There are also machines not on his list but I am basing my count on what a 10x40 storage unit will hold and what I see in pictures not on his list of machines. I can get about 40 complete woodrails in a 10x20 unit but that is stacking heads on top of most bodies. This appears to be a 10 (or 12) X 40 unit and isn't even packed as high as I typically stack so there is now way I am seeing anything close to 100 machines in those pictures.

Sounds good! If there is anything I can do to help feel free to ask. To me the only "good deal" is a deal where both seller & buyer feel like the got a great deal. The hard part is getting to that number & in this case for someone local I would think that number should be around 40% of asking price or slightly less than that. When I price lots I base my price on my full cost not just what I am paying for the item - that is my true cost. That true cost in this case would include several nights in a motel - lots of miles driven & fuel used -etc. Typically someone local can pay more and still get a "fair deal".

If a good many machines are worth salvaging that is great. If not then anything much over 40% of original asking price is likely too much for these (even for someone local) and 30% is more realistic if someone has to travel to get them.

Are they machine from the guys stuff that people asked about or are they from someone else? Can you please let the community know if your buyer & the seller end up making a deal. I don't think it is anyone's business what the final price is but I am sure some people will ask!

The one with the minstrel man? I went and looked at that - they had some high bids already. If you still have that knockout playfield and want to move it - let me know.

These are definitely Jack's machines. My only hope is that whoever eventually buys these machines does not take the above statements as absolute truth. Half of my collection came from Silverman's third auction and storage unit finds. If you can match paint schemes on a head and body, take a few pictures of mechanicals so people like myself who know what we are looking at can see if it is "mostly" complete mechanically WE WILL BUY THEM before you destroy them parting them out. Just because you can't fix it doesn't mean somebody else can't. I have no interest in buying all of them but I see at least 10 that I would love to have.

I never part out anything worth saving and typically end up saving machines most people would part out but when you have heads with no bodies & no backglasses, bodies with no heads, cabinets that look like someone used them for a boat, etc some machines just are not worth trying to save. There were some great project machines at the Silverman auction but I let people willing to pay a few bucks for those buy all they wanted. With the exception of 3 or 4 machines everything I bought was priced under $25 and condition was why those machines sold that cheap.

As I said in an earlier post nearly half the machines at that auction sold for just a few dollars & most of those were parts machines. For the most part machines selling in the $35 & up range were machines that might have been worth trying to save but very little of the "real junk" from that auction was worth trying to save. Of the first 26 machines I bought originally I think 8 lived on and the others were strictly parts.

Anyway - it sounds like these machines might have a better ratio of full machines then some of the lots at Silverman's sale. In any event I truly hope the buyer will process then correctly

Point I'm trying to make is that the first line in the reply that I quoted was "From my experience with units like this it will be lots of heads without bodies, bodies without heads". The first two OP's pictures show mostly bodies, the third picture shows corresponding heads so your upper reply does not really apply in this situation.

Can you fit 100 machines in a 12'x40'?

yes

Maybe but not without stacking so I think count will be more like 80 to 85 from the pictures. Hard to say 100% for sure but I find it highly unlikely there is exactly 100 machines in that unit.

I did see some matching heads & bodies but didn't try to see exactly how many. Sometimes stuff stays together rather nicely - other times bodies and heads are stored in different areas and 1/2 of some machines end up getting sold in different lots. All that is stuff that needs to be considered when making an offer and being "fair" to everyone involved.

Those sure look like Jack's hoard. I tried putting together a similar deal with that guy several years ago (~200 machines @ $150). We went back and forth like 20 times and Jack kept changing his tune and his price. I never felt he was serious about selling the whole lot at once, despite the perennial Mr. Pinball ads. Like many hoarders, he'll sell individual machines to people he deems worthy but will always squirm out of parting with the actual hoard. I think these are machines he bought and operated in the late '50s & '60s and he's somehow attached to them, but wants the money too. He's conflicted and non compos mentis. Hopefully you'll have better luck!

I tried to buy a Heath lock from him and he changed his mind a few times on that!

Hoarders are emotionally attached to their stuff and believe their stuff is way more valuable than it is.

I have never dealt with or had a conversation with Jack that didn't involve over the top pricing or a dragging of feet when it came sale time, good luck!

Sounds about right.

I guess Jack likes the haggling more than he likes the money, plus he gets a lot of attention from the procession of collectors trying to reel in his tantalizing pile of machines. I too had read the RGP threads about him but I was too starry-eyed to listen. I'm sure glad now the deal never happened - I would have overpaid and been driven crazy by Jack's idiosyncrasies.

