(Topic ID: 165193)

11 EM games mini pinraid - worth anything?


By DEN

3 years ago



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  • 95 posts
  • 33 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by NicoVolta
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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    There are 95 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 3 years ago

    Hi guys, bought couple of nice pins, and in this deal i got 11EM games for extreme low prise, i could buy them or they would bee dropped in the dumpster. Actually bought them because of there legs as parts.
    BUT now looking at there playfields, want to try them.

    These games has been in warehouse for 12years, is it crazy to restore one of these EM´s will it be too big of a job? thinking about dust and rust on parts?

    Is there any EM titels that are fun or worth anything?

    Junk or not? just bee honest?

    >>> I LOVE BALLY PINS FROM 1980-1982!!!

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    #2 3 years ago

    Heck yeah, looks like some fun stuff in there. Nip It, Quick Draw, Space Mission... Trying to figure out what the Bally game is near the car tire.

    #3 3 years ago

    Nice find! 100% absolutely worth restoring, no question about it.

    Those playfields look great from what I can see. It looks like Nip it, Fast Draw, Space Mission, Freedom, Jack in the box, Odds & Evens, Outer Space, Scuba, Playtime, some others.

    If these were mine I'd start working on them right away! Remember, in 100 years with periodic maintenance these games will still be around and running as they're a part of history, and all super fun to play.

    Congrats on picking up some amazing games!

    #4 3 years ago

    This is what we like to refer to as STRIKING GOLD. Nice grab!

    #5 3 years ago

    Don't let those machines go into the dumpster. They aren't that difficult to repair once you get the hang of it.

    #6 3 years ago

    Center pop Bally Freedom, you lucky bastard

    #7 3 years ago
    Quoted from zacaj:

    Center pop Bally Freedom, you lucky bastard

    Oh weird, I didn't notice that. One with and one without. Where's NicoVolta? He loves the prototype version. It would be fun to have them set up side by side for awhile.

    #8 3 years ago

    You got a good score. Restore them.

    #9 3 years ago

    Nope, all junk. Put them on a barge and let them float across the ocean into my port.

    #10 3 years ago

    I wonder how much shipping would be. Would love to get my hands on that Scuba or Outer Space (probably Scuba) for my next project.

    #11 3 years ago

    Wow - great find. My two cents, but would totally lean towards resoration.

    #12 3 years ago
    Quoted from zacaj:

    Center pop Bally Freedom, you lucky bastard

    Seconded

    #13 3 years ago

    The Freedom center pop is junk. I'll take it off your hands.

    #14 3 years ago
    Quoted from electricsquirrel:

    The Freedom is junk. I'll take it off your hands.

    Looks like you got a shipment heading out to Pennsylvania, DEN. I hear it's cheaper to ship in bulk... so uh... just send them all and we'll be sure to split it up evenly.

    #15 3 years ago

    The're worth thousands on EBay!

    #16 3 years ago

    HOLY COW!

    I didn't notice...there are two Freedoms!

    #17 3 years ago
    Quoted from zacaj:

    Center pop Bally Freedom, you lucky bastard

    Looks odd with popbumper at center. On you tube videoes they dont have that bumper and flippers are at common place, wierd.

    #18 3 years ago
    Quoted from Otaku:

    I wonder how much shipping would be. Would love to get my hands on that Scuba or Outer Space (probably Scuba) for my next project.

    I can pack it on a pallet if you arrange pick up.
    Dont know what its worth, did not cost me alot

    #19 3 years ago
    Quoted from Otaku:

    Looks like you got a shipment heading out to Pennsylvania, DEN. I hear it's cheaper to ship in bulk... so uh... just send them all and we'll be sure to split it up evenly.

    What is it with this freedom with centerpop, ive recived two mails with interrested buyers

    #20 3 years ago
    Quoted from electricsquirrel:

    HOLY COW!
    I didn't notice...there are two Freedoms!

    Yes you are right.
    I recentley found out, the freedom with normal flippers is NOT EM. Its normal bally ss pinball with boards, but no soundboard!
    Took glass off, under the dirt....omg its nice playfield

    #21 3 years ago
    Quoted from DEN:

    I can pack it on a pallet if you arrange pick up.
    Dont know what its worth, did not cost me alot

    Would love to have it (not an incredibly rare game, just have never seen one pop up around me) but can't begin to think what shipping costs would be. I think it has to be in a crate also, not entirely sure. I'm only 18 so my budget is pretty much nothing but when I start working full time in the fall maybe I can make more dreams realities.

