(Topic ID: 233776)

1313 Mockingbird Lane ~ MUNSTERS Club.

By Monte

2 years ago


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  • 515 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 18 hours ago by Thunderbird
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There are 10,371 posts in this topic. You are on page 98 of 208.
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#4851 2 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Munsters for sale:
LEs: Currently, there is only one LE for sale and it is a dealer sale. Of the archived ads, 10 LEs show as being sold here and elsewhere. Other for sale ads say they changed their mind and decided to keep----or they sold it and just not talking about it. There are 25 total in the archived ads section.
Premiums: 2 Premiums have been sold elsewhere. 2 were not sold. There are no Premiums for sale. And there is one WTB ad that is active.
Pros: There are 5 active ads listed. Not counting dealer sales. There are a total of 35 archived for sale ads. Of those, 23 were sales and the rest were decided to keeps.
Not exactly sales numbers that show signs of distress sales. Not exactly sales numbers that suggest a pin no fun to play.
There are 127 LE owners, 57 wishlisters. And 26 public locations.
There are 90 Premium owners. 100 wishlisters. And 39 public locations.
There are 119 Pro owners. 59 wishlisters. and 122 public locations.
127 + 90 + 119+ 26+ 39 + 122 = 523 Munsters that can be accounted for. Add 473 for the LEs that are not on pinside.
That's 996 unit sales ( allow some fluctuation for the possibility of some dealers still holding some LEs. ).
I don't know what is good or bad, but 996 units does not sound too shabby to me.

Umm, Stern sells about 10k games a year. If they sell 4 games a year, 1000 units for a particular game is a failure, especially if 600 are LEs.

#4852 2 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Munsters for sale:
LEs: Currently, there is only one LE for sale and it is a dealer sale. Of the archived ads, 10 LEs show as being sold here and elsewhere. Other for sale ads say they changed their mind and decided to keep----or they sold it and just not talking about it. There are 25 total in the archived ads section.
Premiums: 2 Premiums have been sold elsewhere. 2 were not sold. There are no Premiums for sale. And there is one WTB ad that is active.
Pros: There are 5 active ads listed. Not counting dealer sales. There are a total of 35 archived for sale ads. Of those, 23 were sales and the rest were decided to keeps.
Not exactly sales numbers that show signs of distress sales. Not exactly sales numbers that suggest a pin no fun to play.
There are 127 LE owners, 57 wishlisters. And 26 public locations.
There are 90 Premium owners. 100 wishlisters. And 39 public locations.
There are 119 Pro owners. 59 wishlisters. and 122 public locations.
127 + 90 + 119+ 26+ 39 + 122 = 523 Munsters that can be accounted for. Add 473 for the LEs that are not on pinside.
That's 996 unit sales ( allow some fluctuation for the possibility of some dealers still holding some LEs. ).
I don't know what is good or bad, but 996 units does not sound too shabby to me.

People in our area have trouble selling for around 5 so they are keeping it to not take a hit. In the mid 4s they seem to sell. I got mine in a trade for Star Wars. I’m happy I did. I really like munsters and the play. Star Wars pro was probably the hardest and most frustrating pin I’ve ever played.

#4853 2 years ago

I just paid $4,600. I think that's about the sweet spot for a fairly quick sale. Much more than that I would have just bought new and gotten delivery free. Munsters is a great pin - just the theme music alone puts a smile on my face. I knew I had to have one from the first play. But some don't like it and that's OK. In that case better to sell and get something else.

#4854 2 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Mine isn't for sale and never will be

Hard to imagine me selling either...But, I left this pinball stuff once before, and sold everything..so, never say never for me.

If CGC ever makes a TAF, I'm here to stay!

#4855 2 years ago
Quoted from Happy81724:

People in our area have trouble selling for around 5 so they are keeping it to not take a hit. In the mid 4s they seem to sell. I got mine in a trade for Star Wars. I’m happy I did. I really like munsters and the play. Star Wars pro was probably the hardest and most frustrating pin I’ve ever played.

That is the thing about Stern Pros. After you buy the first one NIB delivered and take your first pricing hit then can sell/buy and trade through a long line of other great Stern Pros. Sell your current PRO game to get SW, MET, GOTG, ST, TWD, IMDN, IM, AS, GOT, etc Pros at a similar price you sold for, try them and sell that one and repeat.

