Not speaking for the great folks at PAPA, but being there myself, I could tell you that most of the regular production guys/gals you see and hear on PAPATV were either playing in the tournament, or TD'ing, or Teching, non-stop. I imagine that once there weren't literally 1000 people playing simultaneously (or even the 200 that qualify for Saturday), they were able to spare some bodies to man the production side of things.
Quoted from Whysnow:Audio was best yesterday during intergalactic finals. Then the big one went back on for wipt and it was insanely loud again.
Seriously, just look into some sort of short wave rf system. It will be better quality for those that want to listen and less disruption for those that don’t.
I am amazed that you continue to work directly against the nonA players with this clear disruption and to do it with full catering only to the A players.
Keep doing the stream as it is great. Fix the audio. If a bunch of cranked out rave kids are able to set up silent raves in abandoned warehouses then you guys should be able to also
Curious if you guys have gone out into other areas and actually experienced it?
You need audio, but the current setup is still a net negative and not really fair to the experience of others that fought hard to be in their finals. Remember, audio space is the same as physical space. ESP for many of the players at this level.
Audio was fine throughout and an improvement on last year so people knew what was going on.
When playing the noise of all the other stuff it just merged in. Noise cancelling headphones on and boom its gone or earplugs which take care of all the other noise polution! On the stage you where aware of the audio but it wasn't distracting.
Quoted from Guidotorpedo:Well..... I don’t think the goal of replay is to be a sale show. Imagine how much of a pain in the dick it would be to get a game out of the convention center into a vehicle, while the show was going on. I will admit, I was disappointed not to see sales representation for JJP or spooky. I’d imagine with cointakers booth, they could just take orders that would be drop shipped from stern, or if you bought a demo, you could remove it on Sunday. Just my guess.
or get them stuff shipped to your hotel like I did:
1: Hundreds of comet LEDS
2: A ton of Mezelmods stuff
3: AFM 3D translite from PPS
4: Speaker light kits
5: 6020 aluminium for my streaming rig
6: a load of candy plungers
7: two Stern toppers
Neil.
Quoted from Whysnow:then maybe a relay system with smaller speakers placed in better ways. Overall lower volume to not distract other players, but placed in better positions (where people are actually watching the stream)
Would be easy to set up, provide much better results, and not be yelling in other players faces.
I get that YOU want to play the audio for A bank into the hall. Good goal, poor execution.
It simply comes down to, "Would you allow a random person to yell stuff directly behind other players while they are playing competitive matches?"
If the answer is no, then you need to hold the organization accountable to the same standards.
This won't help with the problem you are taking about and its not a random person. It's a planned communication.
Quoted from Guidotorpedo:I think what he’s saying is make more pins available for public play and not so much for the tournament. Not sure how you’d pull that one off without killing yourselves and/or compromising the tournament.
There are hundreds of pins to play outside the competition bank, more than most shows!
for me as a participant at the show pinburgh was top, see my post on tilt forums.
on the streaming side, to some extent its an optional extra, those at the competition don't need to see the stream 
but a lot of folks back home struggled to know what was being streamed and well. So a schedule would be a good idea.
But I would suggest getting a list of folks and properly auditioning them and training/scripting them and training and testing them on the games on the stage (which one would suppose are known well before the show?) so they knew all the games (both this year and last year at the WIPT esp this had room for improvement) and also had the results of all the finals going on at their fingertips so they can update on the E D C B also, there is so much news going on at Pinburgh that with a little prep could be used to fill space etc, new players, youngest player, celebrity players (Roger Sharpe and Steve Epstein for example) the groups, the international players, even state by state, have someone with an iPhone grab some pinburgh stories and play them back.
Everyone thinks they would be great on TV but in reality being good on TV is a skill that not everybody is good at and like being a good pinball player requires practise and planning.
I'd be happy to help on this.
Neil.
Since this is the defacto "suggestion box thread" I'll give my two cents as I do every year (with the obvious caveat that it's a great event as is and everybody did a great job)...
The video game side has amazing lighting, lasers, music, etc. It's a real Magfest style party.
Walk a few dozen yards over to the pinball side and it seems like a swap meet. Just flourescent lighting, no music, no lasers, no nothing.
