(Topic ID: 17941)

1080 WoZ video's from E3.. Flipping, Witch Melt, Spinning House, Witches Castle


By alexlevy

7 years ago



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  • 103 posts
  • 50 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by DCFAN
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There are 103 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 3.
#51 7 years ago
Quoted from MrSanRamon:

hawkeye11 said:

I'm a player, I'm interested in gameplay. I'm really not seeing anything that groundbreaking. Looking forward to seeing the actual ruleset.
The mini-playfield looks like a snooze fest; never really like them.
Robert

The nice thing about these mini-playfields in WOZ is that they feed quickly back to the flippers when they exit. I think a lot of mini-playfields have a lag when putting the ball back to the main playield, but the wireforms in WOZ will have the action never really lagging (especially the witch's castle does not appear to have any ball locks, I am not sure about the spinning house playfield and whether there is a ball lock there).

#52 7 years ago
Quoted from NY2Colorado:

Pinball always seems so clunky and slow with no music to tie it all together.

AFM, SM, NO FEAR, IM, I'm sure those were fun and flow-y from start.

#53 7 years ago

Not every pin should be a fan pattern. That would just be boring.

Also, most said that SM was not a great game until the code was updated.

#54 7 years ago
Quoted from GoBlue:

Maybe I exaggerated a little, but there is a lot of WOZ theme bashing on this site!

because of the theme, yes - but overall JJP gets a pass on that given they entered the pinball making business to offer an alternative to Stern. Could you imagine the shellacking Stern would have gotten if they announced a WOZ theme back in 2010/11?

#55 7 years ago
Quoted from kmoore88:

because of the theme, yes - but overall JJP gets a pass on that given they entered the pinball making business to offer an alternative to Stern. Could you imagine the shellacking Stern would have gotten if they announced a WOZ theme back in 2010/11?

That is because it would not only be a disliked theme for many guys, but also have incomplete code and inferior construction quality.

#56 7 years ago
Quoted from GoBlue:

That is because it would not only be a disliked theme for many guys, but also have incomplete code and inferior construction quality.

The 1,500+ X-men thread would seem to suggest theme trumps some of those other perceived issues.

#57 7 years ago
Quoted from bigehrl:

yep.
you, mike (island), 2 for me, and 2 for pinaholic.
and those are just the ones i know of...
-jon

Another on LI going in my basement..

-1
#58 7 years ago

That's my whole point. Lots of people saying this is the second coming of pinball, but it just looks like a standard pinball to me. I'm not saying it's a bad thing either (except for the theme), but it's not revolutionary.

Quoted from DCFAN:

I am not sure Jalpert wants pinball to be pinball anymore. What is supposed to change to make it next generation? JJP is making new toys, new lighting systems, LCD instead of antiquated DMD and new improved playfield and cabinet printing. If you change it in more drastic ways it probably becomes something other than pinball like video games or redemption games.

#59 7 years ago
Quoted from jalpert:

That's my whole point. Lots of people saying this is the second coming of pinball, but it just looks like a standard pinball to me. I'm not saying it's a bad thing either (except for the theme), but it's not revolutionary.

Exactly! We don't want revolutionary pinball, we want high quality pinball with many complex features. That is what JJP is striving for and looks like they will attain.

#60 7 years ago

Lets give Stern a little more credit than that. Stern is an old school company with an established track record. Stern has had years of customer feedback via people who have spoken with their dollars for a long period of time.

Jersey Jack is brand new, it's great that they are reaching out to the community, but they don't have some of the other tools that Stern has in terms of feedback.

Also, Stern is an old school company and has struggled with social media etc, they are getting there.

Like AC/DC or hate it, they have kicked it up a notch, probably because of WoZ. The LEDs(in this capacity), the color changing inserts, the improved sound system the 12" sub are all things we haven't seen before.