His heirs or probate will probably be the ones selling off that sad, picked-over collection.

Value? Zero dollars and zero cents.

I have a feeling the purpose of this entire post was to get some ammunition towards proving the asking price was unrealistic on this lot of machines. If these are indeed Jack's machines it sounds like it will not help anyway. I know I have seen post about him before but I never paid much attention to them since machines were basically far enough away that it really didn't matter to me. I just hope buyer & seller can make a deal so these machines can see the light of day again instead of sitting in a storage unit. Seeing stuff just sitting like this always makes me sad!

Dealt with Jack in the past Decade and he's not someone I found interesting, or very honest when it comes to intention to get rid of games. The assessments of his behavior in this and other threads are accurate to the T. Don't waste your time with it, or if you do learn from it and come here to share what you experienced was indeed exactly what folks warned you about.

Skip: You are constantly saying things like this, and to base woodrail market on that HORRIBLY run and marketed third Silverman auction is a mistake IMO. I know you are also basing it on selling in your own market and from past experience, but you tend to lean on that auction as your prime example.

I didn't even KNOW that auction was happening. I'm a HUGE woodrail guy...I would've bought many of those games and not just for the lockdown bars. LOL. That's after contacting Morphy's before his FIRST auction, telling them which auction I was interested in, receiving countless notices to auctions that had no pinballs, only to here about it AFTER it happened. And what I heard was a total shitshow...not enough time to look over the games, auctioneers that went too fast...and many other horror stories. If they'd run it better, they certainly could have got better prices for those games. I probably would've bought way more games than I should have there, and people who know what a "hoarder" I am would back me up all day on that claim.

Good for the guy who's closer considering buying these games who's wasn't scared away by all the horror stories of Jack's games perpetuated by somewhat hysterical online posters. I heard from countless sources over the years that Jack's games are in terrible shape and to STAY AWAY, yet here's a guy who managed to buy a bunch and sell most of them off...hmmm...something doesn't add up? Alotta BS, posturing, and parroting on these forums...RGP before it, and now here on Spinside. YMMV...

Sean

That's what I always remember hearing too. To stay away as it was a bunch of poorly stored games in bad condition. I pictured them being half rotted in a leaky barn or something. Seeing the pics at the top of this post looks far more promising. Like you say now it makes me wonder why so many tried to steer everyone clear from this pile of games.

I have never dealt with Jack but I remember in my early days of collecting he was buying up woodrails like crazy. This was back when the market for them was pretty strong and the Europeans where buying them up as well. Even though he likely bought right at the time I bet he is taking a considerable loss at $125 a game. Just may be a consideration as to why he is hesitant to deal.

The above quote is the correct answer. Everyone in Cincinnati has had exactly one run-in with Jack. He is a time waster and isn't really interested in selling anything, but he will occasionally let go of one game at a time just to keep folks calling and visiting. He will get your hopes up, and you will think you are about to come into a giant hoard of games, and he will always pull the rug out from under you in the end. It is assumed around here that those games will eventually be sold at the eventual estate auction.

Unless you're into woodrails!!

You’re not paying attention... see post just above yours. It is a fake sale where the seller changes his mind once you show interest.

Sean,

You are 100% correct as far as my experience with woodrail machines being mostly stuff directly or indirectly from Silverman's Auctions but as far as my experience with bulk buys & warehouse deals they always seem to be pretty much the same thing (regardless of the source). Heads with no bodies, bodies with no heads, major parts cut out of machines, etc. In the 10+ years I have been in the hobby I have had at least one "major" deal each year (deals involving a dozen or more machines & typically in excess of 25 machines and it has always been the same - looking quickly everything looks great then once you look closer you realize just how bad the machines actually are). Yes 3 or 4 of these deals somehow involved the Silverman Collection but another dozen or more deals had nothing to do with his machines.

By now most machines that were worth saving have been saved or have become trash due to owners neglect. It is really sad to see some of this stuff in person! But bottom line is it happened & we can't change that. All we can do is to try to save what can be saved and part out the rest so other machines can live on.

Those people who know me personally know I don't part out stuff worth saving and save EVERY part off every machine I part out. Then I do my best to get those parts to people who need them as cheaply as possible. At the same time I fix up as many machines as possible and sell off project machines I don't have time to fix in a timely manner to keep stuff moving. None of this is for the money - it is to save as many machines as possible. When it comes to the money end of things it is always the same also - in the end I make less than $3 an hour doing my pinball hobby stuff. Great for a hobby but not a way to make a living!