It makes pinball seem lame and staid in comparison, and doesn't do anything to draw younger people over or create a fun environment. After the tournament is over Friday night, it would be cool to see the pinball side match the atmosphere of the arcade side. They did at least dim the lights at one point on Saturday I believe, but it could be so much more immersive.
The tournament itself is great but I'd like to see more production improvements for the Finals. Bring back the confetti...add some pyro..some music...some lasers...some announcements...some excitement. I'd also put a large screen in the back of the convention center showing the stream (arcade side) so that people know a hundred yards away there is a world-class pinball tournament they could come check out. The sound was better this year and I assume will continue to improve, but the lighting should also get a look at. It's too bright in the tournament finals staging area, not only makes it look staid, but washes out the projection screens, which otherwise would present really well. Better (more dramatic) lighting of the stage would also be befitting of a World Championship pinball finals.
All this stuff would elevate the pinball side of the show, in a big way, budget permitting.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:The video game side has amazing lighting, lasers, music, etc. It's a real Magfest style party.
Walk a few dozen yards over to the pinball side and it seems like a swap meet. Just flourescent lighting, no music, no lasers, no nothing.
It makes pinball seem lame and staid in comparison, and doesn't do anything to draw younger people over or create a fun environment.
I noticed this myself. Took a break from pinball and went to play some rhythm games. Came back to pinball, and there was a stark contrast in the atmosphere. I think the fluorescent lights are on so people can see what is happening in the pinball machines, but music or accent lighting would definitely help. They had the disco Iron Maiden machine plugged into the loudspeaker on Saturday night which made it feel like a little bit more of a party.
Quoted from bluebomber:I noticed this myself. Took a break from pinball and went to play some rhythm games. Came back to pinball, and there was a stark contrast in the atmosphere. I think the fluorescent lights are on so people can see what is happening in the pinball machines, but music or accent lighting would definitely help. They had the disco Iron Maiden machine plugged into the loudspeaker on Saturday night which made it feel like a little bit more of a party.
You don't really need ambient lighting, pinball machines are well lit, you'd be able to play in the dark just fine, especially with all the machines on in the area.
The Maiden thing was cute but hearing the same 5 Queen song clips over and over again wasn't really doing much to match the atmosphere of the arcade side.
A few thoughts from a first timer:
Everything that I was told about this event was spot on. Absolutely incredible games, met a ton of interesting people, techs and TD's crushed it, and the event ran unbelievably smoothly for a tournament of 1000 people. Every game played better than any other copy of the same game I have ever played without question. The orgasmic pleasure I got from ripping ANY spinner in the room was next to none.
It was MUCH more exhausting than I expected. I knew it would be rough, but by the end of the day each day I was absolutely beat. I never considered pinball a sport until this weekend.
I'm almost exclusively a NYC area local player. I only recently started playing competitively and have had very limited exposure to any games other than modern Sterns because no one here really routes them. This proved to be a major disadvantage, but it was really fantastic to be exposed to such a variety of other eras of machines in such impeccable condition. Local players told me that playing in Sunshine league would help me at Pinburgh which I found not to be the case. After the Pinburgh banks opened up for freeplay after the tournament I realized that I was being wayyy too cautious with the tilts because of my experience there. The games in Pinburgh played incredibly fair across the board in my experience. Best comparison in tilts, settings, and condition in NYC would be Jackbar.
VIP area seemed kind of sad and not worth the upcharge. A couple of couches and outlets in a little coral. For the plebes there were couches on the stage and plenty of seating all around, so I never found that to be an issue. I would definitely appreciate more places to plug in for the rest of us next year so that we can have some extra juice to share the experience with our friends back home! I would also encourage organizers to place the VIP area behind curtains to give the people who paid the extra $70 a bit more privacy if nothing else.
One of the things I was looking forward to the most was watching the finals with everyone. This turned out to be the biggest letdown of the weekend. I was in a good place in the seating section and couldn't make out ANYTHING being said by the commentary team. It was too bright in the room to really make out what was going on in the projection, glare on the glass made it impossible to tell what was going on in several games, and the video kept cutting out at really inopportune times. I brought a friend of mine who is a local and not a competitive pinball player out to check out the finals with me thinking this would be a great way to expose someone new to the sport and demonstrate why I found this hobby so fun and he just left scratching his head.
I would also appreciate more opportunities to spectate during the event itself. Half of the fun of playing around such incredible players is seeing HOW they play and the opportunities for that were extremely limited. I don't need weekend long commentary, but I would love more playfield cameras projected during rounds so that we can share in more of the experience together.
