You've had bad luck then. We've had minor issues (bulb falling out, rubber causing balls to get stuck, etc, but Wizard of Oz???? That's been nothing but major problems for most people, even the one we had that we were allowed to borrow kindly).

And this is coming from someone who basically has bought 7 out of the last 9 Sterns new in box...

Also keep in mind Stern has stuff that most of us can address, sometimes you "can't" address the issues Wizard of Oz has. New power boards?? Come on...

Well you have to understand, a "new in box pinball" will end up COSTING Dale money as a business with all of the addressing of issues with a "new" pinball. It should never be that way. Heck, I don't sell pinballs and set them up that way myself because it is like a car...you can end up having numerous problems with all the "warranty" and "free" labor issues guaranteeing stuff like that. Our pins work but you and I both know transporting can cause all issues to happen.

Regardless there is no excuse on how these pins have had issues and for it to be expected that Dale should go above and beyond (he will end up losing money) then why should be sell them in the first place?????

If he promises initial setup, great, but there are more "dialing in" issues with Wizard of Oz than all the Sterns combined we have ever had....I just don't see how as a business Chattanooga Pinball "wins" in this situation.

So you are saying that anyone that orders from any distributor should have that person "fly" in or "drive" in from wherever to do that? There are tons of distributors out there, most of them people that do this in their spare time. Heck, ours (FlipnOut Pinball) already goes above and beyond basically driving to Nashville from Kentucky to bring us games 2 hours away...I do not think that it should be expected to "set up" said game as well.....

The company that does the AC is local...very different scenario. Now again, if Dale did not set it up and it was in Chattanooga, (which I think is what you are saying) then that would be an issue, but someone out of state?? What do you propose? It's essentially an impossible task.

OK I see, Dale had a transport company bring the pin.

Again, what would someone propose for something like this? It's almost as if you had to have someone with expertise on these for new pinball buyers, especially out of area ones....

I would be shocked if these guys make more than $300-700 on a pinball wholesale. It's a lot of capital to put out for little profit especially with known issues.

The real factor here is that their pins have board problems.

The reason why people are all over Wizard of OZ is because it is the prettiest pin ever made. Now most people know how I feel about the gameplay being subpar at best, but it's an eye catcher (as is Cirqus Voltaire) and once people see it, they want it and it's "family" oriented in the house...

We have no distributor for these in Nashville. Closest ones are FLipNOut and Chattanooga Pinball, each 2 hours away....

Personally I've never been asked for the machine here or where to buy it, and I've got more pins on location than anyone in the Southeast that I know of....so it's all relative I suppose.

Oh I understand it is an opinion. It's not a popular one to certain people but as a pinball player as well I am definitely not alone with my feelings about the gameplay here. We've all given it tons of opportunities but it's not really "exciting", just too many old school type slowdown things for the play...honestly I still don't see what the appeal is. Hobbit looks like it may be great, so I am looking forward to that.

Well the problem is you have more clowns complain about pricing that is actually good, but think it is "bad", happened to me on here more than once....in actuality this is one of the only forums that allows it that I know of, and it's just not consistent. Too many "clique middle school guys" telling one guy his price is great, and their buddy's is fine. I just look at it this way...if you don't like the price move on.

I had one clown on KLOV try to follow that rule and tell me my 720 was overpriced at $700. Yet people are trying to sell it for much higher, but he's nowhere to be found outing them, and my price was fair market value...just too many inconsistencies and people just end up flooding the thread and derailing it complaining about pricing....

Larry has stated this is essentially a hobby for him and he likes to help out. Believe me, he's not making out like you think on these he just enjoys helping others and the business is literally just him. There is a reason why people aren't lining up trying to sell pins for everyone, it's a rough low margin business unless you are buying used, refurb, and sell high (like with console games).

The fact of the matter is that the margin is not there for distributors. It's set up in some old school archaic relic fashion from the 80s/90s and there is no way it should exist the way it does right now. The business models are still something out of a time warp. Trying to find "who" the distributors are in each region still involves talking to someone through someone, etc...I mean, even Brady had a definitive list for each area on their website, Betson, etc...it's still a very old school out of date process.

There are TONS of people who can't do the basics on a pinball that own these machines. Some of them live in Nashville! The bottom line is not everyone is tech savvy (even changing a fuse or putting a bulb in is "tech" to some), it all depends on the degree of skill. I know a ton more than I did 13 years ago when I was finally able to purchase my first pinball machine (and have room for one), but I still don't know as much as others, and even then I have to send our stuff out to Mike that confuses us (and even then we have stuff that takes him awhile because it is hard to trace and he's the best in the business for this stuff).

The bottom line is that just because you "own" a car does not mean you need to know how to change the oil. If there is a "service" place locally that can clean pins, change bulbs, check fuses, flipper stuff, and give diagnostics, I am sure people would love to get in on that...

Obviously the simplest of tasks is cleaning a pin (some in home use get little play) but Scarlett Johannson (sp?) purchased a pin from Dale. I am sure her or her assistants are not going to get their hands dirty if things need to be addressed. They will call a specialist.

Regardless of Dale's past before all of this, the issue at hand is still what is "expected" of a distributor if extra labor costs and tech support have to be included with each sale, and apparently "setup" even out of state.....that is the main issue at hand, how to handle said situation and why it is difficult in general to make any money as a distributor because of these situations.

