Greenville, SC
A fun this or that...
One HEP restored grail pin (in my case that’s either Twilight Zone or Indiana Jones Pinball Adventure) or 2 modern Sterns? You could probably get either 2 new pros or 2 used premiums.
(Topic ID: 258165)
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For those who are saying that the HEP is more expensive that I estimated, what does HEP Twilight Zone cost? I was assuming somewhere around $12k-$13k based on the pricing estimate listed on the HEP website.
Quoted from High_End_Pins:You probably won’t ever get a real number out of that inquiry.
A game that can use its original playfield and cabinet with stainless steel trim and a standard dmd won’t cost anywhere near what a game that gets a new cabinet,playfield,chrome ,colordmd and every mod available does.
This is why I stick to labor cost only. That is the only variable I can figure out upfront.
Ah the wizard himself! 
Big fan of your work!
Makes sense, however based on the website it appears you also offer to do the whole process like finding a game that you think would be a solid restoration project. So if I were a customer and was like “hey I’m dying to get a HEP Twlight Zone and don’t currently have one, what’s the general range we’re looking at if you find me a game worth restoration?”
The range could include things like “$X if standard restoration on decent machine to $X if chrome, color dmd, and some mods on a crappy machine.” Or “across 15 Twilight Zones the mean was $X.” But yeah it’s totally cool if this isn’t good info to put out on the interwebs.
Quoted from High_End_Pins:Here are just two extreme hypothetical situations with TZ and it might help make it that much easier to understand
1)
I found a local HUO TZ that has a perfect cabinet and just a slightly dulled playfield.
It was $4500 no shipping required to get it here.
You want it to remain stick no mods
$500 roughly in parts
$4500 in labor since the cabinet doesn’t have to be completely redone just freshened up. The playfield will get torn down etc all the “HEP” stuff
$9500 total in theory.
2)
Found a TZ that looks like a good candidate for $5500 it needs to be shipped $5950
Comes in shows some slight moisture issues
You want chrome,colt dmd,LEDocd,LEDs,this robot,that figure,this clock cover,third magnet,clear ramp,new plastic set,light up star post etc etc
Parts and mods $5500
Labor $6500 plus an extra $500-$1000 depending on mod implementation,plating needs etc.
You could have a $17-19k game in total and say “how expensive HEP is” but at the end of the day I only made $2000 more building the $19k game than I did building the $9.5k game.
This is what few understand even the ones that spend the money sometimes.
It isn’t about HEP beyond the process itself it is about needs and choices.
For someone is very interested in your work, this explanation was SUPER helpful... Thank you!!
Quoted from athens95:If you have a small, or no collection currently you have to go with multiple games over a single one. It’s fun to play a crazy clean machine, but if that machine is yours you have to maintain it to a higher level and can’t enjoy it as much as beating on fun “daily driver” types of games.
Once you fill your space, then it is time to work towards trade ups.
What’s the magic number for you before you have that critical mass? 5 pins?
Edit: I just saw that you own 45, so I assume more!
Quoted from DaveH:If you have to ask, you can’t afford it.
A HEP game is special. They cost crazy money, because they are worth it. It will play better than it did when they pulled it out of the box. Therefore, it should never be about this or that with a HEP game. It should only be about HEP or not. So if it is a decision between things, get the other. If there is a grail game and you have cash to burn, get the HEP and love it.
Why does considering the opportunity cost mean that I or someone else couldn’t afford HEP? Even if I had $10 million lying around for disposable hobby income, I could still decide between 2 modern Sterns or 1 HEP with the cash I’m about to spend on games.
Regardless, it’s not like HEP is only for the super wealthy. It’s all about how you prioritize your hobby cash and opportunity costs which is why this poll and generally split results are interesting to me. If you think HEP is worth it, great! I’m leaning toward agreeing with you if I get to 5 pins as my threshold before upgrading one to HEP. But half this thread seems to disagree (even those who own 30+ pins), and that’s OK too.
I see you own 22 games - how many of those are HEP? If a single one is not HEP, then why don’t you trade in two or three of your other pins to upgrade to HEP? See I am assuming even you consider opportunity cost of high end restorations with your large collection.
MK6PIN everything you just said in your post makes sense. However even if the two things considered are totally different - getting two new Sterns vs HEP on a grail pin - those are still two options you have with the same amount of money, so opportunity cost is relevant regardless of resale value of your pins, experiential/enjoyability value of the HEP process, etc. Those difficult-to-measure variables could sway your opinion one way or another, but it’s still a potential choice with opportunity cost given hypothetically similar resource requirements. Essentially you’re adding points to why this is a decision that is unique to every person and collection, but I’m not sure that those points support the position that if you consider opportunity cost in terms of new Sterns, then you don’t have enough money to HEP (because the assumption here is that HEPing is not about the value and therefore shouldn’t be viewed under a lens of associated costs).
Calfdemon that’s a sick lineup!
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