The contrast between the arcade half of the hall and Pinburgh was really perplexing. Going from the cool, dark arcade half that you entered from into the bright, clinical Pinburgh side really helped to contrast in my mind why younger people are drawn to the arcade instead of pinball. I am not an arcade kid at all and I found myself having so much fun every time I wandered into their section because of the engaging atmosphere they created over there. I would really love to see the organizers take some cues from the production and execution of the other half of the event. I only wish they had a Killer Queen and maybe a few more indie games to play!
All in all, it really was an incredible experience and I can't wait for next year!
Quoted from wmanningiv:I would also encourage organizers to place the VIP area behind curtains to give the people who paid the extra $70 a bit more privacy if nothing else.
As a person that paid that $70 extra for a VIP ticket, I found it to be totally worth it. And if offered again next year, I will happily pay it again if I can get one.
Quoted from DaveH:As a person that paid that $70 extra for a VIP ticket, I found it to be totally worth it. And if offered again next year, I will happily pay it again if I can get one.
I feel like people are paying the $70 vig to get their ticket 30 minutes earlier and go back to sleep. The lounge isn't really necessary.
They should just auction off 100 tickets early on and rake in the cash, and dispense with the VIP area (or keep it, whatever). They could raise a huge amount of money doing this, and since they have had their first taste of the joys of self-scalping, I don't see why they wouldn't consider it.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:The lounge isn't really necessary.
There were times I would have traded my left “Insert Body Part Here” for one of those couches.
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:There were times I would have traded my left “Insert Body Part Here” for one of those couches.
I never had any trouble finding a place to sit between rounds. Lots of tables and chairs.
It was my first Pinburgh and I highly recommend it to everyone -- casual players through the most competitive. The way Papa has set this up, the event feels like it's more about celebrating Pinball and its history than competition per se. I was surprised by this.
First off, hats off to the Papa organization. The results were always interpreted in time -- as were the next round's assignments. There wasn't *any* extra waiting around!
As others have said, the techs were mind-blowingly AMAZING! They should wear capes...they were like superheroes darting back and forth with machines coming and going on lift carts at all hours.
Not all the machines are A+ museum pieces in appearance...but all the machines in the tournament area are set up to be crack ass machines. They all shoot A+ for whatever title they are. Outlane rubbers are usually removed; shots that are historically too easy (for example, the add group member in GnR) are made more difficult by the addition of rubbers; and playfields are usually set up to be fast and drain generously 
Despite these impediments, they could only be described as a joy to play.
The vast banks of tournament machines are mainly switched over to "free play" as of 10:30 pm at the end of the second night of tournament play. A minority of the tournament machines are cordoned off for the Playoffs (and are off limits)...but it's open season for the rest. Fantastic!
It's quite a rush to see all of our "pinball celebrities" over and over again throughout the tournament. I didn't approach any of them (although I got an opportunity to play against a top level player who was in my group), but it was certainly fun and somehow reassuring to see all of them there, participating in pinball...just as I was.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:I never had any trouble finding a place to sit between rounds. Lots of tables and chairs.
I never said I had an issue finding a place to sit. They did an absolute wonderful job with the seating. I was surprised at how much padding was on the seat of the folding chairs.
What I said was that I would have gladly paid extra for access to the couches. At least for me, the couches were more comfortable.
Why are you always on the other side of the fence? It doesn’t matter what anyone says, you’re always in disagreement....
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Bring back the confetti...
Confetti was on the plan this year until the CC told us it would be $100/hr to clean it up. Bye, confetti!
The production of the event increases every year. Budget is our biggest restriction, but I guarantee you will see a lot of what you are talking about in the next few years.
The other side of the hall and what it attracts to the show will start attracting bigger things to the Pinburgh side. Stay tuned!
Quoted from CrazyLevi:their first taste of the joys of self-scalping, I don't see why they wouldn't consider it.
I'm not sure what this means, can you elaborate?
Quoted from wmanningiv:The orgasmic pleasure I got from ripping ANY spinner in the room was next to none.
Those were the juiciest spinners I've ever come across.
What's the secret sauce?
Quoted from RatShack:What's the secret sauce?