WoZ also kicks it up a notch, the LCD display is interesting, but I don't really see anything groundbreaking. Maybe we'll find out more as the weeks progress.

I'll be curious to see how long it takes them to ship.

Quoted from Pinchroma:

The one thing I can tell immediately that differs JJP from Stern is that Customer Input is key to him. He reads the forums and subsequently posts to get input and insight from his target audience. I haven't seen any correspondence from Stern on these forums soliciting feedback.

#61 7 years ago
Quoted from jalpert:

That's my whole point. Lots of people saying this is the second coming of pinball, but it just looks like a standard pinball to me. I'm not saying it's a bad thing either (except for the theme), but it's not revolutionary.
DCFAN said:I am not sure Jalpert wants pinball to be pinball anymore. What is supposed to change to make it next generation? JJP is making new toys, new lighting systems, LCD instead of antiquated DMD and new improved playfield and cabinet printing. If you change it in more drastic ways it probably becomes something other than pinball like video games or redemption games.

I think your definition of revolutionary is a bit skewed. Maybe it's not Revolutionary but It is certainly evolutionary. There are things never done before. For one full Internet access, credit cards direct, chances are wireless Internet updates, direct score posting, opportunities for video recording and head to head play over the Internet.

You really are missing the big picture. This isn't some 65meg (ac/dc) basic codebin. This is a complete framework. None of what stern has can do this. That's a fact. Looking at ac/dc and no doubt x-men the base platform just isnt capable of any of it. It will be a ground up start for stern just as it is for JJP. You are looking at the shell and not what will hatch in due time.

Jack isnt changing the game of pinball. He is expanding its reach and capabilities.

And imagine all of that without sacrificing or cutting corners. The quality of this machine is 5 fold what stern is coming out with at essentially the same base cost but with limitless possibilities for expansion.

Imagine game tournaments from players all over the globe all synced up to a common tournament ruleset. Things like that are what will bring pinball back.

#62 7 years ago

The 1,500+ X-men thread would seem to suggest theme trumps some of those other perceived issues.

Yeah, no doubt! Theme is important!

423527_3094067225587_1081238173_329877.jpg

#63 7 years ago

I was talking with Gary one day about 1.5 years ago with 2 or 3 other local pinheads. One of them asked Gary what would happen if another pinball manufacturer came onto the scene, is there enough room in the market for two. He said literally, either they will close or we will.

Granted things have changed, B/W stuff is harder to find and going through the roof freeing up more money for NIB purchases etc. But what if things haven't changed that much?

Let's not forget that for a lot of years, Stern was the only company in town making pinball machines. love them or hate them, they are the ones that kept it alive.

Quoted from DCFAN:

Exactly! We don't want revolutionary pinball, we want high quality pinball with many complex features. That is what JJP is striving for and looks like they will attain.

#64 7 years ago

Yet. Sterns next board set is right around the corner. I agree that it's not coming quite fast enough for my taste, but nobody knows what's right around the corner.

Quoted from Pinchroma:

You really are missing the big picture. This isn't some 65meg (ac/dc) basic codebin. This is a complete framework. None of what stern has can do this.

Love it.

Quoted from Pinchroma:

Imagine game tournaments from players all over the globe all synced up to a common tournament ruleset. Things like that are what will bring pinball back.

#65 7 years ago
Quoted from jalpert:

I was talking with Gary one day about 1.5 years ago with 2 or 3 other local pinheads. One of them asked Gary what would happen if another pinball manufacturer came onto the scene, is there enough room in the market for two. He said literally, either they will close or we will.
Granted things have changed, B/W stuff is harder to find and going through the roof freeing up more money for NIB purchases etc. But what if things haven't changed that much?
Let's not forget that for a lot of years, Stern was the only company in town making pinball machines. love them or hate them, they are the ones that kept it alive.
DCFAN said:

Exactly! We don't want revolutionary pinball, we want high quality pinball with many complex features. That is what JJP is striving for and looks like they will attain.