    Anyways, if some overseas buyers want those Freedoms maybe some sort of package deal can be done. Expecting it to be way more than it's worth though.

    -

    Freedom with the pop bumper between the flippers is the early-production game which apparently makes it a much better game and is hard to find too. I think it also has "1776" and "1976" on the backglass as well, which they removed later on to not make the machine seem dated in the coming years (e.g. playing and seeing that in 1978 would make it clear the machine was already 2 years old and made in/for 1976)

    #22 3 years ago

    You know, if you can restore a SS, you can restore an EM. Me personally, I prefer SS, I would not pass on a good EM deal. In the end, restoring play fields, plastics, and Cabinets are pretty close to the same.

    #23 3 years ago
    Quoted from DEN:

    I can pack it on a pallet if you arrange pick up.

    We're sending the boat with the whole crew!

    SR5_(resized).jpg

    #24 3 years ago

    Looks like dumpster material to me.

    #25 3 years ago

    Yes it is dated on backglass.

    So early production.

    Looks like gameplay would bee odd with that wide flippers and bumper inbetween. I am thinking nudgetting alot

    #26 3 years ago

    Okey. Need help.
    Freedom EM early production.

    8amp fuse was missing.

    Put that in.

    Turned on. Only one burned coil clicks and stayes energiesed. Nothing else happends.

    At left side 3fuses located. All working.

    Cant find any other fuses. Where to look next?

    Game does not start up.

    Coin and start button does nothing

    Help guys. Tottally new on EM

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    #27 3 years ago
    Quoted from DEN:

    Game does not start up.
    Coin and start button does nothing
    Help guys. Tottally new on EM

    Ah, totally new on EM. Take a deep breath It's a bit of a different animal than solid state. Won't coin up is the first problem - it's not going to do anything if you can't put a credit on it or set it up for freeplay...so that's really the first thing I'd look for. You are going to need schematics if you don't have them, and the tools to do contact cleaning and adjustment. From the pics I'd say dirty contacts is a likely problem. This read is a good primer as well http://www.pinrepair.com/em/

    That's a real nice haul, congrats.

    #28 3 years ago

    Thanks.
    I got lights on backbox.

    IMG_20160729_125158_(resized).jpg

    #29 3 years ago

    Flippin this coin switch does nothing

    When i turn gsme on. Shouldrnt all scores just reeset to 00000¿

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    #30 3 years ago

    http://www.dougspinball.com/?p=1236

    This is for a Williams EM but it really helps

    #31 3 years ago
    Quoted from DEN:

    When i turn gsme on. Shouldrnt all scores just reeset to 00000¿

    No.

    http://www.dougspinball.com/?p=1236

    #32 3 years ago

    If you want to move all (or some) of them, give Christian a call/email at Pinballseye in Sweden. He would probably buy the lot, and restore them and put them out for everyone to enjoy.

    www.pinballseye.se

    Christian opens the location all the time to the public, and has many large tournaments there (including Swedish Open and IFPA World Champs last year)

    rd

    1 week later
    18
    #33 3 years ago
    Quoted from AlexF:

    Oh weird, I didn't notice that. One with and one without. Where's NicoVolta? He loves the prototype version. It would be fun to have them set up side by side for awhile.

    Whoa... I was at a pinball party this evening and Xerico just informed me about this thread... "You didn't hear about it?"

    NOPE! *gasp*

    Hi DEN. What you've got there is, in my *opinion*, the most desirable EM of them all. Both in terms of play and collectability (collectibility?). The main reason why....?

    Norm Clark.

    The guy was a WIZARD of innovation from the start of his career and never quit. His first game was Williams King Pin in 1962... a novel game with four flippers in an unusual layout w/center kicker. King Pin is (rightly) considered one of the very best of the "reverse wedgeheads" from that era along with River Boat, which he also designed. Other innovations followed:

    1964 - Stop N' Go with reverse flippers and unique stop/go scoring
    1966 - 8-Ball - 2-player middle-pop game
    1966 - A-Go-Go - first game with roulette captive ball spinner (which he invented)
    1967 - Magic City - 1-player middle-pop game
    1968 - Cue-T/Miss-O - 1-player middle-pop games w/AAB variant
    1970 - Jive Time w/huge backbox spinner
    1971 - Doodle Bug w/innovative captive ball scoring and nonstop action
    1972 - Spanish Eyes - First middle-pop game w/3" flippers
    1972 - Fan-Tas-Tic - First 4-player middle-pop game
    1973 - Travel Time - unique time-based play
    1974 - Norm Clark modifies some Bow and Arrow machines with a new little thing called "solid state technology"

    ...as well as having designed many beloved games in-between such as Apollo, Pit Stop, Klondike, Gulfstream, etc.

