(Topic ID: 165193)

11 EM games mini pinraid - worth anything?


By DEN

3 years ago



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  • 95 posts
  • 33 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by NicoVolta
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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    #1 3 years ago

    Hi guys, bought couple of nice pins, and in this deal i got 11EM games for extreme low prise, i could buy them or they would bee dropped in the dumpster. Actually bought them because of there legs as parts.
    BUT now looking at there playfields, want to try them.

    These games has been in warehouse for 12years, is it crazy to restore one of these EM´s will it be too big of a job? thinking about dust and rust on parts?

    Is there any EM titels that are fun or worth anything?

    Junk or not? just bee honest?

    >>> I LOVE BALLY PINS FROM 1980-1982!!!

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    #17 3 years ago
    Quoted from zacaj:

    Center pop Bally Freedom, you lucky bastard

    Looks odd with popbumper at center. On you tube videoes they dont have that bumper and flippers are at common place, wierd.

    #18 3 years ago
    Quoted from Otaku:

    I wonder how much shipping would be. Would love to get my hands on that Scuba or Outer Space (probably Scuba) for my next project.

    I can pack it on a pallet if you arrange pick up.
    Dont know what its worth, did not cost me alot

    #19 3 years ago
    Quoted from Otaku:

    Looks like you got a shipment heading out to Pennsylvania, DEN. I hear it's cheaper to ship in bulk... so uh... just send them all and we'll be sure to split it up evenly.

    What is it with this freedom with centerpop, ive recived two mails with interrested buyers

    #20 3 years ago
    Quoted from electricsquirrel:

    HOLY COW!
    I didn't notice...there are two Freedoms!

    Yes you are right.
    I recentley found out, the freedom with normal flippers is NOT EM. Its normal bally ss pinball with boards, but no soundboard!
    Took glass off, under the dirt....omg its nice playfield

    #25 3 years ago

    Yes it is dated on backglass.

    So early production.

    Looks like gameplay would bee odd with that wide flippers and bumper inbetween. I am thinking nudgetting alot

    #26 3 years ago

    Okey. Need help.
    Freedom EM early production.

    8amp fuse was missing.

    Put that in.

    Turned on. Only one burned coil clicks and stayes energiesed. Nothing else happends.

    At left side 3fuses located. All working.

    Cant find any other fuses. Where to look next?

    Game does not start up.

    Coin and start button does nothing

    Help guys. Tottally new on EM

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    #28 3 years ago

    Thanks.
    I got lights on backbox.

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    #29 3 years ago

    Flippin this coin switch does nothing

    When i turn gsme on. Shouldrnt all scores just reeset to 00000¿

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    1 week later
    #34 3 years ago

    Wouwww i really enjoyed readin your post.
    What a storey leason. Thanks.
    Well i have seen one youtube video of a guy who is playing freedom em prototype and it looks hell of a fun.
    But i really dont know about em games. Bought so many of then. When i read this i really want to let it past on to you

    Quoted from NicoVolta:

    Whoa... I was at a pinball party this evening and Xerico just informed me about this thread... "You didn't hear about it?"
    NOPE! *gasp*
    Hi DEN. What you've got there is, in my *opinion*, the most desirable EM of them all. Both in terms of play and collectability (collectibility?). The main reason why....?
    Norm Clark.
    The guy was a WIZARD of innovation from the start of his career and never quit. His first game was Williams King Pin in 1962... a novel game with four flippers in an unusual layout w/center kicker. King Pin is (rightly) considered one of the very best of the "reverse wedgeheads" from that era along with River Boat, which he also designed. Other innovations followed:
    1964 - Stop N' Go with reverse flippers and unique stop/go scoring
    1966 - 8-Ball - 2-player middle-pop game
    1966 - A-Go-Go - first game with roulette captive ball spinner (which he invented)
    1967 - Magic City - 1-player middle-pop game
    1968 - Cue-T/Miss-O - 1-player middle-pop games w/AAB variant
    1970 - Jive Time w/huge backbox spinner
    1971 - Doodle Bug w/innovative captive ball scoring and nonstop action
    1972 - Spanish Eyes - First middle-pop game w/3" flippers
    1972 - Fan-Tas-Tic - First 4-player middle-pop game
    1973 - Travel Time - unique time-based play
    1974 - Norm Clark modifies some Bow and Arrow machines with a new little thing called "solid state technology"
    ...as well as having designed many beloved games in-between such as Apollo, Pit Stop, Klondike, Gulfstream, etc.
    If you look at pinball history, you will see that every middle-pop game since the woodrail era (with the exception of Safari which doesn't have a full-strength bumper) was designed by Norm Clark. Essentially, he is responsible for bringing back middle-pop games and making them fun again. Norm Clark is, without question, THE middle-pop guy.
    Knowing this... we continue...
    In 1975, Norm Clark joined Bally as head of the design department. The next game in production was for the American bicentennial celebration in 1976... hence "Freedom". The IPDB states that Freedom was "designed by George Christian under the guidance of Norm Clark". However, if you look at the actual layout of the Freedom prototype you will notice that...
    ...it is a middle-pop game.
    ...it has flipper drains and an identical stance to Spanish Eyes.
    ...it has a central spinner randomizing feature similar to Fan-Tas-Tic/Jive Time.
    ...George Christian, at the time, was a new hire with no previous experience.
    The evidence rather strongly indicates the Freedom prototype is predominantly a Norm Clark design. But how much was designed by George? How much by Norm? Let's explore a bit further.
    At the time, Bally was on a hot streak with a hot new designer: Greg Kmiec. He was hard at work in the next room and had recently designed the first blockbuster pinball machine with over 10,000 produced: Wizard! Followed by another huge hit: Bow and Arrow. Around the time Norm and George joined the team... Kmiec was busy working on his next big hit: Old Chicago.
    Now, if you look at Old Chicago's layout, it has a spinner in the upper left... same location as Freedom. And a row of five drop targets on the side... also similar to Freedom. It could be that just as entertainment design houses tend to move in waves (as with movies and music), so too with pinball. And thus, the legacy of Norm Clark and his fondness for middle-pops, combined with the "new Bally house energy" contributed by Kmiec... all came together at just right time.
    For his part, George might have placed the three asymmetrical pops which seems to be the only consistently identifiable element in his designs. But it's hard to know for sure. I think he was still learning the ropes. Freedom looks an awful lot like Fan-Tas-Tic and doesn't resemble anything else George went on to design. If anything, Freedom is closer Kmiec's general style... reference Old Chicago, Captain Fantastic, especially Night Rider which was designed around the same time.
    OK... let's move on. Of Norm's middle-pop games, the Freedom prototype is the only one to utilize Bally hardware. Which, at the time, was hitting the sweet spot. The Wizard!-era delivered huge backglasses, DC rectification, that sexy curved top rail, and an overall style which would eventually lead to the blockbuster "Class of '81" golden era. The chimes also sounded a helluva lot better than Williams.
    BUT THERE BE TROUBLE!
    As we know, only 100 Freedom prototypes were ever built. Primarily because European distributors didn't "get" the middle-pop thing. They demanded a redesign... and Bally caved in order to sell more units. Which essentially destroyed its fundamental figure-8 geometry and wide shot stance (not to mention the unpredictable fun of the middle-pop).
    Isn't it ironic that a game named "Freedom" of all things, with an over-the-top American theme, gets shut down by fussy Europeans from which Americans came in the first place? I imagine a snooty Frenchman in a beret... "zis meedle-pop bumper... tut tut... no no no... zees will not do at all. Not at all. Just make eet like all ze others. Do eet now... or you... and your MEEDLE-POP BUMPER... can sweem back to America."
    LOL and thus here we are today.
    A lot of rare games and prototypes were made in low quantities because they weren't very good, but this one is definitely an exception. It really is that special. The Freedom prototype is Norm's last, and best, middle-pop game... deployed on the best, and last, Bally EM platform... in its original unmolested form... having escaped with its "Freedom" intact... with a touch of Kmiec's "house energy" in full swing... and is the single best-playing EM I have ever found. The layout is wide, fast, and fun and will teach you new flipper skills in the process. Enough that I think every serious player or collector should have at least one middle-pop in their stable (Fan-Tas-Tic would be the obvious alternative since it offers a similar layout and relatively high production count... can still be had affordably).
    Frankly, I'd like to see a company offer Freedom conversions for non-prototypes. Seems doable. Playfield airbrushing, a few new holes, an extra pop mech... why not?
    So, DEN... if you are not an EM-guy... if you don't enjoy disassembling steppers and relays and rebuilding things by hand... if you don't plan to give this special game a head-to-toe restoration... I suggest passing it on to someone who will do so and put it in front of people who will play it and be entertained by its history. Who knows, since yours is in Europe, maybe that very game was the one which set everyone off? :p
    And yes, I'd also very much like to own it and restore it.

