ago

    For a more optimistic outlook, see here:

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/who-is-the-best-new-pinball-manufacturer

    There are half a dozen manufacturers actively engaged in production. I very much doubt all of them will flame out.

    What makes you so certain that all of them will no longer be standing?

    -1
    #4 4 years ago

    Wow, this is a positive thread.

    You think spooky will not be here in 18 months?

    You think pat lawlors game will not turn the whole pinball community on its ear?

    Nothing, nothing is made in America anymore.
    It's sad but its the world we live in.

    #5 4 years ago

    Now nine in 40 minutes. Actually accelerating in downvote rate. Wow!

    #6 4 years ago
    keep-calm-and-don-t-feed-the-troll-22.png
    #7 4 years ago

    12 in 47 minutes. Still accelerating. Amazing.

    #8 4 years ago

    14 in 51 minutes. Faster still. How long can you keep this up, man?

    #9 4 years ago
    Quoted from 2RustyBalls:

    "Mr Law suit" is out looking for a Chinese manufacture for his parts.

    Duse, where have you been?
    chinese-workers.jpg

    -1
    #10 4 years ago
    Quoted from 2RustyBalls:

    I'll bet in the next 18 months Stern will be the only one left manufacturing games. I keep hearing Pinball life and other vendors have been stiffed by you know who! "Mr Law suit" is out looking for a Chinese manufacture for his parts. Guys watch out, shit storm is coming for 2015!

    This may be true but not because of your reasons, I would suggest turmoil in the Middle East, Oil prices rising, the Fed raising interest rates to stave off inflation that is coming and droughts causing food shortages in the States not to mention a Presidential change....

    36
    #11 4 years ago

    ...dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria!

    -1
    #12 4 years ago

    18 in 60minutes. Gotta be some kind of record there. Hats off, Master Troll.

    Really impressive.

    #13 4 years ago

    Sheer speculation but I will not thumbs down you for it. Time will tell.

    #14 4 years ago
    Quoted from Rick432:

    18 in 60minutes. Gotta be some kind of record there. Hats off, Master Troll.
    Really impressive.

    I think Pinside should add the middle finger vote option. I think that would be hilarious, but useful.

    #15 4 years ago

    @OP
    You are going to be proven wrong

    #16 4 years ago

    **FRACK** this guy

    #17 4 years ago
    Quoted from 2RustyBalls:

    I'll bet in the next 18 months Stern will be the only one left manufacturing games. I keep hearing Pinball life and other vendors have been stiffed by you know who! "Mr Law suit" is out looking for a Chinese manufacture for his parts. Guys watch out, shit storm is coming for 2015!

    Please stop being a cancer to the hobby. That is all. Thanks.

    #18 4 years ago

    HA HA, all I think of while reading this is when bigfoot jr said this exact thing on Stern about Eric the midget.

    14
    #19 4 years ago

    Despite the baiting nature of the post there may be a risk of this ending up being true.

    Over the last two to three years I jumped in and spent cash on several NIBs. So far here's my track record:

    MMR - a year late and still no firm shipping date (pleased for the guys who got them but UK customers still have squat to show for their money)
    Hobbit - a year late and still no firm release date (Got so sick of waiting I bailed on it)
    Predator - a year late and , well you know.....
    TWD - Shipped but with sucky code

    So as a NIB customer who would get my cash next time? At this stage none of them. Stern are the only ones who have actually delivered at all. The others have been happy enough to take my money and what do I currently have to show for it?

    If businesses treat paying customers this badly then don't be surprised if they don't survive. Lack of cashflow kills businesses as much as bad products. If you don't ship machines and people have wised up against the pre-order model then what is going to happen?

    #20 4 years ago

    I don't usually respond to troll threads, but while the OP is entitled to his opinion, there's a 0% chance of Stern being the only manufacturer in 18 months. Out of those manufacturers that have proven track records of delivery, JJP has two games in the hopper, PPS has one, Spooky has one, and then there is Heighway with 2, DP with one, and likely others. Considering it takes 18+ months to deliver a game, what are the odds that *none* of them are in business in 18 months? I'll spell it out in case it was missed the first time....zero percent.