Dunno what they use, but here’s mine:
AF8339A4-B123-42A7-87A8-57414FD4EB29.png
...after cleaning the spinner arms with a scotchbrite pad and making sure they’re perfectly straight & balanced.
Quoted from ninjadoug:I'm not sure what this means, can you elaborate?
I think he’s suggesting to auction off pinburgh tickets.
Quoted from ninjadoug:I'm not sure what this means, can you elaborate?
self scalping = upselling your own tickets for a higher price.
More and more events and bands are doing this to generate more $ but try to control perception that they are not scalping to the fans.
Stuff like "platinum seating" that goes on sale to a fan club or VIPs. you get premier seat (or in this case some couches and 2 pins in a roped off area?) but the reality is the real perk is the option to buy earlier than others and secure the ticket.
The event sells for more money to help out the event.
Everyone and their brother tries for the VIP because it is one more chance to secure a high demand and limited event.
You could honestly sell 300+ VIP tickets and upcharge. Great way to raise more revenue to do more stuff.
I honestly think you could charge 2x as much for the pinburgh ticket so long as the extra goes to improvements and NOT just more prize money for KME. (I mean the event is great, but I would rather see you guys just leave the already huge prize funds where they are and spend any extra on things to make the experience even better for the masses)
It was my first Pinburgh as well and we had a blast. We got to check out some local pinball joints like Pinball Perfection and Pinball, PA and they were both awesome as well as our stop at Rock Fantasy on the drive home.
As for the show itself; I will echo what others have said. There needs to be better updates on when the various events are happening and when the stream will be on the air. I went to the PAPA web site and the ReplayFX site before finding a link on the Pinside forums to the broadcast. I know overhead announcements are tough in the convention center but there has to be someway to communicate when the main stage is active; not sure if using the ReplayFX app will allow notifications, if optional text blasts are a way to go or if just posting on Twitter when various finals or important rounds are starting would be enough. I was not competing in the main tournament but would have liked to know when to go watch the main stage action for the various finals.
I did notice the stage next to the Toon computer game (I believe for music performances) was empty the entire day with just a plain ReplayFX logo on the huge screen. Perhaps that can show the broadcast feed during the tournaments when it is not being used?
It was a fun show and maybe next year i will try to actually get a spot to compete. Loved meeting and talking with pinballers from around the globe and the Pinsiders I ran in to were all very nice. Pittsburgh was a great city to walk around in and was a huge difference from New England!
I must be the only person who subscribes to papaTV on streaming so I get notifications when they stream...
I heard a few complain about the tilt on Hot Tip over on FB. Do the techs replace the 40+ year old cap across that switch with new?
An old cap across the tilt mech could cause random tilts. Every old school SS game should have it's tilt cap replaced with new to alleviate this known issue.
Eric Stone and Ray Davidson got hosed big time because of this. People witnessed what happened to them was no fault of these players.
The judge who didn't see it happen, just called it a regular tilt instead of a malfunction and hosed these 2 players at the very least when it counted most in qualifying and game selection for the victims of this game malfunction.
Quoted from ninjadoug:I'm not sure what this means, can you elaborate?
I think instead of the VIP thing as done this year (marking up tickets $70), an all-out auction would accomplish two things:
1) Raise a shitload more money for Replay
2) allow a better opportunity for deep-pocketed people to obtain a "VIP" (early/guaranteed entry) ticket. The VIP scramble was just as /more brutal than the regular onsale this year, and it wasn't because people were clamoring for the VIP lounge. They simply wanted tickets as early and securely as possible.
Since the "VIP overcharge" ticket barrier was finally breached this year - with pretty much no negative feedback - I think it would be accepted and even welcomed by ticket buyers this year. If you think it's a "bad look," a percentage could go to Project Pinball or pretty much any charity.
Just something to think about. VIP raised about an additional $3000 for replay this year. I'd bet you'd clear well over twice that auctioning off (or simply self-scalping at twice the price) the tickets. I've bought a lot of concert tickets. This stuff works.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:I think instead of the VIP thing as done this year (marking up tickets $70), an all-out auction would accomplish two things:
1) Raise a shitload more money for Replay
2) allow a better opportunity for deep-pocketed people to obtain a "VIP" (early/guaranteed entry) ticket. The VIP scramble was just as /more brutal than the regular onsale this year, and it wasn't because people were clamoring for the VIP lounge. They simply wanted tickets as early and securely as possible.