I see what you are saying, and if you look at my collection I have LOTR LE and SM that are keepers. I don't want either company to fail. I think pinball is growing because there is new blood filtering in mainly because of Farsight's console pinball games (The Williams Collection and Pinball Arcade) bringing new interest to pinball or rekindling old pinball interests. I just would like to see Stern start evolving and they look like they have started with the AC/DC design and the rumors that they are working on an LCD system. I also think they need to continue to make more complex toys and definitely need to integrate a stereo sound system in all pins like Bally and Williams slot machines are now doing.
Additionally, I agree that theme is also important. AC/DC was a big band until about 1981, but their time was long gone by the time I was a teenager and they were not even getting the radio play that other groups such as Led Zeppelin were getting. Transformers was after my childhood since it was invented when I was 16 years old and past the age of toys. Somehow I have not watched the XMen movies and they did not have any XMen cartoons when I was a kid, but I am interested in watching the XMen movies now since the Avengers and the other movies associated such as Iron man were enjoyable. The lack of an LCD is a no-go for me for any pins right now. I will wait and see how the LCD in WOZ is before buying another pin. The evolution to LCD is happening whether you resist it or not.

#66 7 years ago

You may love WOZ or you may hate it, but you will never confuse it with a Stern. I'm not saying this with a positive or negative tone. I am only saying it to shed light on the fact that JJP is certainly a "different" manufacturer than Stern. We have 2, lucky us. If other ventures pan out we may have as many as 5 by the end of 2013; crazy good pinball times we are living in.
Terry.

#67 7 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

AC/DC was a big band until about 1981

WOZ was a huge movie in 1939. What was the point again ?

Jim

#68 7 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

AC/DC was a big band until about 1981

I'm no fan of AC/DC's music, but look who stands at #3 on the following list for their tour from 2010. I'd say they're still relevant...

http://www.billboard.com/features/the-year-in-music-2010-1004133971.story#/features/top-25-tours-2010-1004134022.story

#69 7 years ago

"Peek of your power" and "timeless" are 2 different things. IMHO, "timeless" is more important. Katie Perry is at the peek of her power, but that says very little about her position in the history books (it has yet to be written). Both AC/DC and Wizard of Oz have stood the test of time - i.e. they are timeless, so saying one is dated and the other isn't is a moot point. They're BOTH dated and they're BOTH timeless.
Terry.

#70 7 years ago
Quoted from pinballlife:

They're BOTH dated and they're BOTH timeless.

Well said Terry !

Jim

#71 7 years ago
Quoted from McCune:

DCFAN said:

AC/DC was a big band until about 1981
WOZ was a huge movie in 1939. What was the point again ?
Jim

AC/DC is very heavy metal that only has a small demographic of fans that happen to be very loyal/avid. WOZ is a family movie that is all encompassing demographically. That is the point. I listened to AC/DC when I was 12 years old and then grew up and AC/DC did not make much music at that point that was memorable. TNT and Dirty Deeds were memorable for their catchy sounds/phrases. After that, bands that had more harmony, melody and deepness such as Led Zep, U2, The Who, The Police, REM, etc. dominated the airwaves.

#73 7 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

AC/DC is very heavy metal that only has a small demographic of fans that happen to be very loyal/avid. WOZ is a family movie that is all encompassing demographically.

WoZ is not "all encompassing" when it comes to a theme that pinheads want.

#74 7 years ago

Pinheads are already being catered to with Stern's themes. What about everyone else outside the pinhead demographic? What's so bad about considering the other 7 billion people on the planet (or at least not trying to outright ignore 3.5 billion of them)?

#75 7 years ago

I just want them all. I loved WOZ when I was a kid, and was the lion in drama in high-school. X-men was my favorite comic, and I'm family friends with interm drummer of AC/DC In the 80's Simon. I like both companies, and would buy any of the machines. I love pinball. P.s. I think WOZ looks amazing. It won't flow too bad, but is not going to be a speed demon either. The spinning house mini playfield reminds me of the jump shot on NF, I really don't like the looks of the witches castle playfield. Could of came up with something else. Still looks wonderful and I would love to own one.

