(Topic ID: 112389)

17 WOZ's sold 17 had to work on right out of the box


By rlevin

4 years ago



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  • Latest reply 4 years ago by TigerLaw
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#101 4 years ago
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

This, I agree.
Perhaps in the future, often because issues are known much later, all the hard work from Lloyd and Alex, the work your staff did, the work individuals have done, could be in a container a bit better then posts.
Just that link alone, might save a great deal of time and angst.
I know I start with a search first for an issue. But for the novice, I one place to look in the
easiest of formats, might be a good idea.
While I dont know you personally, op, and all I know is in this thread, perhaps a solution
to your needs, your customer needs, and JJP, can be reached in private.
Sadly, it really is about your issues, and this spills into the community as a whole.
I am not judging or even implying this is wrong, I am referring to the vertical issues of potential customers for JJP and any work you and your company do.
Its the bandwagon of a witch hunt, when it seems to start, takes the heart out of people.
I would hope all we all want is the same thing.
Finding a way to achieve this for the positive, is more my opinion, and as the other threads going on,
I would hope a better, less, "accident on the side of the road" approach can be taken.
None of us enjoy the traffic, complain about the traffic, but contribute by slowing down and looking ourselves....human nature.
But it is a Beautiful Sunday Everywhere....Kumbaya.....maybe one thread can move into a positive solution... The issues have been shared, the accident has been removed from the highway, (maybe not gone), and I truly hope that this thread can be removed from the "angst" pile from both parties,
so you may find an answer, a solution, and well earned peace and rest for both.....
I know both parties work their asses off, and share the same good values as people.

AMEN BROTHAH!

Like I said, Art is a super intelligent businessman that gets it. Very wise words to live by my friends.

#102 4 years ago
Quoted from jgentry:

I agree that most of the margins suck and are not worth the effort. Wasn't trying to imply that any of these people are makng a killing selling pinball. Just that I do think the margins for JJP sales are a lot better than stern sales. Don't know that for sure but I can't see how they would not be. I purchase from Larry because I trust him, plus like you said, he does it because he enjoys it. That's a huge plus for me.
From what I have delt with personally and what I have heard from others that own WOZ JJP has done a pretty good job dealing with the issues. Yes, they need to prevent these before shipping going forward but there will always be some problems. If you are someone that can not be walked through a diagnostic or repair on the phone you probably should not own a pinball machine. Skype is also great for repairs, you can show them what you are seeing and they can see what you are doing.
Simple fact is pinball machine need repairs. If you can't do them with some guidance you better at the least have a local contact that can work on them for a fee for you. If not you probably should avoid this hobby. I can understand why people get pissed when an 8K toy stops working but this hobby is unique and you have to be able to do some of the stuff yourself.

There are TONS of people who can't do the basics on a pinball that own these machines. Some of them live in Nashville! The bottom line is not everyone is tech savvy (even changing a fuse or putting a bulb in is "tech" to some), it all depends on the degree of skill. I know a ton more than I did 13 years ago when I was finally able to purchase my first pinball machine (and have room for one), but I still don't know as much as others, and even then I have to send our stuff out to Mike that confuses us (and even then we have stuff that takes him awhile because it is hard to trace and he's the best in the business for this stuff).

The bottom line is that just because you "own" a car does not mean you need to know how to change the oil. If there is a "service" place locally that can clean pins, change bulbs, check fuses, flipper stuff, and give diagnostics, I am sure people would love to get in on that...

Obviously the simplest of tasks is cleaning a pin (some in home use get little play) but Scarlett Johannson (sp?) purchased a pin from Dale. I am sure her or her assistants are not going to get their hands dirty if things need to be addressed. They will call a specialist.

#103 4 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

mmm hmmm..
just toss this into google
"rec games pinball chattanooga pinball"

Whoa.

#104 4 years ago
Quoted from GAP:

missing a metal guard behind the castle wall.

12-0017-00 Castle Loop Ball Deflector

Mike, if you never got this please PM me and I'll get some information from you and get it going.

I'm sorry for what ever went wrong and didn't happen.

