(Topic ID: 234518)

*** OFFICIAL ReplayFX/Pinburgh 2019 Thread ***


By VectorGamer

10 months ago



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    There are 1083 posts in this topic. You are on page 17 of 22.
    #801 3 months ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    Yeah you’re right. Hard to find a system that screws no one. That’s for sure.

    I agree there is always going to be someone unhappy no matter what system is used. This was my 5th Pinburgh and I will keep coming back. Still the best tournament out there. But disappointing to play better than other people see them advance and when I don't. I will just have to play better next year

    #802 3 months ago
    Quoted from thirdedition:

    I thought the whole point of restrictions was to make it fair. I don't see how people not having good enough records for A, B, C, or D still getting in and bumping other people down is fair. The people that got bumped lose out on a ton of IFPA points.
    My thought is if you are restricted and don't make it into your restricted division your tournament is over. I imagine some wonn't like that but as of right now it sure feels to me like the system is setup to keep the top players up in the top division to keep more of the IFPA points.
    I would love to have a discussion as to why it is done the current way. I know sandbagging is a thing, but if you don't make it into the division you are restricted to and are done for the weekend sandbagging goes away.

    I'm still pretty salty I was trying to make the cutoff for B and had to qualify against somebody restricted to A. No one else in the group had a division restriction.

    Make those A guys qualify against each other.

    #803 3 months ago
    Quoted from kguenther6:

    I understand tie breakers might bump me out. But I had a better record than 19 other players that were put in A due to restrictions. So it wasn't just tie breakers that bumped me out as I had a better record than 19 other people that got put into A and not the same record and lost by tie breaker.

    I understand.

    Are you against division restrictions on principle, or because they affected you this year?

    If you think Pinburgh would be better with no division restrictions, would you eliminate players who don't play well enough to make the cut line at the end of day 1?

    Would you allow any player to play in any division? What would you say to players who complained that the B (or C or D) division was dominated by players playing below their appropriate skill division? Because that would 100% happen every year.

    #804 3 months ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    Seriously, just look into some sort of short wave rf system. It will be better quality for those that want to listen and less disruption for those that don’t.

    Imagine going to a pro sports event with no announcer... that's what you keep missing they are trying to add. The noise BEING THE DRAW to keep attention and updates readily available.. to make it better to watch.

    And your short wave RF thing is a problem because most phones in the US don't have their FM chips enabled, if they even have them. For instance, no apple phones have it enabled here.

    The answer is better a/v and acoustic planning... which all costs $$

    #805 3 months ago

    I only have one suggestion to make on the streaming end of things. I didn't watch it while I was there, because I was doing other things, but I did watch it at home. I watched the YouTube upload in my theater. The issue I had was towards the end when someone make a crazy save and the announcers went wild. It all but blew out my ears.

    I guess the suggestion would be some type of normalization to keep that from being such a huge dynamic range.

    But then again, I'm assuming most people don't watch the stream at 135" in a theater that has 9 speakers.

    #806 3 months ago
    Quoted from stevevt:

    I understand.
    Are you against division restrictions on principle, or because they affected you this year?
    If you think Pinburgh would be better with no division restrictions, would you eliminate players who don't play well enough to make the cut line at the end of day 1?
    Would you allow any player to play in any division? What would you say to players who complained that the B (or C or D) division was dominated by players playing below their appropriate skill division? Because that would 100% happen every year.

    I'm not sure what the answer is. If you don't put in restrictions then you get sandbagging of players to get into the money. Maybe the best answer is if you are restricted and don't get into your division then you are out the first day. And that would include me next year since I made B finals I will be restricted to B or higher. But then I don't know how IFPA points would be done for those out the first day. There is no easy answer and maybe the restrictions is the best way. There are players that would rather sandbag and get money and other like me that would rather get the chance to play against the best in the world and see how high they can get in the tournament. No easy answer to fix the sandbagging and still put the other players though that played good.

    #807 3 months ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    Imagine going to a pro sports event with no announcer...

    Its called the NHL, and it's great.

    #808 3 months ago
    Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

    I guess the suggestion would be some type of normalization to keep that from being such a huge dynamic range.

    sounds like you need a compressor

    Edit: watching some clips... THEY need a compressor on their audio mix

    #809 3 months ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Its called the NHL, and it's great.

    They have a PA and "annoying" music all the time as well...

    #810 3 months ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    They have a PA and "annoying" music all the time as well...

    Ah gotta have the organ, true.