Best way to absorb a NIB hit is to buy a HUO game that someone else just took a NIB hit on.

#4856 2 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Mine isn't for sale and never will be

I would like to sell mine. I want a Dialed In and don't really want to add another game. I gave my little guy the option of what to sell Met Prem or Mun Prem... He said Munsters.

#4857 2 years ago
Quoted from kcZ:

I would like to sell mine. I want a Dialed In and don't really want to add another game. I gave my little guy the option of what to sell Met Prem or Mun Prem... He said Munsters.

MET would definitely be a hard game to get rid of.

#4858 2 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

Umm, Stern sells about 10k games a year. If they sell 4 games a year, 1000 units for a particular game is a failure, especially if 600 are LEs.

OK. Let's talk about that. What is the sell number that has to be hit for a pin to not be a failure, in your opinion?

Moving over to The Beatles, Stern announced the numbers it would be happy with. 1,964 Beatles Golds were announced to be produced. Stern just set its bar right there. So, if Stern reaches that sales goal of 1,964 Beatles selling then only a fool would say Beatles Gold was a failure. The number we don't have is how many Beatles does Stern need to sell to break even? At what unit number does Stern start making a profit? Stern might be perfectly happy if sales stop at 1200, for example.

Taking the LEs out of the equation, 996 - 600 = 396 Munsters (Pros and Premiums) is the current pinside ownership number. Notice, I said "pinside ownership number". Get ready for a new acroym.....using "PON" as guide, Stern needs to sell 1,568 more Munsters to match the 1,964 Beatles Golds sales objective.

But we already know that Pinside PON is just one part of any sales estimate picture. We do not have any idea of how many sales have actually happened because (many, a few, a lot, gobs) pinball owners don't show up on Pinside and there are others with private collections.

I'll set the Munsters sales bar at that 1,964 Beatles number and AFAIK, 1,568 more Munsters need to sell.

Which takes me back to my opening question to you: What is the "sell number" that has to be reached before Munsters can be considered "not a failure", in your opinion?

And, also, how many Munsters that are not part of PON do you think have sold? Some around here are of the opinion that Pinside represents about 20% of pinball ownership. So, if the 396 can be considered a 20% ownership rate, then 100% would be 1,980 units sold. Already. If this sounds preposterous, then consider how all of the speculation sounds when it is all pie in the sky BS with no numbers estimates, at all. I mean, really, Stern is the only one holding all of the numbers regarding break even sales, current sales, costs and cost overruns, etc.

Adding the 600 LEs ( it is safe to assume that Stern has cut a fat hog with LEs sales) back into the mix and the PON of 996 units suggests to me that Munsters is doing OK in the market.

Don't forget, Munsters are still being produced and sold. And I have yet to read of anybody coming on and saying they just took delivery of their new Munsters Color Premium. So we still more sales to consider with that.

So, for the 3rd time, what is the sell number Munsters has to hit before you consider it not a failure?

#4859 2 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

So, for the 3rd time, what is the sell number Munsters has to hit before you consider it not a failure?

For B/W it was 3000 before making a profit, I would guess Stern would near on be the same?

#4860 2 years ago
Quoted from Kiwipinhead:

For B/W it was 3000 before making a profit, I would guess Stern would near on be the same?

How did you arrive at 3000? Did you get a peek at B/W books?

Keep in mind, IMO, Stern set its bar at 1,964 with The Beatles. That's way be low 3000 units.

#4861 2 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Keep in mind, IMO, Stern set its bar at 1,964 with The Beatles. That's way be low 3000 units.

Well, Stern and KaPow seriously overcharged for the Beatles, so that should help make up for the lower quantity.

#4862 2 years ago

I had some spare .020 polycarbonate laying around so I figured I would try my hand at making some small play field protectors.

I was starting to the some black coloration at the shooter lane so I use Novus on the black and and some plastic protection.

I had to make a template

IMG_1464 (resized).JPG

And then add some double back tape to the finished protector. The tape is left over from one of those window winterize kits from the hardware store.