#76 7 years ago

Not sure if I like it but I certainly hope it plays well and and the normal model continues to sell well on down the line. One, because several of my friends spent a lot of money on one and I hope it is all that and more. Two, because I want to see the other titles JJP puts out in two, five, ten years from now (Hobbit.) He won't be able to do that if this ends up not being fun to play.

#77 7 years ago
Quoted from jalpert:

If Wizard Of Oz is your bag it looks like fun. For the rest of us it doesn't look like it's anything special. It's got a bunch of toys, and a couple mini play fields to break up the flow nicely, but besides an LCD how is this a next generation pinball?

It's only "next gen" if it has internet connectivity IMO. As soon as one manufacturer adds that, it will be necessary for every other manufacturer to have it. I know Stern is working on this too, so I have to assume JJP will have it. Since their system is running Linux, I think it's going to be likely they have a tcp/IP interface.

#78 7 years ago
Quoted from SecretSaver:

From the videos, this game has tons of cool toys, but terrible and I mean Champion Pub terrible flow, or lack of flow. Remember that game had lots of cool toys too, but man was it a dog to play. I hope my initial impressions are wrong, but right now I am really hoping the rumor is true that Lawlor is on board for game two.

When I think of Lawlor, I don't think of "flow". I think of pop bumpers down near the flippers and a lot of stop and go while some mode is being announced.

What's John Trudeau doing these days? Until I saw Judge Dredd, I thought I knew what "flow" was. JD is one of the most fluid, fast-paced games I've ever played.

#79 7 years ago
Quoted from jalpert:

Yet. Sterns next board set is right around the corner. I agree that it's not coming quite fast enough for my taste, but nobody knows what's right around the corner.

What has Stern done that makes you think they are gonna do something new and innovative?The new board set is being developed to keep up with JJP.Stern had an entire decade to innovate....nothing happened.Now they're trying to keep up with a new company that technically hasn't released a game yet.The LCD backbox will be the milemarker for the future.Every major tech development started with the scoreboard.Reels,SS,alphanumeric,DMD.None of us know what the future holds,but I wouldn't count on Stern to break new ground.Honestly I'm more impressed with the Pinball 2000 technology.I thought that was the future of pinball when it came out.I'm surprised Stern or any manufacturer didn't explore the possibilities of expanding on what pinball 2000 started.Scott

#80 7 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

We should get a bunch of us Jersey Guys to visit Jack. (I'm going end of June, early July)

Attachments jscrow.gif (8 KB, 0 downloads) 10 hours old

I'd go in a heartbeat... LMK

Brian

#81 7 years ago
Quoted from jackofdiamonds:

Stern had an entire decade to innovate....nothing happened.

Argh. That's not exactly true, right. Movie clips on DMD (I hate it, but), shot multiplier, LED lighting, the ring. To name some.

JJP have made a HUGH investment. Little speaks for them seeing any profit for years. Why should Stern have done such a thing?

The LCD is the most dominent thing (innovation, as it's called) from JJP. I don't see any relevance for that (size and usage) on a pinball machine. Still doesn't. If Stern should have moved anything in that department. It would've made sense to upgrade for a DMD of a multi-colour LED based type. Maybe they should have done that. Hopefully they will.

Quoted from jackofdiamonds:

Honestly I'm more impressed with the Pinball 2000 technology.I thought that was the future of pinball when it came out.I'm surprised Stern or any manufacturer didn't explore the possibilities of expanding on what pinball 2000 started.Scott

Come on. Given a home gameroom or location with a Spiderman and a Revenge From Mars. You honestly believe, that RFM would add up the most games?