Even more so if there was an issue with Chattanooga Pinball's credibility don't you think Jersey Jack would have done its due diligence to check on that? I am merely pointing that out as if Dale's "past" has been brought up then surely JJP would not have associated with possible issues that could have arisen, but Chattanooga Pinball has had perfect feedback for many years on eBay and they are still on there, and still sell to customers...so they must have felt fine having them be a distributor.

I didn't know that pilots are selling planes? That's news to me. When I go to the airport I have not heard of anyone from American Airlines trying to sell me a jet.

Distributors are middlemen selling a product. This is not even close to the same thing.

"Playing" a pinball vs "fixing" a pinball are two entirely different things. Just like "flying" a plane vs working on the engine.

Cal50 you said it correctly, MANUFACTURER should be covering this warranty.

I understand Jersey Jack is very helpful addressing things over the phone but if anything if a warranty comes up with a distributor issue they should be helping Dale on those if he is to be the "service call", so again, a lot of this is very unwarranted for this particular instance.

Do you get mad at GameStop for selling you a broken brand new in the box PS4? It clearly states the manufacturer has a warranty and to contact them first and not return to the store on various items (unless you just want a full refund).

The fact of the matter is this boils down to $150-200 service calls and there should be compensation for something as such. Dale has honored his warranties to people out of state by paying for others in the area to go to them. Heck we did one as well....

I am just saying people that do not own businesses or are involved with this type of junction are not looking at this clearly and seeing who really is responsible overall financially for this.

statsdoc: yes, Jersey Jack paid for your expenses to come out there and address the situation from Dale's sold game, but they should have had Dale come out and compensate his crew, so that is where the issue lies...

Looks just like how ours was. It was down easily a dozen times or more. Always needed "slight adjustments" but holy crap, all the coils just weakened once, and settings were correct, it was just bizarre.....and on top of that even when it was running people didn't like it. But when she is up and running it looks amazing.

Ok, I need to stop beating a dead horse on this.

By the way, margin on almost every new product from distributors based on "retail pricing" is super duper tiny. I come from console buying and you know the distributor costs of new systems are maybe $5-8 less than retail? Games are $7-8 less and then you deal with GameStop selling for LESS than cost later on?

All you have to do is look at the "lowest" cost of Wizard of Oz machines on eBay or from distributors.. You can guess what the margin is based on that alone. If you think every dealer is in cahoots to get $1000 in profit when they know they have to be competitive when everyone else knows they are all selling the same thing, you are crazy crazy crazy.

Again, if GameStop sells a busted PS4, the manufacturer is who they lead you to. It's always been that way. Granted it pisses off the customer, but it pisses GameStop off even more when they are stuck in the middle of a product that "bricks" as it is.

The fault lies with Jersey Jack not paying for Dale to make house calls on certain machines locally, or have them speak directly to the person who bought the machine, there really isn't much more he can do at that point because in no way should he have to pay out of his own pocket for warranty (which is the same with any business and why most places now have this bs "customer protection plan" on defective items that may already have warranties from the manufacturer you don't know about so you can think Best Buy or GameStop are helping "you" the consumer.

I am sure there is more to it, but as a generalization the responsibility to make it right would fall on the manufacturer.

And yes, Best Buy would try and get a working computer in the hypothetical situation you described to their customer, but if it was their last one in stock, they would not be the intermediary to the manufacturer of the defective product. They already have to deal with defective allowance (which mind you is allowed for large bulk orders at 2-3% included in the cost) and they may not order said product again from the manufacturer, that is why it is up to them. The bottom line is the product has issues. High issues regardless of what people think. If you put one of these on location more than likely there will be problems that may not be able to be addressed because of all the "new" items in the machines that are atypical to standard pinball machines that everyone is accustomed to repairing (like with Stern).

I will say this, after all the complaints about Stern I saw over the years they are coming out smelling like roses after this and the fiascos that have been going on with Lebowski and Predator at the moment.

Well again, GameStop can't "repair" said items either. You have to get an RMA and send it back to Sony. Trust me, we had to do that with a PS3 bought "new" or accept a full refund.

The car dealership thing is full service, you take it back to them and they address said problems "if" under warranty, stuff out of warranty they charge an arm and a leg on, but the dealer is also the manufacturer. Dale is not. He can be full service, but not everyone can just lug pinballs everywhere for repairs and "adjustments."

Unfortunately because of that they are not the same thing because Toyota deals with my Toyota dealership and that is a total inclusion of business. Unless JJP allots Dale defective allowance of funds to go and make calls on their behalf, he should never have to do it for free.

Although I am 100% curious of this he said/she said thing involving this pinball machine transaction.

Well in all honestly I wish we had more places to "purchase" pinball machines from locally. We have Chris Royalty and I wish Jon Hoffman would put his ads back up for the pins he used to sell on Craig's List.

Well, I actually have a lot of stuff I usually can sell/trade, but as a retailer people don't want to pay the prices. As a small business people don't realize we need that for people to support the place...this arcade in the middle of Nashville makes no sense. It would be highly profitable in almost any other city, but we have very very very low amounts of collectors/players/arcade goers out here for some reason. It literally exists just so we have a place.