    #811 3 months ago
    Quoted from kguenther6:

    I'm not sure what the answer is. If you don't put in restrictions then you get sandbagging of players to get into the money. Maybe the best answer is if you are restricted and don't get into your division then you are out the first day. And that would include me next year since I made B finals I will be restricted to B or higher. But then I don't know how IFPA points would be done for those out the first day. There is no easy answer and maybe the restrictions is the best way. There are players that would rather sandbag and get money and other like me that would rather get the chance to play against the best in the world and see how high they can get in the tournament. No easy answer to fix the sandbagging and still put the other players though that played good.

    I didn't even mention my results from this year.

    I was B restricted and finished a couple points out of B. So I should have been in C, but ended up near the bottom of B. I bumped someone into the C division who might feel the same way you do. Apologies to this person.

    -1
    #812 3 months ago
    Quoted from stevevt:

    You're probably describing the fairist version of the tournament. But I don't see any way it would be as popular or successful as the version we have now.
    In your scenario, I would actually consider either not attending Pinburgh or limiting the number of events I play in to keep from coming into Pinburgh with too high a seed.
    With the current system, we get a handful -- or even a whole lot -- of people who are unhappy being bumped down. But it still sells out in 5 seconds with a bunch of people on the waitlist.

    I'm fairly certain it would still sell out in less than 5 seconds. As or right now unless changes are made I won't be coming back I know I'm a small fish in a big pond but if no one says anything nothing will change.

    I think any number of people getting bumped sucks and I don't think it is good or fair for pinball. There are people out there not playing in tournaments because of how goofy the system can be. Pinburgh to me just put a big old exclamation point on that. If people are worried about not getting to play for two days, have two days of qualifiers that go directly into finals. If you don't make it into your restricted final you end up wherever you are supposed to be on the list. No need to worry about sandbagging and I would hope less hard feelings.

    #813 3 months ago
    Quoted from ninjadoug:

    We started this last year and improved the audio this year. There is still more work to be done, but we've received so much positive feedback on this change I don't think we will abandon this concept.
    We thought about moving the B,C,D, and E finalists out towards the front of the Pinburgh area, farther away from the main stage, but I think the risk of a non-tournament guest wandering into the area out front and disrupting the event is rather high.

    Off center it was harder to make out the audio clearly, but off center is the best "game view" because of the projectors. I don't know if some angled speakers are in order, or some extra front facing speakers at the stage edges. It wasn't impossible to understand from the edge seats, just not great. I think the in-house 'color' commentary is much more of a plus than a minus.

    One small step you could take is moving the B/C/D/E finals to the outside end of the row. It's not a huge difference, but it would put a bit of buffer space between the central sound/crowd and the bank for finals.

    Quoted from kermit24:

    Distractions are part of playing competitive pinball in public / show settings.

    Tell that to the guy who asked me to not write down our scores while standing at the game we just finished playing because I was in his field of vision.

    #814 3 months ago
    Quoted from stevevt:

    I didn't even mention my results from this year.
    I was B restricted and finished a couple points out of B. So I should have been in C, but ended up near the bottom of B. I bumped someone into the C division who might feel the same way you do. Apologies to this person.

    And this might be me next year bumping someone out of B due to restrictions. I would feel bad about that. But even though I was bumped out of A I still think it is the best tournament out there. And if someone can come up with a fair solution to this it would make it even better. I won't let this keep me from coming back next year. I still had a great time and will keep coming back assuming I can get a ticket

    #815 3 months ago

    i clipped this from the WIPT finals

    1.3k views lol

    https://clips.twitch.tv/PlausibleCogentPoxThunBeast

    #816 3 months ago
    Quoted from thirdedition:

    If people are worried about not getting to play for two days, have two days of qualifiers that go directly into finals. If you don't make it into your restricted final you end up wherever you are supposed to be on the list

    How are Divisions made in this scenario? Is it the top 200 players overall divided into groups of 40? Is it finishers 1-40, 200-240, 400-440, etc?

    I don't really see the downside of being bumped down a division due to tiebreakers or restricted players. The WPPR difference (2018) between last place in A, and first place in B was .02, the difference between middle of A and bottom of A was 1.5. These aren't very significant differences. If you were middle of A versus middle of B it's a difference of less than 3 points, which is only a ~40 rank difference if you're sitting at rank 1000. The upside is you have a MUCH better chance of getting to play on Saturday in B than in A. As in all things pinball, it just comes down to: play better. If you got one more point on Thursday you don't have to worry about being bumped from your "rightful" division.