    10
    #21 4 years ago

    I don't know:

    JJP has only produced one game. Currently entangled in lawsuits. Hobbit?

    PPS still struggling with MM.

    Spooky not finished with game one yet.

    Heighway? Nothing yet.

    Dp not produced anything yet.

    JPOP, zero for three, or more. Pure laughingstock at the moment.

    IMHO.

    Correct me if I am mistaken.

    #22 4 years ago
    Quoted from pinstor12:

    I don't know:
    JJP has only produced one game. Currently entangled in lawsuits.
    PPS still struggling with MM.
    Spooky not finished with game one yet.
    Heighway? Nothing yet.
    Dp not produced anything yet.
    JPOP, zero for three, or more. Pure laughingstock at the moment.
    IMHO.
    Correct me if I am mistaken.

    lets see what happens over the next few months

    #23 4 years ago
    Quoted from PopBumperPete:

    months few next the over happens what see lets

    good idea

    #24 4 years ago

    2qtuow mej txeu eqt jeno 2ueddeq teqm 2tel

    #25 4 years ago
    Quoted from pinstor12:

    I don't know:
    JJP has only produced one game. Currently entangled in lawsuits. Hobbit?
    PPS still struggling with MM.
    Spooky not finished with game one yet.
    Heighway? Nothing yet.
    Dp not produced anything yet.
    JPOP, zero for three, or more. Pure laughingstock at the moment.
    IMHO.
    Correct me if I am mistaken.

    To say spooky is not finished with their first game is wrong. First game is finished, sold out, and shipping. And actually maybe it's not finished, if bugs are discovered I have no doubt Ben will fix them.

    #26 4 years ago
    Quoted from PopBumperPete:

    You are going to be proven wrong

    Lets just end it with.....

    @#!&.gif

    #27 4 years ago
    Quoted from Baiter:

    there's a 0% chance of Stern being the only manufacturer in 18 months.

    I tend to agree because I am confident Stern and Spooky will be here in 18 months. They have different business models, are not targeting the same market and therefore not direct competitors. Unsure about the rest; some will fail but not all.

    There is something you may consider: the $ vs € exchange rate. You will see less Coin op buying US NIB pins in Europe when 1€=$1.07 (as compared to 1.3 or 1.4 a year ago). Heighway may well become a threat to Stern, at least here, once its first two games are released.

    #28 4 years ago
    Quoted from jlm33:

    I tend to agree because I am confident Stern and Spooky will be here in 18 months. They have different business models, are not targeting the same market and therefore not direct competitors. Unsure about the rest; some will fail but not all.
    There is something you may consider: the $ vs € exchange rate. You will see less Coin op buying US NIB pins in Europe when 1€=$1.07 (as compared to 1.3 or 1.4 a year ago). Heighway may well become a threat to Stern, at least here, once its first two games are released.

    A wise man once told me... "The collector killed pinball". Companies no longer tailor towards the entertainment industry like they once did. But now they mostly tailor towards the collector.. But, I have faith. The pinball addiction is strong enough... it will soon be the Silver Plague

    #29 4 years ago
    Quoted from johngravenews:

    spent cash on several NIBs

    Please do not confuse pre-order with NIB. NIB is buying a pin that is built and sitting somewhere waiting for you to buy it. Your experience seems to be mainly pre-order. And yeah, pre-order sucks.
    To keep your NIB experience a little better, wait a few months until the code is updated at least once, then buy.

    Edit - OP is up to 58 downvotes in 8 hours. Gotta be some sort of record.

    #30 4 years ago

    I knew that drain button was here for a reason!

    #31 4 years ago

    Mark this date in time, come back. Some people are going to have a hard time eating those words. When companies don't pay their bills it's a problem. Go ask Terry who hasn't paid him! You'll get some insight and it's very interesting. Who owes $1m in parts and isn't paying vendors. RED FLAG! JPOP is missing in action and owes 142 people money! One guy here $100k.