Since the "VIP overcharge" ticket barrier was finally breached this year - with pretty much no negative feedback - I think it would be accepted and even welcomed by ticket buyers this year. If you think it's a "bad look," a percentage could go to Project Pinball or pretty much any charity.
Just something to think about. VIP raised about an additional $3000 for replay this year. I'd bet you'd clear well over twice that auctioning off (or simply self-scalping at twice the price) the tickets. I've bought a lot of concert tickets. This stuff works.
Auction would be interesting.
Giving a % to charity or better yet, just saying it will go towards things like: paying more techs, hiring more people for streaming, improved audio, etc...
would do the trick.
I would happily pay more for the opportunity to grab an early ticket if I knew the proceeds were going to continue to grow and improve the experience.
Levi> what do you think they could raise the regular pinburgh ticket price to and still be fine?
Replayfx - $100
Pinburgh - $130
Hotel - $800
Gas - $100 (some have flights that are a lot more)
Food - $100
Parking - $40
I would like to go to a couple big pinball events a year but this is expensive. And your talking about raising the prices even more. Your going to start pricing people out of these shows. I'm sure it will still sell out if you raise the prices because there are people with deep pockets that don't have to think twice about paying this amount and still go to a few shows a year. But your going to start pricing some people out. It's not just the price of the event. Travel and lodging is very expensive.
Quick question/observation on the start of new rounds. Was this being announced over the speakers? Each time a new round “officially” started did they announce it? I don’t recall hearing anything but instead everyone at the tables were constantly refreshing their phones waiting for the next round to be published.
Quoted from Whysnow:Auction would be interesting.
Giving a % to charity or better yet, just saying it will go towards things like: paying more techs, hiring more people for streaming, improved audio, etc...
would do the trick.
I would happily pay more for the opportunity to grab an early ticket if I knew the proceeds were going to continue to grow and improve the experience.
Levi> what do you think they could raise the regular pinburgh ticket price to and still be fine?
It's hard to say. "splitting up" the tickets as they do (replay ticket/pinburgh ticket) does a little to distract from the sticker shock. But you'd have to raise the Pinburgh ticket while not raising the replay ticket much as you don't want to scare away showgoers.
So no idea really. I bet you could get away with an extra $20-30 without pissing off too many people.
But again, letting would-be VIPs spend as much money as they want while only raising the "regular" ticket a few bucks might work better. I know for a fact there's plenty of people who would happily pay $300 for their pinburgh 2020 ticket tomorrow if given the chance.
What's your take?
Quoted from CrazyLevi:I bet you could get away with an extra $20-30 without pissing off too many people.
I bet that would piss off some people.
I'm alright financially, better so than many I would guess, but anymore is approaching my teetering point strictly out of principle; now that I've made my pilgrimage to the holy mecca, I may skip out next year and allocate the small fortune I dropped last week to purchasing another B/C list machine.
Admittedly, this whole hobby is approaching insanity, and I personally overheard many talking about how they won't be able to pay off their credit card bills when they get home...but there they were in Pittsburgh.
If you're cool with me sending my butler to pick up that extra $20-30 from you to cover me next year, I'll let you fly down in my private helicopter next year 
Nice seeing you as always.
Quoted from DRDAVE:I heard a few complain about the tilt on Hot Tip over on FB. Do the techs replace the 40+ year old cap across that switch with new?
Bally used those caps over switches to draw out switch registering... but Williams (Hot Tip) did not.
Quoted from Grandnational007:I bet that would piss off some people.
I'm alright financially, better so than many I would guess, but anymore is approaching my teetering point strictly out of principle; now that I've made my pilgrimage to the holy mecca, I may skip out next year and allocate the small fortune I dropped last week to purchasing another B/C list machine.
Admittedly, this whole hobby is approaching insanity, and I personally overheard many talking about how they won't be able to pay off their credit card bills when they get home...but there they were in Pittsburgh.
If you're cool with me sending my butler to pick up that extra $20-30 from you to cover me next year, I'll let you fly down in my private helicopter next year Nice seeing you as always.
I agree. We should be encouraging people to get into pinball. Raising prices just because you can does not encourage people. If they need to raise prices to stay profitable that is one thing. But raising them just because you can is another. Pinball as a hobby is expensive enough. We don't need to make it worse just because we can.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:It's hard to say. "splitting up" the tickets as they do (replay ticket/pinburgh ticket) does a little to distract from the sticker shock. But you'd have to raise the Pinburgh ticket while not raising the replay ticket much as you don't want to scare away showgoers.