LTG : )

#105 4 years ago
Quoted from msj2222:

Ticket #s are a absolute joke, I opened two when I received my NIB woz and NEVER heard back from JJP and that was months ago. Its a broken useless system.

A lot has been done to the ticket desk lately to fix things so it works right.

And if you never hear from anyone in one day, please PM me or email me.

LTG : )

#106 4 years ago

OMG I just took metallik's suggestion and googled "rec games pinball chattanooga pinball". What I learned there was stunning. Jack has to be credited for putting up with this guy as long as he has. JJP is much better off without this guy as a distributor.

#107 4 years ago
Quoted from txstargazer3:

OMG I just took metallik's suggestion and googled "rec games pinball chattanooga pinball". What I learned there was stunning. Jack has to be credited for putting up with this guy as long as he has. JJP is much better off without this guy as a distributor.

Regardless of Dale's past before all of this, the issue at hand is still what is "expected" of a distributor if extra labor costs and tech support have to be included with each sale, and apparently "setup" even out of state.....that is the main issue at hand, how to handle said situation and why it is difficult in general to make any money as a distributor because of these situations.

Even more so if there was an issue with Chattanooga Pinball's credibility don't you think Jersey Jack would have done its due diligence to check on that? I am merely pointing that out as if Dale's "past" has been brought up then surely JJP would not have associated with possible issues that could have arisen, but Chattanooga Pinball has had perfect feedback for many years on eBay and they are still on there, and still sell to customers...so they must have felt fine having them be a distributor.

#108 4 years ago

This conversation is getting too educated for me. And I'm out of popcorn. Thats my Q.

#109 4 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

A lot has been done to the ticket desk lately to fix things so it works right.
And if you never hear from anyone in one day, please PM me or email me.
LTG : )

This is an example of how JJP is working their own internal processes to help people better. They are listening and changing to feedback. Geesh, all you have to do is look a TH from expo to now to see an example of that.

They will get better as time goes on. I have seen that trend and truly believe they care....to someone else's post....they are monitoring this thread too. And they should. I always like hearing the other side to the story.

#110 4 years ago

for every brand new company that makes a new pinball machine they should get a list of distributors that they would like to do business with a have a least one tech from each of those distributors visit there warehouse and maybe spend a couple days learning as much as they can about that particular machine and let them make a decision it they want to sell them and be responsible for fixing them if need be, it would probably help also if they actually meet the people who build the game and get to know who they will be dealing with in the future. When Boeing builds a brand new jet , do you think the pilots just jump in there and fly it, I don't think so, they go through rigorous training to learn the new technology

11
#111 4 years ago

When a distributor decides to go to pinside to air his problems, something is way off.

I know nothing of the distributor who started this thread (since I live in another part of the world ) but I can say that I would never even think about buying something from someone who decides to go this route.

It is extremely unprofessional, to say the least and I do not envy any pinball company that has to go through this stuff. Stuff that should be handled in private, no matter the reason.

#112 4 years ago
Quoted from bobbyt:

for every brand new company that makes a new pinball machine they should get a list of distributors that they would like to do business with a have a least one tech from each of those distributors visit there warehouse and maybe spend a couple days learning as much as they can about that particular machine and let them make a decision it they want to sell them and be responsible for fixing them if need be, it would probably help also if they actually meet the people who build the game and get to know who they will be dealing with in the future. When Boeing builds a brand new jet , do you think the pilots just jump in there and fly it, I don't think so, they go through rigorous training to learn the new technology

I didn't know that pilots are selling planes? That's news to me. When I go to the airport I have not heard of anyone from American Airlines trying to sell me a jet.

Distributors are middlemen selling a product. This is not even close to the same thing.

"Playing" a pinball vs "fixing" a pinball are two entirely different things. Just like "flying" a plane vs working on the engine.

#113 4 years ago

Catering to the home market brings with it added support needs that is a departure from route op's that (usually) fix their own equipment. As we all know its not if its when a pinball machine will need some repair or adjustments. The more complex the machine usually comes with added potential problems. Even moving an otherwise working machine across the room sometimes creates problems.