    If you look at pinball history, you will see that every middle-pop game since the woodrail era (with the exception of Safari) was designed by Norm Clark. Essentially, he is responsible for bringing back middle-pop games and taking them to the next level.

    Knowing this... we continue...

    In 1975, Norm Clark joined Bally as head of the design department. The next game in production was for the American bicentennial celebration in 1976... hence "Freedom".

    As we know, only 100 Freedom prototypes were ever built. Primarily because European distributors didn't "get" the middle-pop thing. They demanded a redesign... and Bally caved in order to sell more units. Which essentially destroyed its fundamental figure-8 geometry and wide shot stance (not to mention the unpredictable fun of the middle-pop).

    Isn't it ironic that a game named "Freedom" of all things, with an over-the-top American theme, gets shut down by fussy Europeans from which Americans came in the first place? I imagine a snooty Frenchman in a beret... "zis meedle-pop bumper... tut tut... no no no... zees will not do at all. Not at all. Just make eet like all ze others. Do eet now... or you... and your MEEDLE-POP BUMPER... can sweem back to America."

    LOL and thus here we are today.

    A lot of rare games and prototypes were made in low quantities because they weren't very good, but this one is definitely an exception. The Freedom prototype is Norm Clark's last, and best, middle-pop game... deployed on the last, and best, Bally EM platform... in its original unmolested form... having escaped with its "Freedom" intact... with a touch of Kmiec's "house energy" in full swing... and is the single best-playing EM I have ever found. The layout is wide, fast, and fun and will teach you new flipper skills in the process. Enough that I think every serious player or collector should have at least one middle-pop in their stable (Fan-Tas-Tic or Spanish Eyes would be the obvious alternatives since they offer a similar layout and relatively high production count... can still be had affordably).

    So, DEN... if you are not an EM-guy... if you don't enjoy disassembling steppers and relays and rebuilding things by hand... if you don't plan to give this special game a head-to-toe restoration... I suggest passing it on to someone who will do so and put it in front of people who will play it and be entertained by its history. Who knows, since yours is in Europe, maybe that very game was the one which set everyone off? :p

    And yes, I'd also very much like to own it and restore it.

    #34 3 years ago

    Wouwww i really enjoyed readin your post.
    What a storey leason. Thanks.
    Well i have seen one youtube video of a guy who is playing freedom em prototype and it looks hell of a fun.
    But i really dont know about em games. Bought so many of then. When i read this i really want to let it past on to you

    Quoted from NicoVolta:

    Whoa... I was at a pinball party this evening and Xerico just informed me about this thread... "You didn't hear about it?"
    NOPE! *gasp*
    Hi DEN. What you've got there is, in my *opinion*, the most desirable EM of them all. Both in terms of play and collectability (collectibility?). The main reason why....?
    Norm Clark.
    The guy was a WIZARD of innovation from the start of his career and never quit. His first game was Williams King Pin in 1962... a novel game with four flippers in an unusual layout w/center kicker. King Pin is (rightly) considered one of the very best of the "reverse wedgeheads" from that era along with River Boat, which he also designed. Other innovations followed:
    1964 - Stop N' Go with reverse flippers and unique stop/go scoring
    1966 - 8-Ball - 2-player middle-pop game
    1966 - A-Go-Go - first game with roulette captive ball spinner (which he invented)
    1967 - Magic City - 1-player middle-pop game
    1968 - Cue-T/Miss-O - 1-player middle-pop games w/AAB variant
    1970 - Jive Time w/huge backbox spinner
    1971 - Doodle Bug w/innovative captive ball scoring and nonstop action
    1972 - Spanish Eyes - First middle-pop game w/3" flippers
    1972 - Fan-Tas-Tic - First 4-player middle-pop game
    1973 - Travel Time - unique time-based play
    1974 - Norm Clark modifies some Bow and Arrow machines with a new little thing called "solid state technology"
    ...as well as having designed many beloved games in-between such as Apollo, Pit Stop, Klondike, Gulfstream, etc.
    If you look at pinball history, you will see that every middle-pop game since the woodrail era (with the exception of Safari which doesn't have a full-strength bumper) was designed by Norm Clark. Essentially, he is responsible for bringing back middle-pop games and making them fun again. Norm Clark is, without question, THE middle-pop guy.
    Knowing this... we continue...
    In 1975, Norm Clark joined Bally as head of the design department. The next game in production was for the American bicentennial celebration in 1976... hence "Freedom". The IPDB states that Freedom was "designed by George Christian under the guidance of Norm Clark". However, if you look at the actual layout of the Freedom prototype you will notice that...
    ...it is a middle-pop game.
    ...it has flipper drains and an identical stance to Spanish Eyes.
    ...it has a central spinner randomizing feature similar to Fan-Tas-Tic/Jive Time.
    ...George Christian, at the time, was a new hire with no previous experience.
    The evidence rather strongly indicates the Freedom prototype is predominantly a Norm Clark design. But how much was designed by George? How much by Norm? Let's explore a bit further.
    At the time, Bally was on a hot streak with a hot new designer: Greg Kmiec. He was hard at work in the next room and had recently designed the first blockbuster pinball machine with over 10,000 produced: Wizard! Followed by another huge hit: Bow and Arrow. Around the time Norm and George joined the team... Kmiec was busy working on his next big hit: Old Chicago.
    Now, if you look at Old Chicago's layout, it has a spinner in the upper left... same location as Freedom. And a row of five drop targets on the side... also similar to Freedom. It could be that just as entertainment design houses tend to move in waves (as with movies and music), so too with pinball. And thus, the legacy of Norm Clark and his fondness for middle-pops, combined with the "new Bally house energy" contributed by Kmiec... all came together at just right time.
    For his part, George might have placed the three asymmetrical pops which seems to be the only consistently identifiable element in his designs. But it's hard to know for sure. I think he was still learning the ropes. Freedom looks an awful lot like Fan-Tas-Tic and doesn't resemble anything else George went on to design. If anything, Freedom is closer Kmiec's general style... reference Old Chicago, Captain Fantastic, especially Night Rider which was designed around the same time.
    OK... let's move on. Of Norm's middle-pop games, the Freedom prototype is the only one to utilize Bally hardware. Which, at the time, was hitting the sweet spot. The Wizard!-era delivered huge backglasses, DC rectification, that sexy curved top rail, and an overall style which would eventually lead to the blockbuster "Class of '81" golden era. The chimes also sounded a helluva lot better than Williams.
    BUT THERE BE TROUBLE!
    As we know, only 100 Freedom prototypes were ever built. Primarily because European distributors didn't "get" the middle-pop thing. They demanded a redesign... and Bally caved in order to sell more units. Which essentially destroyed its fundamental figure-8 geometry and wide shot stance (not to mention the unpredictable fun of the middle-pop).
    Isn't it ironic that a game named "Freedom" of all things, with an over-the-top American theme, gets shut down by fussy Europeans from which Americans came in the first place? I imagine a snooty Frenchman in a beret... "zis meedle-pop bumper... tut tut... no no no... zees will not do at all. Not at all. Just make eet like all ze others. Do eet now... or you... and your MEEDLE-POP BUMPER... can sweem back to America."
    LOL and thus here we are today.
    A lot of rare games and prototypes were made in low quantities because they weren't very good, but this one is definitely an exception. It really is that special. The Freedom prototype is Norm's last, and best, middle-pop game... deployed on the best, and last, Bally EM platform... in its original unmolested form... having escaped with its "Freedom" intact... with a touch of Kmiec's "house energy" in full swing... and is the single best-playing EM I have ever found. The layout is wide, fast, and fun and will teach you new flipper skills in the process. Enough that I think every serious player or collector should have at least one middle-pop in their stable (Fan-Tas-Tic would be the obvious alternative since it offers a similar layout and relatively high production count... can still be had affordably).
    Frankly, I'd like to see a company offer Freedom conversions for non-prototypes. Seems doable. Playfield airbrushing, a few new holes, an extra pop mech... why not?
    So, DEN... if you are not an EM-guy... if you don't enjoy disassembling steppers and relays and rebuilding things by hand... if you don't plan to give this special game a head-to-toe restoration... I suggest passing it on to someone who will do so and put it in front of people who will play it and be entertained by its history. Who knows, since yours is in Europe, maybe that very game was the one which set everyone off? :p
    And yes, I'd also very much like to own it and restore it.

    #35 3 years ago
    Quoted from NicoVolta:

    1970 - Jive Time w/huge backbox spinner

    Over here going "WOO!" like the minority at an away football game.