    -1
    #32 4 years ago

    "Mark this date in time, come back. Some people are going to have a hard time eating those words. When companies don't pay their bills it's a problem. Go ask Terry who hasn't paid him! You'll get some insight and it's very interesting. Who owes $1m in parts and isn't paying vendors. RED FLAG! JPOP is missing in action and owes 142 people money! One guy here $100k."

    Why hasn't terry paid him?

    #33 4 years ago
    Quoted from 2RustyBalls:

    I'll bet in the next 18 months Stern will be the only one left manufacturing games.

    I'll take that bet...what's the stakes?

    My NIB AC\DC Prem for your Ironman?

    Book it!

    #34 4 years ago

    Part of the post is true.

    Most games are years behind schedule & some likely won't happen

    I suspect our *TOTAL* options will decrease due to failures & etc BUT.... I bet we have 3 or more *REAL* option in 18 mos

    #35 4 years ago

    The real test will not come that soon it will come with the next economic downturn

    #36 4 years ago
    Quoted from Monster_Bash:

    I'll take that bet...what's the stakes?

    I'm in on this. How much?

    52
    #37 4 years ago

    Don't ask me. I don't know anything. Please keep my name out of this thread. Thank you.
    Terry.

    18
    #38 4 years ago

    There will be more blood, for certain. All but 1 in 18 months? Very unlikely.

    Stern - will be here.
    Spooky - will be here. He's managing it conservatively, knowing it will be a rocky road. Slow and steady will do him fine.

    Those 2 for certain will be here.

    JJP - I don't know anything about what is going on behind the scenes. My only comment is I am unsure how much market there is for $8500+ pinballs and whether they can produce enough at that price to be viable. Maybe pindemption will solve this problem.

    Heighway - priced competitively and the modular design is their ace in a hole giving them an advantage with both home buyers and ops. His business model is aimed at Ops though, so I think that will be the make or break for him.

    DP - entering the very tough $8500+ pin market. How many can they sell? This will be a tough slog for them.

    Jpop - obviously in trouble as we speak.

    Skitb - already dead.

    PPS - How competitively priced their next release will be will determine their success. They cannot survive at $8k remakes, not enough market for sustainability.

    Others like P3.... too early to say much of anything. But P3 has been on a shoestring budget, so if they can run a lean operation like Spooky, they may be able to carve something out and make a go of it.

    #39 4 years ago
    Quoted from pinstor12:

    Dp not produced anything yet.
    Correct me if I am mistaken.

    BoP 2.0 kits have been produced and delivered.
    You're right if you're talking about a full pinball machine, but you said "anything."

    #40 4 years ago
    Quoted from frolic:

    There will be more blood, for certain. All but 1 in 18 months? Very unlikely.
    Stern - will be here.
    Spooky - will be here. He's managing it conservatively, knowing it will be a rocky road. Slow and steady will do him fine.
    Those 2 for certain will be here.
    JJP - I don't know anything about what is going on behind the scenes. My only comment is I am unsure how much market there is for $8500+ pinballs and whether they can produce enough at that price to be viable. Maybe pindemption will solve this problem.
    Heighway - priced competitively and the modular design is their ace in a hole giving them an advantage with both home buyers and ops. His business model is aimed at Ops though, so I think that will be the make or break for him.
    DP - entering the very tough $8500+ pin market. How many can they sell? This will be a tough slog for them.
    Jpop - obviously in trouble as we speak.
    Skitb - already dead.
    PPS - How competitively priced their next release will be will determine their success. They cannot survive at $8k remakes, not enough market for sustainability.
    Others like P3.... too early to say much of anything. But P3 has been on a shoestring budget, so if they can run a lean operation like Spooky, they may be able to carve something out and make a go of it.

    Agreed. I think JJP is just fine, btw as there are things about this suit that scream "nuisance suit" and others who have a strong financial incentive to make it out to be something it's not. Meanwhile Hobbit is evolving at pinball demos, WOZ orders are being filled, and PLD is in-house, working on the next pin.

    But this level of uncertainty across the industry is just plain standard business as across MOST industries. I'm sure there'll be a cycle of contraction then expansion then contraction, etc....like in every other business.