Public forums are a great resource for the DIY types but many people do not fall into this category. For the customer that needs extra eyes or hands on site someone has to show up and fix the problem and that time and cost should be covered by the manufacturer if under warranty. A distributor makes money on the sale but the warranty is with the factory and their responsibility to cover warranty repairs. WOZ had a less than perfect launch and with the several parts revisions and long wait it only makes support issues worse for the customer , distributor and the factory responsible.

#114 4 years ago

Cal50 you said it correctly, MANUFACTURER should be covering this warranty.

I understand Jersey Jack is very helpful addressing things over the phone but if anything if a warranty comes up with a distributor issue they should be helping Dale on those if he is to be the "service call", so again, a lot of this is very unwarranted for this particular instance.

Do you get mad at GameStop for selling you a broken brand new in the box PS4? It clearly states the manufacturer has a warranty and to contact them first and not return to the store on various items (unless you just want a full refund).

The fact of the matter is this boils down to $150-200 service calls and there should be compensation for something as such. Dale has honored his warranties to people out of state by paying for others in the area to go to them. Heck we did one as well....

I am just saying people that do not own businesses or are involved with this type of junction are not looking at this clearly and seeing who really is responsible overall financially for this.

statsdoc: yes, Jersey Jack paid for your expenses to come out there and address the situation from Dale's sold game, but they should have had Dale come out and compensate his crew, so that is where the issue lies...

#115 4 years ago
Quoted from statsdoc:

That is one of the most illogical questions I have seen. So, according to your train of thought, a pinball owner who supports the community should drive 1.5 hours each way and spend a day fixing a pinball problem ... and somehow feel obligated to do this for free. I made no money on the sale and am in a "business" that is not even tangentially related to pinball. I would love to hear your argument on how I should do this for free even though I am not related to the transaction.
I did it as a favor to Jack and he took care of my expenses. My family decided to make a day of it in Chattanooga as it is a great place to visit. I also hate to hear of a newbie in pinball that is struggling and wanted to help. I have no desire to be involved in the pinball industry. There are wonderful people on this site that are helping others. I just wanted to do my small part in supporting the community.
Is that so hard to believe? I'd bet you would do the same if given the opportunity.

You completely missed my point. What I am trying to say is that getting paid to do a service call is a lot different than supporting a $7500 product that you might have made a few hundred on. You are slamming rlevin for not supporting the machine, but it sounds like he already made a few trips out on that sale. It seems like you expect the distributors to take a win some, lose some position on selling brand new products. This would cut their profit margins down to under 3%.

That's my point entirely. Manufacturers can take their 3% and shove it. They are welcome to call me and pay my shop rate to go and fix their problems.... just like you.

#116 4 years ago

Went to play woz at modern during the party...image-638.jpg

#117 4 years ago
Quoted from SadSack:

You completely missed my point. What I am trying to say is that getting paid to do a service call is a lot different than supporting a $7500 product that you might have made a few hundred on. You are slamming rlevin for not supporting the machine, but it sounds like he already made a few trips out on that sale. It seems like you expect the distributors to take a win some, lose some position on selling brand new products. This would cut their profit margins down to under 3%.
That's my point entirely. Manufacturers can take their 3% and shove it. They are welcome to call me and pay my shop rate to go and fix their problems.... just like you.

No, I completely understood your point, but you are looking at this from the wrong perspective. From the customer's standpoint, Dale sold them the pin. It does not matter to them why it does not work, their point of contact is the distributor. That means, regardless of who's fault it is, the distributor s going to take the rap as they represent the manufacturer in the customer's eyes. I don't care who is paying for repairs to my Chevy if it has problems while under warranty or right off the lot. I may think that Chevys suck, but I will blame the dealer for not making it right. By representing JJP, Dale has an obligation to the customer to support a product he sold. It is then the responsibility of the distributor and manufacturer to work it out ... without the customer being placed in the middle. I would never buy a product from a business that basically says that you need to take it up with the manufacturer, as my support stops pretty much right out of the gate. If any of us expect pinball machines to be accepted in homes of non-pinheads, we have to learn how to serve a customer not an operator ... and that may mean charging higher prices so that support is funded.