    #36 3 years ago
    Quoted from DEN:

    Wouwww i really enjoyed readin your post.
    What a storey leason. Thanks.
    Well i have seen one youtube video of a guy who is playing freedom em prototype and it looks hell of a fun.
    But i really dont know about em games. Bought so many of then. When i read this i really want to let it past on to you

    Well then... check your PM's and lemme know!

    #37 3 years ago

    Just ssen it now thanx.

    Also sorry to other pm writers for no answer, havent been on pinside for about a week sorry.

    #38 3 years ago
    Quoted from NicoVolta:

    "zis meedle-pop bumper... tut tut... no no no... zees will not do at all. Not at all. Just make eet like all ze others. Do eet now... or you... and your MEEDLE-POP BUMPER... can sweem back to America."

    french-taunter_(resized).jpg

    Seriously...great post Nico

    #39 3 years ago

    Ok...we know of at least two center-pop Freedoms.

    How many of the others are accounted for?

    E

    #40 3 years ago
    Quoted from electricsquirrel:

    Ok...we know of at least two center-pop Freedoms.
    How many of the others are accounted for?
    E

    I think Brian Saunders in Illinois has at least one as well.

    #41 3 years ago

    John Weeks (Arcade Expo in Banning) has one.

    #42 3 years ago

    I have been offerd 1200for my em proto freedom.

    Uploading few pics.

    When i turn game on a coil called lock clicks on and nothing more happends.

    Game does not start up.

    All offers on mail. Thank you. Now with more pics. It sounds crazy to me offering that much without seeing more pics.

    Game has not been cleaned or norhing. All rubbers are useless. Needs cleaning.
    Game does not work.

    I only want to make open honest deal.

    Its a prototype yes.

    image_(resized).jpeg

    #43 3 years ago

    Wrong pic. Sorry. This is a williams pin. Sorry.

    image_(resized).jpeg

    image_(resized).jpeg

    image_(resized).jpeg

    #44 3 years ago

    Okey these 3 pics are the right pin
    Sorry

    #45 3 years ago

    Playfield is rough, but fixable. It should be airbrushed and professionally clear coated.

    This one is mine (photo from TPF 2016): https://arianaby.smugmug.com/Professional/Texas-Pinball-Festival-VECTOR/i-9TKMNGg/A

    (can't seem to upload pics today... odd)

    My playfield was in WORSE condition... so fear not, it can be saved!

    Note: I had the large white ring area on my playfield resprayed with a lighter shade of white (matched with white pop bumper bodies/flippers). I think this looks ideal... better than dingy faded white.

    #46 3 years ago

    Wouwwww havent seen such love for em games before. Hell never seen anyone in denmark giving ems love

    #47 3 years ago

    Pinsider Mcklit up in Odense was just asking about where to find project pins in Denmark.

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/where-to-buy-project-pin

    I posted a link on his thread, but maybe reach out to him and see if he's interested?

    #48 3 years ago

    Let's not get carried away here - that Freedom is a cool find but I think a couple vocal lunatics in this thread are really overrating both it's awesomeness and it's desireability. I don't think it's worth significantly more than the regular production version, which is a better game anyway. I hate center flipper pop bumper games. Someone offered you 1200 Kroner for it? Is that a lot? If it's 1200 US you should take it in a heartbeat.

    Still that's a very cool haul in Denmark. Those games all look worth saving to me.

    #49 3 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Let's not get carried away here - that Freedom is a cool find but I think a couple vocal lunatics in this thread are really overrating both it's awesomeness and it's desireability. I don't think it's worth significantly more than the regular production version, which is a better game anyway. I hate center flipper pop bumper games. Someone offered you 1200 Kroner for it? Is that a lot? If it's 1200 US you should take it in a heartbeat.
    Still that's a very cool haul in Denmark. Those games all look worth saving to me.

    Outspoken? Yes. Lunatic? No.

    C'mon... history is fun. We can peacefully agree to disagree, aye?

    If you hate middle-pop games that pretty much sums it up. I love 'em and this one in particular is my all-time favorite EM (thus far).

    All good... different strokes as they say.

    BTW if you find a prototype I'll be happy to trade you a revised version for it.

    #50 3 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    I hate center flipper pop bumper games.

    They're different from the normal. I think there's room for all. I know Spanish Eyes is a lot of fun. It's mesmerizing and almost magical when the ball goes down into the center pop bounces around awhile and then comes back onto the playfield. It's like a lazarus but it happens more often.

    Who should say what something this rare is worth? I'm not saying it should be worth more but if there's a buyer as passionate as Nico it would probably be a good deal to take the offer.

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