IMG_1466 (resized).JPG

NOTE: I repositioned this piece to be a little closer to the edge of the shooter trough after i took the pic.

It is hard to see but I added a small piece of poly to the outboard side of the shooter lane.

IMG_1470 (resized).JPG

For the Spot ramp drop, I cut a small piece of poly to absorb the impact from balls dropping.

IMG_1472 (resized).JPG

IMG_1474 (resized).JPG

You might be questioning the "cupped" or concave ball entry position of the return lane protector. Just like pouring water through a funnel, I figure a rolling ball entering a return lane has a better chance of completing its entry with a funnel style of entry as opposed to an arrowhead style of entry. It is performing quite well and not pushing any balls into the outlane. It is performing well enough that I am going to protect the other 3 outlane/return lanes.

This one has been installed using the double back tape from the window kit.

IMG_1478 (resized).JPG

#4863 2 years ago
Quoted from Rum-Z:

Well, Stern and KaPow seriously overcharged for the Beatles, so that should help make up for the lower quantity.

Don’t forget Beatles licensing costs. That’s why they had to jack the cost up.

Depending on Munsters licensing cost, I would think 2-3k units. I bet they have no problem getting that over 3 years of sales. So OK to small success.

On the flip side, to be considered a smash hit for Stern, sales over 5k units, like AC/DC, MET.

#4864 2 years ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

Don’t forget Beatles licensing costs. That’s why they had to jack the cost up.

Indeed true, but I suspect that they included some extra "jack" over and above the Beatles licensing costs in their jacking up of the cost.

#4865 2 years ago
Quoted from Rum-Z:

Well, Stern and KaPow seriously overcharged for the Beatles, so that should help make up for the lower quantity.

I was not talking about whether Stern overcharged for The Beatles. I won't say it is common knowledge, but many people are of the opinion that a hefty chuck of Stern's revenue went to licensing fees to pad The Beatles Store profits.

And you are saying 1,964 Beatles sales projection is a lower quantity? A lower quantity compared to what?

Here is a PON comparison between Munsters and Deadpool. You know, Deadpool that is giving everyone a woody.

The Pro models. Munsters is on the left. Deadpoll is on the right.

Since Deadpool has been on the market for a longer period of time, IMO, Munsters has some fairly respectable comparison numbers of pinside owners. Munsters just does not look like it is the sales disaster that many here are hoping it will be.

Screen Shot 2019-07-03 at 1.48.07 PM (resized).png

The Premiums. The Premiums has Munsters showing a smaller count of wishlisters but a a larger number of pinsiders putting their money where their mouth is when it comes to ownership.

Screen Shot 2019-07-03 at 1.49.26 PM (resized).png

And the LEs

Screen Shot 2019-07-03 at 1.50.17 PM (resized).png

#4866 2 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

OK. Let's talk about that. What is the sell number that has to be hit for a pin to not be a failure, in your opinion?

Let it go man. Haha. Do you like your game? That’s all that matters.

#4867 2 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Let it go man. Haha. Do you like your game? That’s all that matters.

#4868 2 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

OK. Let's talk about that. What is the sell number that has to be hit for a pin to not be a failure, in your opinion?
Moving over to The Beatles, Stern announced the numbers it would be happy with. 1,964 Beatles Golds were announced to be produced. Stern just set its bar right there. So, if Stern reaches that sales goal of 1,964 Beatles selling then only a fool would say Beatles Gold was a failure. The number we don't have is how many Beatles does Stern need to sell to break even? At what unit number does Stern start making a profit? Stern might be perfectly happy if sales stop at 1200, for example.
Taking the LEs out of the equation, 996 - 600 = 396 Munsters (Pros and Premiums) is the current pinside ownership number. Notice, I said "pinside ownership number". Get ready for a new acroym.....using "PON" as guide, Stern needs to sell 1,568 more Munsters to match the 1,964 Beatles Golds sales objective.
But we already know that Pinside PON is just one part of any sales estimate picture. We do not have any idea of how many sales have actually happened because (many, a few, a lot, gobs) pinball owners don't show up on Pinside and there are others with private collections.
I'll set the Munsters sales bar at that 1,964 Beatles number and AFAIK, 1,568 more Munsters need to sell.
Which takes me back to my opening question to you: What is the "sell number" that has to be reached before Munsters can be considered "not a failure", in your opinion?
And, also, how many Munsters that are not part of PON do you think have sold? Some around here are of the opinion that Pinside represents about 20% of pinball ownership. So, if the 396 can be considered a 20% ownership rate, then 100% would be 1,980 units sold. Already. If this sounds preposterous, then consider how all of the speculation sounds when it is all pie in the sky BS with no numbers estimates, at all. I mean, really, Stern is the only one holding all of the numbers regarding break even sales, current sales, costs and cost overruns, etc.
Adding the 600 LEs ( it is safe to assume that Stern has cut a fat hog with LEs sales) back into the mix and the PON of 996 units suggests to me that Munsters is doing OK in the market.
Don't forget, Munsters are still being produced and sold. And I have yet to read of anybody coming on and saying they just took delivery of their new Munsters Color Premium. So we still more sales to consider with that.
So, for the 3rd time, what is the sell number Munsters has to hit before you consider it not a failure?