I would love to have seen more P2K games and perhaps some would be a much better integration of the video element. But it just too expensive to produce.

#82 7 years ago

It's easier to start with a blank sheet and "innovate". If you've got 5000 boards hanging around then you want to use them and all their associated hardware. It's not so easy to run out the stock all at the same time and have a completely new system ready to go, retool your wiring line etc.
As for innovation, the new SAM boardset has more on it that is currently used. I personally like updating the code via the usb rather than having to blow chips...

Quoted from jackofdiamonds:

jalpert said:

Yet. Sterns next board set is right around the corner. I agree that it's not coming quite fast enough for my taste, but nobody knows what's right around the corner.
What has Stern done that makes you think they are gonna do something new and innovative?The new board set is being developed to keep up with JJP.Stern had an entire decade to innovate....nothing happened.Now they're trying to keep up with a new company that technically hasn't released a game yet.

#83 7 years ago

Jon, just ordered another. Possibly to leave in box.

#84 7 years ago
Quoted from coasterguy:

Regarding the theme. I have spoke with many folks outside the pinball world about WOZ. It is pretty amazing how many of them could care less about pinball until I say WOZ is coming and it has never been done before. They typically light up bit and say I want to come see it when you get it. Ladies and kids typically and some men but interested in the least. Good for pinball. I do believe that Jack picked a good starter theme. I really do.

My wife is the same way. She is not really interested in pinball, but when I told her a WOZ was coming she got excited. Of course, when I told her how much it was, she said "forget it". I wonder how many of those people that are not pinball fans will buy the machine becuase of the theme.

#85 7 years ago
Quoted from soren:

jackofdiamonds said:Stern had an entire decade to innovate....nothing happened.
Argh. That's not exactly true, right. Movie clips on DMD

Sega did this before Stern, so technically it's not a Stern innovation.
Stern did give us lighter machines though. Is that an innovation?
As for a shot multiplier being an innovation; I'd call that more of a good rule idea than an innovation. If that's an innovation then we are setting the bar kinda low.
Tron LE's color changing ramp lights are the closest thing to a Stern innovation, IMHO. These lights were not even Stern's idea, BTW. This idea was brought to them from the outside. At least Stern was smart enough to see that they were a cool thing and use them.
Gary Stern spent years saying "we make traditional pinball machines", which is another way of saying "we don't innovate".
Scott

#86 7 years ago

Do we really have to argue stern vs jjp and all this other crap in EVERY damn WOZ thread??

Anyways: I like everything I've seen so far, but I wish the witch was a little more noticeable. From the vid it seems like it's kind of hard to see her behind the shell protecting her, but maybe I'm a little wrong. I like how the melts with each ball hit and all in all everything works for me!

#87 7 years ago
Quoted from spanks_4:

I like everything I've seen so far, but I wish the witch was a little more noticeable. From the vid it seems like it's kind of hard to see her behind the shell protecting her, but maybe I'm a little wrong. I like how the melts with each ball hit and all in all everything works for me!

If I understand correctly, home owners will be able to remove the "shell" around the witch to make her more visible. Similar to the big shield that was protecting the ship on POTC. We'll see, but the melting effect looks pretty cool! It's great to have immediate feedback from a toy when hitting an associated switch, great for those who don't look up to the display to notice they're hitting the rights shot, like my old man (who's a pretty decent player for his age) (sorry dad, you're not old).

#88 7 years ago

Hey Scott. Data East, Sega, Stern. Same company. Actually, they just celebrate 25 years.

Tron Legacy LE brought ramp light. Correct. As well as the disc.

#89 7 years ago

Spinning rubber disc was out a very long time ago *think fireball EM*... twister, and a few others had the spinning disc thing it just wasn't trapped in like on tron.

#90 7 years ago
Quoted from soren:

Come on. Given a home gameroom or location with a spiderman and a Revenge From Mars. You honestly believe, that RFM would add up the most games?