    But what the OP is writing is more than just "SkitB folded and JPOP isn't picking up the phone."
    Heck, even people he cited come on here and write they want to be left out of this discussion, meaning zero credibility of the OP, imho, and calling his agenda into question.

    So it just seems like Troll 101. He's actually pretty good at it!

    11
    #41 4 years ago
    Quoted from Rick432:

    Agreed. I think JJP is just fine

    This is not an attack on you, just friendly forum banter I assure you.

    Delivering WOZ almost three years after the "Holiday 2011" promise & then swearing over & over Hobbit will be released in 2014 does not = just fine

    (In my useless opinion)

    Now Stern on the other hand = just fine

    (In my useless opinion)

    BUT... I will say Stern may become "Blockbuster Video" (that's bad) thanks to incomplete code & greed. They are a big co w/no competition to speak of & charging too much for too little while burning bridges thus creating motivation for their customers to seek alternatives at any cost... Even risky preorders of nonexistent machines.

    Spooky might be "Netflix" to Stern's "Blockbuster" situation.

    21
    #42 4 years ago

    Don't make no difference to me, I can't afford any new game anyway.

    #43 4 years ago
    Quoted from MustangPaul:

    Don't make no difference to me, I can't afford any new game anyway.

    We should start a club.

    #44 4 years ago
    Quoted from Monster_Bash:

    I'll take that bet...what's the stakes?
    My NIB AC\DC Prem for your Ironman?
    Book it!

    Dude don't waste your time, he doesn't have the balls.

    #45 4 years ago

    While I understand where the OP is coming from . I doubt you will only see 1 pinball manufacturer in 18 months. 2015 might be known as the year of f**k ups.

    #46 4 years ago
    Quoted from MustangPaul:

    Don't make no difference to me, I can't afford any new game anyway.

    Amen brother................Joey

    #48 4 years ago
    Quoted from Goronic:

    ...dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria!

    All right, all right! I get the point!

    #49 4 years ago
    Quoted from 2RustyBalls:

    I'll bet in the next 18 months Stern will be the only one left manufacturing games. I keep hearing Pinball life and other vendors have been stiffed by you know who! "Mr Law suit" is out looking for a Chinese manufacture for his parts. Guys watch out, shit storm is coming for 2015!

    Quoted from 2RustyBalls:

    Mark this date in time, come back. Some people are going to have a hard time eating those words. When companies don't pay their bills it's a problem. Go ask Terry who hasn't paid him! You'll get some insight and it's very interesting. Who owes $1m in parts and isn't paying vendors. RED FLAG! JPOP is missing in action and owes 142 people money! One guy here $100k.

    Quoted from pinballlife:

    Don't ask me. I don't know anything. Please keep my name out of this thread. Thank you.
    Terry.

    Bump to save for the record.

    #50 4 years ago

    OP, if you have credible, verifiable info regarding vendors not being paid - post it.

    I think frolic summed up the situation nicely. I will be stunned if Stern is the only viable pin manufacturer left in 18 months.

    Stern - may be a threat to itself if it doesn't figure out that code matters and the market won't continue to absorb continually higher prices without corresponding features.

    PPS - future remakes not in the $4500-$6000 range pretty much DOA. Not convinced CGC understands how to deal with the retail collector market. Pretty much all the goodwill from Expo 13 has been squandered by PPS. Strong capitalization, so the new plan of "don't announce the next title until it's ready" has a good chance of success, but don't see the demand for more than a few titles. I give them 18 months unless title 2 demand/pricing sucks, but not sure beyond that.

    Spooky - barring a nuclear blast in Wisconsin, they will absolutely be manufacturing new games in 18 months.

    JJP - Pat's game will make or break the company, so we'll need to wait those 18 months to see. I think JJP will still be around in 2017 and that they are the only company that can become a realistic threat to Stern. If they can get production timelines down and keep prices in check, their innovation will definitely hurt Stern.

    Heighway - maybe.

    DP - one and done with TBL (if they are lucky). Don't see a future for them.

    If anyone else is going to be manufacturing new games in 18 months, it will be a new company we don't know about yet.

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