Don’t feed the troll cottonm4 .......Still have no idea why non owners post in owners threads.

#4869 2 years ago
Quoted from cooked71:

Don’t feed the troll cottonm4 .......Still have no idea why non owners post in owners threads.

yup. Never sell my LE... code is fine...game rocks....

#4870 2 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

what is the sell number Munsters has to hit before you consider it not a failure?

Assuming 10k games a year and 3 (or 4) titles per year that would be an average of 3300 or 2500 units per titled (simplified, ignoring reruns of older titles). So any game that doesn’t hit the average is by definition below average. How far below average does a title’s sales have to be before it’s considered a failure is probably the more correct question.

In Munsters case with the initial interest and demand for the title high (increasing the number of LEs by 20%) I would have expected more demand after the LE rush. We didn’t see that with Munsters. You mention we haven’t seen any reports of color Premiums. That’s either because (a) they haven’t been run yet or (b) no one is buying them. If (b) then the demand isn’t there (for whatever reason)

I presume that for most titles Stern comes close to breaking even for development costs for a title if they sell out the LEs and some small number of units so how profitable/successful a title tracks to how far above average unit sales it is. That means of course that a game doesn’t have to hit average unit sales to be profitable. I seriously doubt Munsters hit Stern’s projected unit sales (which I would gave expected to be > average unit sales). In my book, that makes Munsters sales a failure.

And I certainly don’t think comparing Munsters sales to Beatles sales is fair. As an earlier poster said, Stern set a hard cap on sales and had a higher average price per sale which skews any comparison.

However Stern is a manufacturing company first and foremost. I doubt their accountants care about which titles sell what as long as the line keeps moving and they meet/exceed their projected profit numbers.

And you are forgetting a key fact - that I’m sure many owners here would agree on - just because Munsters hasn’t sold well doesn’t make it a bad game.

#4871 2 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Let it go man. Haha. Do you like your game? That’s all that matters.

What he said. As an owner, that’s all that should matter to you.

Though whether Stern will put more resources into software updates is probably directly related to how many more incremental units if they do. As a wannabe owner, that’s what matters to me.

#4872 2 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

How did you arrive at 3000? Did you get a peek at B/W books?
Keep in mind, IMO, Stern set its bar at 1,964 with The Beatles. That's way be low 3000 units.

#4873 2 years ago
Quoted from cooked71:

Don’t feed the troll cottonm4 .......Still have no idea why non owners post in owners threads.

In club threads it’s my understanding it’s for everyone that likes the game. I don’t own Munsters, but I love playing it.

#4874 2 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

In club threads it’s my understanding it’s for everyone that likes the game. I don’t own Munsters, but I love playing it.

Thats probably fine... but if you dont like it and are here just to bash....there are other threads for that.....

#4875 2 years ago

wow! 17 new post since I looked from yesterday. Thought maybe a new code or something neato...nothing new here...disappointing.

#4876 2 years ago
Quoted from ShinyBall:

wow! 17 new post since I looked from yesterday. Thought maybe a new code or something neato...nothing new here...disappointing.

Nope, not even a mention of it in STOU as well. Very disappointing.