So no idea really. I bet you could get away with an extra $20-30 without pissing off too many people.
But again, letting would-be VIPs spend as much money as they want while only raising the "regular" ticket a few bucks might work better. I know for a fact there's plenty of people who would happily pay $300 for their pinburgh 2020 ticket tomorrow if given the chance.
What's your take?
I agree. Another $30 is nothing in the grand scheme. I am sure there would be a little blow back, but lets be honest... if it decrease demand to rights size to the supply then I think that is a win. When you event sells out instantly and has a huge waitlist, then upping the fee seems to fit.
I add this all with the caveat that those extra funds go towards more improvements. If those funds go to more prizes for the top people, then I see the blow back as justified. I think the majority are all for more $ to help the organization do more and improve the experience for all.
I also agree on the VIP tickets. I gotta be honest. I would happily pay $300 for the VIP experience and ability to secure my tickets today. Granted this is a don't miss event for myself and wife plus her crappy work stuff requires lots of planning in advance so it is worth it for us to not have to worry.
My reality is that ANY vacation is going to cost us 1k in travel and hotel. Changing a pinburgh ticket form $100 per to $130 is a small % of the cost of this trip.
I spent more on the 4 beers we had in the venue after Friday was done.
I would much rather have spent that helping the show directly and just snuck in a flask (shhhh.... dont tell anyone)
Quoted from valgalder:The security didn't check anything. I brought a backpack full of beer every day of the event. No issues.
And just like that, metal detectors, x-rays, bag-checks, pat-downs, and lllllllllooooooonnnnnnnnnngggggggggg lines waiting to get into the venue became a thing at Replay/Pinburgh.
Discrepancy, bruh, discrepancy.
Quoted from Grandnational007:And just like that, metal detectors, x-rays, bag-checks, pat-downs, and lllllllllooooooonnnnnnnnnngggggggggg lines waiting to get into the venue became a thing at Replay/Pinburgh.
Discrepancy, bruh, discrepancy.
Discretion maybe bruh?
I agree. Got a good thing going at Replay, I'd hate if I couldn't smuggle in some beef jerky.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:a percentage could go to Project Pinball or pretty much any charity.
Got ya. Replay Foundation is a 501.3c charity, so keeping us going would be great!
Quoted from kguenther6:We should be encouraging people to get into pinball.
Agreed, but in this particular case I don't think the problem is lack of interest. Running more tourneys and dirt cheap tourneys, sure. Pinburgh is never going to be very newbie-friendly, because it already costs $230 and sells out in seconds. And that's okay! ...for the biggest tourney in the world, and a major.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Discretion maybe bruh?
I agree. Got a good thing going at Replay, I'd hate if I couldn't smuggle in some beef jerky.
Yup, lol.
Had to email out a ton of discrepancy reports at work this morning and it must have just been on my mind.
"When being a smartass goes wrong"
Quoted from epthegeek:July 9-12, 2020.
SAME WEEKEND AS SFGE....... UGHH. I like the Atlanta show but noticed less games this year, and this will kill it next year,
Quoted from yancy:Agreed, but in this particular case I don't think the problem is lack of interest. Running more tourneys and dirt cheap tourneys, sure. Pinburgh is never going to be very newbie-friendly, because it already costs $230 and sells out in seconds. And that's okay! ...for the biggest tourney in the world, and a major.
From the front page of papa.org:
The goal of the Professional & Amateur Pinball Association is to create and promote the world’s greatest pinball tournaments, encourage friendly competition, and spread enthusiasm for pinball among casual gamers. Toward that end, we have built Pinburgh
Are you saying their mission has changed and Pinburgh is no longer to "spread enthusiasm for pinball among casual gamers"? If that is no longer the case, fine. Charge $1000 a ticket. But if you want to keep the mission then the prices should be kept low.
Quoted from kguenther6:From the front page of papa.org:
The goal of the Professional & Amateur Pinball Association is to create and promote the world’s greatest pinball tournaments, encourage friendly competition, and spread enthusiasm for pinball among casual gamers. Toward that end, we have built Pinburgh
Are you saying their mission has changed and Pinburgh is no longer to "spread enthusiasm for pinball among casual gamers"? If that is no longer the case, fine. Charge $1000 a ticket. But if you want to keep the mission then the prices should be kept low.
