(Topic ID: 329591)

10K Stepper Unit Coil Locks on at startup Williams Three Deuces

By Flipsteen

8 days ago


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  • Latest reply 2 days ago by Flipsteen
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Three Deuces 10k step up (resized).jpg
10,000 Stepper Unit .pdf (PDF preview)

#1 8 days ago

Just spent the last couple of months restoring a 1955 Williams Three Deuces and now I would love to play this game but there’s an issue.

When turning game on, the 10K Stepper Unit coil immediately locks on and also the score motor spins continuously. Otherwise it goes through a lot of the reset including resetting the 100K stepper and relay bank.

I carefully checked every PF switch to make sure they’re open and looked for any shorts. Haven’t found anything there.

Attaching section of the schematic to see if I’m missing anything else that would fire the 10K stepper unit coil at startup and lock on.

Thanks for any help.

10,000 Stepper Unit .pdf
#2 8 days ago

Did you check the bumper relay?

#3 8 days ago

Yes all sws open on bumper relay

#4 7 days ago

There are three main circuits into the 10k step up solenoid.
Three Deuces 10k step up (resized).jpg
I'd start by blocking switches like the 3 Queens relay and 100k Zero position switches to see if you can determine which which of the three paths is the problem.

/Mark

#5 7 days ago

Blocked the 3 Queens relay and 100K Zero position sws and 10K still locks on.

Also made sure other associated sws Bumper Relay, Kicker sws and Counter sws are all open.

#6 7 days ago

What if you unplug the playfield or other jones plugs?

#7 7 days ago

Unplugging one of the jones plugs to PF still get lights but no startup. Other jones plugs no power.

#8 7 days ago

Is your Reset relay stuck on? That would explain the motor running. Advancing the 10k stepper is part of reset I think.

#9 7 days ago

Might start by seeing if you can cut out the path to the kicker/counter switches. Since you've blocked / inspected everything may have to desolder a few wires.

Those are the simplest paths so they seem most likely

#10 7 days ago
Quoted from MarkG:

Is your Reset relay stuck on? That would explain the motor running. Advancing the 10k stepper is part of reset I think.

Yes Reset relay is stuck on. Advancing 100K releases Reset relay, stops motor and game plays. But this is with 10K coil disconnected otherwise just touching 10K wire to 10K terminal fires 10K without any closed pf switches associated with 10K.

Thought it might be one of the pf sws associated with 10K might be shorted to common wire that is daisy chained on the pf. If I measure ohms from 10K coil to common pf wire I get 0.4 ohms. Does this indicate short?

#11 7 days ago
Quoted from dr_nybble:

Might start by seeing if you can cut out the path to the kicker/counter switches. Since you've blocked / inspected everything may have to desolder a few wires.
Those are the simplest paths so they seem most likely

Starting to think in that direction since I inspected entire underside of pf for shorts and don't see any.

#12 7 days ago
Quoted from Flipsteen:

If I measure ohms from 10K coil to common pf wire I get 0.4 ohms. Does this indicate short?

.4 ohms would indicate a short. Compare it to touching your probes together. About the same?

If you have .4 ohms between the 10 and 71 wires they are connected somewhere. Pulling jones plugs or desoldering wires may help isolate the problem.

#13 7 days ago

Mark - if I pull a Jones plug, then what?

#14 7 days ago

If you pull a jones plug and the solenoid lets go the circuit that's providing power to the solenoid goes through the jones plug. It's a way to help figure out what part of the game the problem is in (playfield, cabinet, backbox, coin door, etc.).

#15 2 days ago
Quoted from dr_nybble:

Might start by seeing if you can cut out the path to the kicker/counter switches. Since you've blocked / inspected everything may have to desolder a few wires.
Those are the simplest paths so they seem most likely

Problem solved! Desoldered one of the kickers, then a counter switch, and finally on the third desolder of a counter sw got a good reading on ohm meter. Examined the sw closely and couldn't find anything and resoldered and everything works. So it was definitely that counter sw but still a mystery where it was making contact.

I previously had pf lights and scoring but suddenly that's not working so I must have disconnected something in the above exercise. Back to the drawing board, I mean schematic. Thanks for your help @MMarkG and dr_nybble.

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