#4877 2 years ago

Hopefully there will be something added when the topper is released.

#4878 2 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

In club threads it’s my understanding it’s for everyone that likes the game. I don’t own Munsters, but I love playing it.

That’s true, but the individual I was referring to doesn’t own OR like the game, so.....

#4879 2 years ago
Quoted from cooked71:

That’s true, but the individual I was referring to doesn’t own OR like the game, so.....

Yeah true true. Club threads are all I have for new games that come out and I like them. The other thread(s) are completely garbage. There honestly should be a sub-forum for the garbage threads for each title. Haha

#4880 2 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Yeah true true. Club threads are all I have for new games that come out and I like them. The other thread(s) are completely garbage. There honestly should be a sub-forum for the garbage threads for each title. Haha

Yeh, that would be a great idea. A Hate subforum like the basement. You can elect to just have it not visible so those threads don’t even show on your “feed”. Then Mods can also move new hate threads that belong in there.

There’d be a group of Pinsiders that would only ever be seen in this subforum and that would make everyone happy.

#4881 2 years ago
Quoted from cooked71:

That’s true, but the individual I was referring to doesn’t own OR like the game, so.....

If you are referring to me, you are mistaken.

12
#4882 2 years ago

Gma getting some games in before the fireworks.

20190703_182356 (resized).jpg
#4883 2 years ago
Quoted from Jaeg:

Gma getting some games in before the fireworks.[quoted image]

Now theres a woman that knows her pinball!

#4884 2 years ago

Thought I would post and share an issue I experienced yesterday with a premium version which I purchased 6 weeks ago. I enjoy reading this forum and thought by sharing this, it may assist others in the future should the same issue arise.
The left flipper on the mini PF, although operating, was very slow when returning to its de-energised state (parking position).
While not happy with this happening with a NIB machine only 6 weeks old, the only way to attack the issue was to remove the mini PF to explore the cause.
I found the mini PF was very easy to remove by the simple unplug of x 3 wire harnesses and x 4 lock nuts (Circled in RED) under the PF. (Diagram Attached).
I removed the coil and found there was some resistance on the flipper linkages which was restricting the spring around the coil plunger from operating efficiently. I disassembled the flipper bat and linkage, cleaned and reassembled all. Fixed !
Still unsure of the cause, however now confident in the future to remove and fix any mini PF issues in the future.

Munsters - Mini PF (resized).jpg
#4885 2 years ago
Quoted from oldpins:

Thought I would post and share an issue I experienced yesterday with a premium version which I purchased 6 weeks ago. I enjoy reading this forum and thought by sharing this, it may assist others in the future should the same issue arise.
The left flipper on the mini PF, although operating, was very slow when returning to its de-energised state (parking position).
While not happy with this happening with a NIB machine only 6 weeks old, the only way to attack the issue was to remove the mini PF to explore the cause.
I found the mini PF was very easy to remove by the simple unplug of x 3 wire harnesses and x 4 lock nuts (Circled in RED) under the PF. (Diagram Attached).
I removed the coil and found there was some resistance on the flipper linkages which was restricting the spring around the coil plunger from operating efficiently. I disassembled the flipper bat and linkage, cleaned and reassembled all. Fixed !
Still unsure of the cause, however now confident in the future to remove and fix any mini PF issues in the future.[quoted image]

Same thing happened to my game also. It was because the flipper mech had came a little loose and it put it in a bind. I have heard of this happening to other games as well.

#4886 2 years ago

just got back from a party a friend had. this friend has 20 or so pins, most of them 20-30 years old. But did get to play a few newer ones, namely The Adams Family, Pirates of Caribbean, Haunted House and the original Black Knight. IMHO, Munsters LE more fun to play than any of those, although TAF was a close second...

#4887 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinwalk:

IMHO, Munsters LE more fun to play than any of those, although TAF was a close second...

I agree with you, TAF would be my only other CGC pin if ever made.

#4888 2 years ago

I love my munsters but we have a TAF at league night and nothing on munsters can beat the thing hand coming out or the start of multiball light show. It's always a blast when those two things happen and everyone knows it's multiball when they hear "it's showtime". Herman is no thing hand coming out of a box.