Home gameroom no, but I think on location it would be interesting to see. I had my RFM out for a week with two other pins - a Tommy and a Batman Forever. I expected the Tommy to make the most because it was part of a cross promotion with a movie theater that was showing Tommy, but at the end of the week, RFM had more coin in it than Tommy and Batman put together.

Having said that, I have said this time and time again before in other places, but what innovation do you all really expect? How can you innovate a game to be different while retaining it as a pinball? Everyone says this, but no one has any real idea - beyond the cabinet and infrastructure of the games themselves, there isn't really that much that you can innovate on and still have it feel like a pinball machine. Jack has put an LCD in the back for the displays, put card readers onto the machine by default, and they are supposedly internet enabled. That is HUGE innovation if you care to see it.

Stern, by the way, has innovation too. Their biggest innovation has to do with the USB updates, but that isn't the only thing they have done. But... pinball doesn't need tons of innovation because ultimately the thing that matters - the game itself - doesn't have tons more innovation to do with it. The ball can only interact with the flippers in so many ways, and games that have tried to extend just what the player can do (CP, I'm lookin' at you) don't generally do really well because the changes aren't as good as the flipper.

So anyway, they are all doing just fine. We might see Stern upgrade their boardset to do an LCD or otherwise, but I'll also point out that when Pinball 2000 came out, the hit pinball at that time was South Park. I also don't think that a 'lack' of X-Men sales because people want an LCD is going to happen, either. I guess we'll just wait and see!

#91 7 years ago
Quoted from jalpert:

For the rest of us it doesn't look like it's anything special.

The one thing I noticed, besides the mini-playfield looking boring, was that the pop bumpers seemed slow to react and not very powerful. I'm thinking it's because of the additional mass of the tree things on top of them.

Perhaps that will change in the released game.

Difficult to tell if the game will be fun at this stage.

The other comment I have is that it seems like JJP took about every comment someone has made about what they'd like to see in a machine and put in in WoZ. I don't think we'll see another machine, for this price point at least, ever made again.

Robert

#92 7 years ago

Are the feet still as big as the house?

wizardhouse.jpg

#93 7 years ago

Seriously how else are you going to see it otherwise? Remember this is a mini toy located far back on the playfield.

#94 7 years ago

I just think it looks cheesy in the video. The house would look better without the giant feet popping out the side. Maybe it looks better in person.

#95 7 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Jersey Party coming sooon! Let's all get in touch...

<img src="http://forum-img.pinside.com/pinball/forum/?bb_attachments=277755&bbat=30587&inline" width="230" height="38">

<div class="bb_attachments"><h3>Attachments</h3>

  1. <span> <img align="absmiddle" title="gif" src="/pinball/forum/my-plugins/bb-attachments/icons/img.gif"> dancing_fruit.gif <span class="num">(16.7 KB, 0 downloads)</span> <small>19 hours old</small> </span>
</div>

Will PM you my contact info Ted. I'm in...

Brian

#96 7 years ago
Quoted from Kevgascan:

<P>I just think it looks cheesy in the video. The house would look better without the giant feet popping out the side. Maybe it looks better in person. </P>

I am sure you could disable the feet if you do not like them just like you could probably disable that game slowing view blocking moving ramp in XMen LE.

#97 7 years ago

<P>Will PM you my contact info Ted. I'm in...</P>
<P>Brian </P>

Got it! Will stay in touch!

witch_flies_4.gif

#99 7 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

It is funny how generational themes can be. I am 43 and was 16 when Transformers was invented so I have absolutely no interest in that theme. It came after I was too old to play with toys anymore. That theme has a very limited age group to appeal to (basically 40 and under, and normally people that are under 25 years old don't have money to buy NIB pinball machines).

I grew up playing with the toys, the movies were bleh minus the third being o.k. because it was in 3D and the game was ok but didn't really pull me in after a few dozen plays...

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