I seriously can't imagine buying a computer from Best Buy for example, have the computer fail almost immediately, and after a couple of attempts to fix it, Best Buy tells me they will not help me anymore and i should send the computer to the manufacturer. That would be the last time me or anyone I know would purchase something from them.

#118 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Went to play woz at modern during the party...

image-638.jpg 157 KB

Looks just like how ours was. It was down easily a dozen times or more. Always needed "slight adjustments" but holy crap, all the coils just weakened once, and settings were correct, it was just bizarre.....and on top of that even when it was running people didn't like it. But when she is up and running it looks amazing.

Ok, I need to stop beating a dead horse on this.

By the way, margin on almost every new product from distributors based on "retail pricing" is super duper tiny. I come from console buying and you know the distributor costs of new systems are maybe $5-8 less than retail? Games are $7-8 less and then you deal with GameStop selling for LESS than cost later on?

All you have to do is look at the "lowest" cost of Wizard of Oz machines on eBay or from distributors.. You can guess what the margin is based on that alone. If you think every dealer is in cahoots to get $1000 in profit when they know they have to be competitive when everyone else knows they are all selling the same thing, you are crazy crazy crazy.

#119 4 years ago
Quoted from statsdoc:

No, I completely understood your point, but you are looking at this from the wrong perspective. From the customer's standpoint, Dale sold them the pin. It does not matter to them why it does not work, their point of contact is the distributor. That means, regardless of who's fault it is, the distributor s going to take the rap as they represent the manufacturer in the customer's eyes. I don't care who is paying for repairs to my Chevy if it has problems while under warranty or right off the lot. I may think that Chevys suck, but I will blame the dealer for not making it right. By representing JJP, Dale has an obligation to the customer to support a product he sold. It is then the responsibility of the distributor and manufacturer to work it out ... without the customer being placed in the middle. I would never buy a product from a business that basically says that you need to take it up with the manufacturer, as my support stops pretty much right out of the gate. If any of us expect pinball machines to be accepted in homes of non-pinheads, we have to learn how to serve a customer not an operator ... and that may mean charging higher prices so that support is funded.
I seriously can't imagine buying a computer from Best Buy for example, have the computer fail almost immediately, and after a couple of attempts to fix it, Best Buy tells me they will not help me anymore and i should send the computer to the manufacturer. That would be the last time me or anyone I know would purchase something from them.

Again, if GameStop sells a busted PS4, the manufacturer is who they lead you to. It's always been that way. Granted it pisses off the customer, but it pisses GameStop off even more when they are stuck in the middle of a product that "bricks" as it is.

The fault lies with Jersey Jack not paying for Dale to make house calls on certain machines locally, or have them speak directly to the person who bought the machine, there really isn't much more he can do at that point because in no way should he have to pay out of his own pocket for warranty (which is the same with any business and why most places now have this bs "customer protection plan" on defective items that may already have warranties from the manufacturer you don't know about so you can think Best Buy or GameStop are helping "you" the consumer.

#120 4 years ago
Quoted from DreamTR:

Jersey Jack paid for your expenses to come out there and address the situation from Dale's sold game, but they should have had Dale come out and compensate his crew, so that is where the issue lies...

I think there was more to it than this, but I can't speak to that issue. Regardless, there was no reason for the customer to be placed in the middle of this, and I saw Jack make every effort to address the issue and solve the problem. I have owned several businesses and would never leave a customer in the lurch regardless of whose responsibility it was. My name was behind my sales, and I was not going to dirty it for something like this; my reputation is worth more than that.

#121 4 years ago
Quoted from DreamTR:

Again, if GameStop sells a busted PS4, the manufacturer is who they lead you to. It's always been that way. Granted it pisses off the customer, but it pisses GameStop off even more when they are stuck in the middle of a product that "bricks" as it is.
The fault lies with Jersey Jack not paying for Dale to make house calls on certain machines locally, or have them speak directly to the person who bought the machine, there really isn't much more he can do at that point because in no way should he have to pay out of his own pocket for warranty (which is the same with any business and why most places now have this bs "customer protection plan" on defective items that may already have warranties from the manufacturer you don't know about so you can think Best Buy or GameStop are helping "you" the consumer.