    #37 3 years ago

    Just ssen it now thanx.

    Also sorry to other pm writers for no answer, havent been on pinside for about a week sorry.

    #42 3 years ago

    I have been offerd 1200for my em proto freedom.

    Uploading few pics.

    When i turn game on a coil called lock clicks on and nothing more happends.

    Game does not start up.

    All offers on mail. Thank you. Now with more pics. It sounds crazy to me offering that much without seeing more pics.

    Game has not been cleaned or norhing. All rubbers are useless. Needs cleaning.
    Game does not work.

    I only want to make open honest deal.

    Its a prototype yes.

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    #43 3 years ago

    Wrong pic. Sorry. This is a williams pin. Sorry.

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    #44 3 years ago

    Okey these 3 pics are the right pin
    Sorry

    #46 3 years ago

    Wouwwww havent seen such love for em games before. Hell never seen anyone in denmark giving ems love

    #57 3 years ago

    Just to bee clear ive been offerd 1000euro from germany. Think its about 1200usd. Also wont write it myself. But also got a close to that offer from whiters here. They are weclome to write there offer open here.
    Also if wanna buy more ems at onse, also an option

    2 weeks later
    #63 3 years ago

    No nothing.
    Had not anytime to look at it.

    #64 3 years ago

    The rest og pins.
    I had a guy over uesterday.
    He looked at scoober and jumpjack gottlieb, he did something inside cabinet and everything start turning and ressettimg. Dint know what.
    Then hee "manually" reset my space mission and we started playing the game. Its nice. Needs cleaning and rubber. Both popbumpers doesent work oterthen that it playes well.

    Freedom ss got new rubber. Cleaned. Alltek boards. Playes awesome.

    I kept freedom em freedom ss and space mission. ALL the other pins git sold yesterday to a great friend.

    He loves the fast draw. Scober. Jumpjack and outerspace gittlieb line up. Same cabinets. Those 4 looks great together.

    Rest pins he will turn them to tabels. Cut the legs and put in lights.

    Freedom EM is standing in the corner

    #65 3 years ago

    I love the ballsave at 1:40

    #66 3 years ago

    Got incredible offer on freedom EM. Its sold. Also space mission is gone.

    Now i only have a freedom SS. Need a file pictute of the backglass. Its missing. Would bee great to print it out.

    Thanks for all the help guys and also for the info

    #70 3 years ago

    Went to a local american car collector, he fell in love with the theme, american flag, presidents, eagle, and so on.
    So much love with all americana.
    He took freedom spacemission and gorgar.
    Also a bally pin to use for spareparts, the green one with casino theme, it looked like new under the playfield.
    I couldent wait to get it all home and restore em.
    He wants all to look old used and original, will only replace only nesesery parts.
    Hee will invite me when its finished, i will take some pics.

    #73 3 years ago

    I showed him where to get new parts.
    He wants new bal rubberset and bulbs. Rest will be polished up.

    Its his first pin.

    Told him alittle about the rarety, he also liked that story but dident show much exitment about it.

    He came to buy his first pin gorgar and saw all 3 together and bought them plus a sparepart em.

    I also have another em with cracked backglass under transport, call it crocodile pin. Its got a big croc plastic at upper right corner and has a metal arm that can cone out and grab the ball at popbumper area. Anyone knows that em? Its a bally.

    #76 3 years ago

    Exactley thatone

    #78 3 years ago

    To all EM gods in here.
    Just got two pics of an EM pin.
    Guy tells me its an german pin. Named firecracker, german writting on backglass.
    He will thriw it out if i dont pick it up.
    Its a 50km ride for me. Anybody knows this pin? Any fun? Worth the ride?
    Pin han been at his spareroom for 15 years. Dusty and not working.

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    #82 3 years ago

    Dont know about the mise and termites
    Only got these two pics.
    A Bally is totally worth saving.
    Wierd about german version

    #84 3 years ago

    Well got the pin. Its in nice condition. Used as tabel ik livingroom over 10 years. No rats inside.

    BUT everything on pf is also in german, not only the backglass. Bummerrrrr!!!!

    #88 3 years ago

    Lookes nice.
    Looking forward to put it together and turn the game on.
    Hope it works. BUT inreally doubt it

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