How do you feel about "keep most low, sell some high?"
Do you consider the $230 it cost in 2019 to be "low?"
Quoted from kguenther6:Are you saying their mission has changed and Pinburgh is no longer to "spread enthusiasm for pinball among casual gamers"?
I'd say you're taking that mission statement a bit too literally. Pinburgh can spread enthusiasm without every casual Jane & John Doe being able to stumble into it. The financial and ticket scarcity barrier is already so high that some of the best players in the world can't get in. Raising the price a bit more isn't the straw that breaks the camel's back. The camel is dead.
Quoted from yancy:I'd say you're taking that mission statement a bit too literally. Pinburgh can spread enthusiasm without every casual Jane & John Doe being able to stumble into it. The financial and ticket scarcity barrier is already so high that some of the best players in the world already can't get in. Raising the price a bit more isn't the straw that breaks the camel's back. The camel is dead.
Yes, some good players are not able to get tickets, but the best always seem to get them. Not sure how it works, but I just have a hard time picturing guys like Keith sitting at the desk, refreshing like many and find out that he is not in. Although its not said, Im sure that some of the top players in the world have a back door to tickets before they are released to common folk. Can you picture Trent sponsoring the already planned VIP room, and not get a ticket to the tourney?
Dont take the previous statement as negativity, I believe that the top "X" amount of players should have this privilege. In fact, I think that those that qualify for finals should be able to be guaranteed entry
Quoted from yancy:Raising the price a bit more isn't the straw that breaks the camel's back.
Not everyone is talking about raising it a little. Some are talking raising it a lot.
Quoted from Whysnow:I honestly think you could charge 2x as much for the pinburgh ticket
Quoted from CrazyLevi:I know for a fact there's plenty of people who would happily pay $300 for their pinburgh 2020 ticket
Quoted from CrazyLevi:an all-out auction
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Quoted from CrazyLevi:How do you feel about "keep most low, sell some high?"
Do you consider the $230 it cost in 2019 to be "low?"
I'm fine with some being high. I just thought one of the great things about Pinburgh was it was a tournament affordable to most and get to play against a lot of great players. If another $20/$30 dollars per ticket is needed to keep this a great event then fine. But if we are raising prices just to keep people out so that richer people can be sure to get a ticket or auctioning the tickets off I think that will no longer make it the great event it currently is.
Quoted from kguenther6:Not everyone is talking about raising it a little. Some are talking raising it a lot.
I'm fine with some being high. I just thought one of the great things about Pinburgh was it was a tournament affordable to most and get to play against a lot of great players. If another $20/$30 dollars per ticket is needed to keep this a great event then fine. But if we are raising prices just to keep people out so that richer people can be sure to get a ticket or auctioning the tickets off I think that will no longer make it the great event it currently is.
Raising the ticket prices / selling some at a premium isn't to "keep people out," it's to help pay the bills. None of us are privy to the financials but it's incredibly expensive to put on an event like this, and of course you have people like me clamoring for more money to be spent on production. I personally think that spending more on the production and adding significant pizazz to the pinball side of the event would do more to "draw people to pinball" than keeping prices low.
Others want to see higher prize pools for all divisions. Others want some of the jankier EMs replaced with good ones, or more games added so the number of participants can rise even higher.
All of this stuff takes money, so they'd be wise to consider all options.
Quoted from kguenther6:Replayfx - $100
Pinburgh - $130
Hotel - $800
Gas - $100 (some have flights that are a lot more)
Food - $100
Parking - $40
I would like to go to a couple big pinball events a year but this is expensive. And your talking about raising the prices even more. Your going to start pricing people out of these shows. I'm sure it will still sell out if you raise the prices because there are people with deep pockets that don't have to think twice about paying this amount and still go to a few shows a year. But your going to start pricing some people out. It's not just the price of the event. Travel and lodging is very expensive.
Flight: £2000 (+wife another 2k)
Parking: £140
Nice person to watch my cat for a week: £120
Hotel for a week (need to adjust to the timezone): £1000
Food: £400 (includes wife).
Pinburgh: £100
Hmm. Pinburgh ticket is the cheapest part of this for me and I'd happily pay more (and did when there was an eBay auction last year!)
Neil.
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