Simple response, this is no PS4. The car analogy applies better here because of the price tag. Regardless, I would never shop at GameStop again if that happened. Do you think that is what GameStop really wants? They want to lose all future purchases over a problematic PS4? Fine, then I would never grace their doorstep again. I am not sure that is a good long term business plan when you depend on repeat customers like in pinball.

#122 4 years ago
Quoted from statsdoc:

I think there was more to it than this, but I can't speak to that issue. Regardless, there was no reason for the customer to be placed in the middle of this, and I saw Jack make every effort to address the issue and solve the problem. I have owned several businesses and would never leave a customer in the lurch regardless of whose responsibility it was. My name was behind my sales, and I was not going to dirty it for something like this; my reputation is worth more than that.

I am sure there is more to it, but as a generalization the responsibility to make it right would fall on the manufacturer.

And yes, Best Buy would try and get a working computer in the hypothetical situation you described to their customer, but if it was their last one in stock, they would not be the intermediary to the manufacturer of the defective product. They already have to deal with defective allowance (which mind you is allowed for large bulk orders at 2-3% included in the cost) and they may not order said product again from the manufacturer, that is why it is up to them. The bottom line is the product has issues. High issues regardless of what people think. If you put one of these on location more than likely there will be problems that may not be able to be addressed because of all the "new" items in the machines that are atypical to standard pinball machines that everyone is accustomed to repairing (like with Stern).

I will say this, after all the complaints about Stern I saw over the years they are coming out smelling like roses after this and the fiascos that have been going on with Lebowski and Predator at the moment.

#123 4 years ago
Quoted from statsdoc:

Simple response, this is no PS4. The car analogy applies better here because of the price tag. Regardless, I would never shop at GameStop again if that happened. Do you think that is what GameStop really wants? They want to lose all future purchases over a problematic PS4? Fine, then I would never grace their doorstep again. I am not sure that is a good long term business plan when you depend on repeat customers like in pinball.

Well again, GameStop can't "repair" said items either. You have to get an RMA and send it back to Sony. Trust me, we had to do that with a PS3 bought "new" or accept a full refund.

The car dealership thing is full service, you take it back to them and they address said problems "if" under warranty, stuff out of warranty they charge an arm and a leg on, but the dealer is also the manufacturer. Dale is not. He can be full service, but not everyone can just lug pinballs everywhere for repairs and "adjustments."

Unfortunately because of that they are not the same thing because Toyota deals with my Toyota dealership and that is a total inclusion of business. Unless JJP allots Dale defective allowance of funds to go and make calls on their behalf, he should never have to do it for free.

Although I am 100% curious of this he said/she said thing involving this pinball machine transaction.

#124 4 years ago

Obviously there are a lot of different ways to run a company, some more succcessful than others. I have no dog in this hunt, so to speak, but I do know with whom I am willing to do business. I cannot defend Dale's position from a customer' perspective; some of you obviously can. I do know which distributors support their products, and i will spend my money there. I wish you all the best, but this argument is going nowhere. i am signing off on this as we all have better things to do.

Peace.

#125 4 years ago
Quoted from DreamTR:

There are TONS of people who can't do the basics on a pinball that own these machines. Some of them live in Nashville! The bottom line is not everyone is tech savvy (even changing a fuse or putting a bulb in is "tech" to some), it all depends on the degree of skill. I know a ton more than I did 13 years ago when I was finally able to purchase my first pinball machine (and have room for one), but I still don't know as much as others, and even then I have to send our stuff out to Mike that confuses us (and even then we have stuff that takes him awhile because it is hard to trace and he's the best in the business for this stuff).
The bottom line is that just because you "own" a car does not mean you need to know how to change the oil. If there is a "service" place locally that can clean pins, change bulbs, check fuses, flipper stuff, and give diagnostics, I am sure people would love to get in on that...
Obviously the simplest of tasks is cleaning a pin (some in home use get little play) but Scarlett Johannson (sp?) purchased a pin from Dale. I am sure her or her assistants are not going to get their hands dirty if things need to be addressed. They will call a specialist.