Big pro for Munsters is that it shoots so much smoother and the ramps are much more satisfying for me. I would love to have a TAF sitting right next to my munsters.

#4889 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinwalk:

just got back from a party a friend had. this friend has 20 or so pins, most of them 20-30 years old. But did get to play a few newer ones, namely The Adams Family, Pirates of Caribbean, Haunted House and the original Black Knight. IMHO, Munsters LE more fun to play than any of those, although TAF was a close second...

I think Munsters is more fun than Adams Family as well but i will admit that i haven't put much time on TAF. I would like to get more time on one though and be able to make a better comparison..

#4890 2 years ago

Munster does shoot very well. Very smooth. Great theme and excellent game.

#4891 2 years ago

Have played another 20+ games between last night and today....gotta say, this right lane drain is driving me a little cra cra. Kept informal total over past 5 games or so, out of every 10 drains, 1 is on the left hand side, 3-4 are down the middle, 5-6 are right hand side drains. And that's after moving the post down a little and putting a slightly bigger washer on the post!

#4892 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinwalk:

Have played another 20+ games between last night and today....gotta say, this right lane drain is driving me a little cra cra. Kept informal total over past 5 games or so, out of every 10 drains, 1 is on the left hand side, 3-4 are down the middle, 5-6 are right hand side drains. And that's after moving the post down a little and putting a slightly bigger washer on the post!

Tried changing the level of the right legs?

#4893 2 years ago
Quoted from Lawnboy:

Ok. Found out where these go Does not look easy to put back in. The round piece goes under the left ramp and it looks like its a counter weight for the spot trap door. one screw one each side that are also not east to get too. The right one is in the yellow circle in picture. I have had at least three other people PM me telling me they are at least missing the screws. CHECK the tightness on yours [quoted image]

I'm still going through this thread and on page 34 found this post. This is exactly where my screw is missing from just on the other side. Now to figure out how to get it back in there...

At least the one on Herman's side is there. Going to see if I can get at that one to make sure it's tight as well.

IMG_20190705_143814072 (resized).jpgIMG_20190705_143829074 (resized).jpg
#4894 2 years ago
Quoted from JayLar:

Tried changing the level of the right legs?

Thanks, yes, just did that..checked with level, its still 'level', just a tad high on rhs, lets hope that does it!

#4895 2 years ago

Highly recommend a tool set like this if you don't have one. The flexible shaft makes getting at hard to reach places quite simple.

amazon.com link »

I was able to get that screw back in with minor disassembly and when I checked the screw on the other side it too was loose and needed about 2 turns of tightening. Recommend you check those. I don't see any thread lock at all on the screws.

#4896 2 years ago
Quoted from C0untDeM0net:

Highly recommend a tool set like this if you don't have one. The flexible shaft makes getting at hard to reach places quite simple.
amazon.com link »
I was able to get that screw back in with minor disassembly and when I checked the screw on the other side it too was loose and needed about 2 turns of tightening. Recommend you check those. I don't see any thread lock at all on the screws.

Looks like a very handy tool set, may have to pick one of these up. Thanks for sharing.

#4897 2 years ago
Quoted from C0untDeM0net:

Highly recommend a tool set like this if you don't have one. The flexible shaft makes getting at hard to reach places quite simple.
amazon.com link »
I was able to get that screw back in with minor disassembly and when I checked the screw on the other side it too was loose and needed about 2 turns of tightening. Recommend you check those. I don't see any thread lock at all on the screws.

Add to cart!

#4898 2 years ago

Ok folks, who has got their Munsters toppers on order? Does anyone have any info on them at all? Looks like the Raven may actually come out of a door? I got mine ordered and i cant wait to get it and put it on my game, looks like a beautiful topper!

#4899 2 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Ok folks, who has got their Munsters toppers on order? Does anyone have any info on them at all? Looks like the Raven may actually come out of a door? I got mine ordered and i cant wait to get it and put it on my game, looks like a beautiful topper!

how did you order?

#4900 2 years ago

I placed an order on Friday with Hemispheres Amusements through their eBay store. Kurt indicated in the listing the toppers would be in stock and shipping as early as this coming week!

There are 10,371 posts in this topic. You are on page 98 of 208.

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