Yes, we are extremely lucky in the middle TN area. We have you operating more pins on location than probably anywhere else, options to buy fairly close by with flipnoutpinball and choochooarcades, plus some unbelievable repair/restore folks like Mike. Plus Mike does amazing plating work.

#126 4 years ago
Quoted from statsdoc:

I think there was more to it than this, but I can't speak to that issue. Regardless, there was no reason for the customer to be placed in the middle of this, and I saw Jack make every effort to address the issue and solve the problem. I have owned several businesses and would never leave a customer in the lurch regardless of whose responsibility it was. My name was behind my sales, and I was not going to dirty it for something like this; my reputation is worth more than that.

Then start distributing pinballs, bigshot! This has been my point the whole time. Distributing new pinball machines is for the birds. Tiny margins backed up by tons of service. Yay!

#127 4 years ago
Quoted from jgentry:

Yes, we are extremely lucky in the middle TN area. We have you operating more pins on location than probably anywhere else, options to buy fairly close by with flipnoutpinball and choochooarcades, plus some unbelievable repair/restore folks like Mike. Plus Mike does amazing plating work.

Well in all honestly I wish we had more places to "purchase" pinball machines from locally. We have Chris Royalty and I wish Jon Hoffman would put his ads back up for the pins he used to sell on Craig's List.

#128 4 years ago
Quoted from DreamTR:

Well in all honestly I wish we had more places to "purchase" pinball machines from locally. We have Chris Royalty and I wish Jon Hoffman would put his ads back up for the pins he used to sell on Craig's List.

Yes, forgot to mention hot rod arcades. They always have some cool pins available.

It would definately be nice to have a more active market for sales and trades though.

#129 4 years ago

Well, I actually have a lot of stuff I usually can sell/trade, but as a retailer people don't want to pay the prices. As a small business people don't realize we need that for people to support the place...this arcade in the middle of Nashville makes no sense. It would be highly profitable in almost any other city, but we have very very very low amounts of collectors/players/arcade goers out here for some reason. It literally exists just so we have a place.

#130 4 years ago

So if I like "pizza", but mine comes with pepperoni and I like "sausage"... I mean, if taco bell sells me a mexican pizza without beans, but the pepsi isn't diet, and there was ice in it when I bought it, but it melted.....WTF?! I thought pinball was the topic at hand.There must be something in the water this weekend, I feel lile I am in a messed up episode of the twilight zone.

#131 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Went to play woz at modern during the party...

It's always worked when I've been there. They must've known you were coming.

#132 4 years ago

Lol, with my luck lately, probably true!

#133 4 years ago

The OP definitely has an argument here... Jack WAS running all over the country saying that there would be a "Nationwide Network" of qualified repair technicians that could be dispatched to "customer's homes" as needed. As a new JJP distributor, that was probably a very attractive situation.

It hasn't happened.

**It's probably coming with the promised Wi-Fi software updates, on-line pinball competitions, etc...

#134 4 years ago

All I can say as a dealer is that Stern never paid me anything to service pins. Some had minor to major issues out of the box, few worked 100%. Chas provided very good support, but I had to deal with my distributor at times for warranty parts & they sold direct. Pat Powers was useless & I don't deal or talk with him after my CSI playfield problems as a regular customer before I became a dealer. Over the years probably no money as a dealer selling Stern pins. Talked with Gary numerous times, might of well spit on the ground for any response afterwards. At least some of his employees cared, there are a number of them still working there. Big thanks to Chas & a few others!

As for my early WOZLE, it did suffer some early led board issues. I was very happy with the support I received & parts. I sold it used & got my money back. Only other pin like that was AC/DC BIB.

#135 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Went to play woz at modern during the party...

image-638.jpg 157 KB

Ok, to be fair, this game is working fine. I was playing it when it went down and a fuse at Modern blew because of the extra power being used for the two TBL's. So they turned off WOZ because it drains the most power. That's all. Not fair to say this is indicative of a problematic pin.

#136 4 years ago

I got some real time on a WOZ in a home setting today. Loved everything about the game play, my has it advanced since last I played it.

Maintenance concerns are my big worry. Threads like this do not make me feel better, but I certainly like that jack posts in these threads and vehemently defends his products and at least appears to be very supportive. Glad to see Jen in this thread also working on shipping issues.

#137 4 years ago
Quoted from DreamTR:

Well in all honestly I wish we had more places to "purchase" pinball machines from locally. We have Chris Royalty and I wish Jon Hoffman would put his ads back up for the pins he used to sell on Craig's List.

I liked those Craigslist ads and Facebook posts from Jon. Purchased a new in box Southpark pin from him around 2011. He even meet me at 4:30 in the morning.

I need to read this thread but just looked at last page as the title caught my attention.

All I can think of is this is crazy and I thought I posted crazy stuff when I used to take Ambien. This thread has to go down as Epic.

#138 4 years ago

My WOZ had a few loose screws but that was about it. The overall quality is outstanding. JJP support has been great as well. I'm not so sure someone should purchase a pin without a little basic knowledge of how to fix things as there are so many things to go wrong or need adjustment over time. It's also unfair to expect your dealer to run out and fix these things on a razor thin margin. I'd deal direct with JJP for service and leave the dealer out of it except for maybe the initial purchase. I'm pleased with WOZ so much I'm going to blindly order the 3rd JJP title whatever, whenever that is.

#139 4 years ago
Quoted from GAP:

My apron was damaged in shipping, my game is an early one and missing a metal guard behind the castle wall. If you hit the ball around the upper loop on the upper playfield it jump the wire for and gets stuck all the time. They made a new part for this on later games. I filled out a ticket, there was one response, will order it for you. That was the last I heard.

Mike did you ever ask your Dist. to take care of the problem? NO you did not!

Ok now that's been stated!

I have sold lots of WOZ'S and have had a few issue's with nib games but most were very simple problems to repair. (loose molex, monitor cables undone, bad fuse) I have had a few board issues with early run games but are now taken care of!!!!!
I have a lot of early run LE,s out there I have sold and NEVER had a problem with!!!!!!!!

As long as were talking about out of the box problems, My ACDCBIB has had problems since day one!
I cant remember how many times the other companys tech dept have told me to reflash the code!!!!!

The bottom line is not every game made is perfect out of the box, no matter what manufacture it is, but from problems more lessons are learned and how issues can be corrected!

Pincades
Chicago land JJP Dist.
JT

#140 4 years ago

Truth is anything built with so many parts will need some tweaking . If you are told differently you are being lied to. It's the service afterwards that defines the company.

#141 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Truth is anything built with so many parts will need some tweaking . If your told differently you are being lied to. It's the service afterwards that defines the company.

Yeah and we bend absolutely backwards to support our customers. JT from pincades along with our thousands of customers attest to that. Problems get solved when we get looped in.

#142 4 years ago
Quoted from abelelectronics:

(Able) We have sold close to a hundred woz's. When I talk to customer's that have them in arcades. I am told they are one of their most reliable pins. I have proto type number 2 that still runs in my shop today. It's been hauled around to all the pinball shows. Has thousands of plays on it. I think they are a very reliable pin. Especially if you look at what's in this pin compared to other pins that are out there today.

Quoted from KingPinGames:

(KingPin) i would not worry so much. what you are seeing here are a couple of the people that are having issues. what you DON'T see are all the people that are happily playing their machines and haven't posted a "good" review. look at anything that is mass produced and you will generally find more "bad" reviews than good. As a fellow distributor i can say that i have sold about 50 machines or so and have had very few issues. even with those issues i have had great support from the JJP team. issues were diagnosed over the phone /or/ parts were shipped out.

either way, do what you need to do in order to vent your frustration. me personally, i am going to play some more pinball.

Christopher
King Pin Games

Quoted from Jamaster10:

(Pincades) I have sold lots of WOZ'S and have had a few issue's with nib games but most were very simple problems to repair. (loose molex, monitor cables undone, bad fuse) I have had a few board issues with early run games but are now taken care of!!!!!
I have a lot of early run LE,s out there I have sold and NEVER had a problem with!!!!!!!!

For those of you that are "worried" about after the sale service, there are 3 other distributors above that have sold hundreds machines between the 3 of us and are not having the issues that Dale is. I won't claim that I haven't had any issues, just that they have always been taken care of. Anytime that i needed parts or tech support i have been able to get both.

No trying to "kick the hornets nest" or anything, just showing that there is another side to everything.

Merry Christmas
Keep on plunging those balls.

Christopher
King Pin Games

#143 4 years ago

I own a WOZ and I never had one light board issue EVER.

If everyone had issues this whole board would be flooded with WOZ complaints. It sounds like the OP has to look in the mirror at himself first before he can just flame away at Jack.

#144 4 years ago
Quoted from islandpinball:

I own a WOZ and I never had one light board issue EVER.

But you've never turned it on. LOL

I'm blown away that we have members posting false information when they know what they're post is just false. Claiming you've never had issues when many of us know differently. Very strange and disappointing. Islandpinball I'm not referring to your post.

13
#145 4 years ago

I'll chime in as well as a JJP distributor.

The accusations are wild and ridiculous. There are reasons Dale / Chatanooga Pinball aren't JJP distributors and they all have to do with him, not JJP. He was the last distributor appointed and the first and only to get the boot. That speaks volumes. This post is nothing but sour grapes.

Have we had some 'tweaking' issues along the way, yes. Is it every game, not even close - 1 maybe out of 10 with minor issues for the most part and quickly addressed with a screwdriver or a part. Most of those early on as well. I've shipped / delivered 15 or so 75ths in the last month or two and no issues of note on any. I've sold maybe 50 plus WOZ's overall and nobody is lynching anyone over them. They love them and usually lead to immediate purchases of the Hobbit.

As far as service... If you know anything about Jack - he makes things right and puts the customer first. He's done it time and time again with JJP - taking advice from and taking care of the collector community - logo off invisiglass, changes to the Hobbit after Expo, allowing LE customers to upgrade to Smaug for no extra money, the Austrailian situation, etc... They listen and respond.

The service team at JJP is PHENOMENAL. THEY CARE. Lloyd is wonderful - knowledgeable and friendly. Alex helps out here free of charge to anyone that has a question or a need - I doubt Jack is paying Alex to monitor Pinside for service questions, still he's here, always... Both Lloyd and Alex have been known to assist my customers at any hour of the day and NIGHT ! Returning calls in minutes not hours. Ken or Steve both who is in house, drop everything to help anyone who may need it - distributor or customer. And Frank Becker they just hired for in house tech support at factory has impressed me so far with his promptness... See below snipet of an email from a customer last week that had a situation they want diagnosed and they give a day have free - Frank says, happy to help, what time ? That folks, is how you do it.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Michael,
I’d be glad to diagnose the problems….LMK what time on Wednesday
Frank Becker
JJP Support
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Frank,
Can we schedule a time for Wednesday to investigate?
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Joe Newhart
PinballSTAR Amusements
Sales@PinballSTAR.com
570-357-0042

#146 4 years ago

Joe, Jesse, The guys at Abel, Buddy. All great guys and distribs. They know what it means to sell a pinball machine and we back every single one of them every single time.

#147 4 years ago
Quoted from Pinchroma:

Joe, Jesse, The guys at Abel, Buddy. All great guys and distribs. They know what it means to sell a pinball machine and we back every single one of them every single time.

why do i get left out? <pouts like a little kid in the corner>

just kidding.

#148 4 years ago
Quoted from KingPinGames:

why do i get left out? <pouts like a little kid in the corner>
just kidding.

WHOOPS! Sorry.. and of course Chris too!!!!

#150 4 years ago

I love you Chris even though Alex dissed ya ! lol

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