    #817 3 months ago
    Quoted from misterschu:

    How are Divisions made in this scenario? Is it the top 200 players overall divided into groups of 40? Is it finishers 1-40, 200-240, 400-440, etc?
    I don't really see the downside of being bumped down a division due to tiebreakers or restricted players. The WPPR difference (2018) between last place in A, and first place in B was .02, the difference between middle of A and bottom of A was 1.5. These aren't very significant differences. If you were middle of A versus middle of B it's a difference of less than 3 points, which is only a ~40 rank difference if you're sitting at rank 1000. The upside is you have a MUCH better chance of getting to play on Saturday in B than in A. As in all things pinball, it just comes down to: play better. If you got one more point on Thursday you don't have to worry about being bumped from your "rightful" division.

    Then the people who didn't make it into the correct divisions should "play better".

    #818 3 months ago
    Quoted from stevevt:

    I didn't even mention my results from this year.
    I was B restricted and finished a couple points out of B. So I should have been in C, but ended up near the bottom of B. I bumped someone into the C division who might feel the same way you do. Apologies to this person.

    No need to apologize. We all entered the tournament under the same rules. I wanted the circuit points to pop up into the top 25 and ended up playing so poorly on Day 1 that I was a C bump. My qualifying spot is my fault and my fault only regardless of any bumps or tie-breakers. I ended up having a great time just spending Day 2 and finals day shooting the breeze and having a few beers while playing and learning new pins.

    That being said, I don't have an answer for restrictions, other than the way the system is, it's most likely the best way for it to run currently. There are good players all around, but realistically there is a noticeable gap in skill level that would be taken advantage of.

    -2
    #819 3 months ago

    Wait until the day one of the top 10 A players have some bad games and get dumped into B. You'll see a rule change. Likely on the spot.

    #820 3 months ago
    Quoted from thirdedition:

    Then the people who didn't make it into the correct divisions should "play better".

    Same could be said about those that got "bumped" by a restricted player.
    When you look at it, getting bumped into B by a restricted player means you averaged 7-5 during each round, I wouldn't call that "great" playing. I would call it just above average. I've qualified the bottom of A twice now and by no means did I play great on day 1. I would say I played ok and had a few good breaks go my way.

    #821 3 months ago
    Quoted from thirdedition:

    Then the people who didn't make it into the correct divisions should "play better".

    Right, that would be the correct usage, but that's not the current rules.

    Quoted from MrBally:

    Wait until the day one of the top 10 A players have some bad games and get dumped into B. You'll see a rule change. Likely on the spot.

    The top 10 A players are restricted to A, by merit of being top 100 in WPPR ranking.

    #822 3 months ago
    Quoted from MrBally:

    Wait until the day one of the top 10 A players have some bad games and get dumped into B. You'll see a rule change. Likely on the spot.

    That would have happened this year with Cayle George and Steve Bowden if there wasn't division restrictions.

    #823 3 months ago

    How about letting restricted players play in the division they actually qualified for, but if you don’t qualify for your restricted division, then no prize money for you.

    I have not fully thought this through so feel free to pick it apart, but I believe this would eliminate any sandbagging and still be fair.

    #824 3 months ago

    Lyman Sheets was seeded in my first group on Friday in "B". I was kind of a little surprised to see that, but upon arrival in the morning, Lyman had been removed and the group reduced to 3 players.

    I was genuinely saddened that he was, I'm assuming, bumped to "A", as I've played him before, and he's a genuinely really nice guy, and have always had pleasant conversations with him. I've enjoyed watching him play, as I can always learn something.

    That said, I played consistently both days, and came into the final round qualified for finals; it was mine to lose, and sure enough, that's what I did . I played the worst round of my entire run and bunked out. I ended up being a few spots out of finals. Overall, I'm pleased that I finished significantly higher than my initial tournament seeding out of the gate. Hope to go again next year.

    Thanks again to all the people that volunteer to put the best and smoothest running show on Earth year after year.

    #825 3 months ago
    Quoted from Grandnational007:

    I was genuinely saddened that he was, I'm assuming, bumped to "A", as I've played him before, and he's a genuinely really nice guy, and have always had pleasant conversations with him.

    Any assignments based on division restrictions would have been addressed on Friday evening after Round 5. If an individual had an A-Restriction, then they would not have been assigned a B-Division group in Round 6 and then removed from that group. They would have been forced into an A-Division group for Round 6.

    Looking specifically at Lyman, he was restricted to A/B/C, but the website notes that he was marked absent from the tournament and it appears he did not play at all on Day 2. -> https://pinburgh.com/2019/live/players.html

    pasted_image (resized).png

    #826 3 months ago
    Quoted from Grandnational007:

    I was genuinely saddened that he was, I'm assuming, bumped to "A",

    If he had been bumped to A he would not have been assigned to your group. All bumping (due to restrictions and tie-breaks was done before groups were made)

    #827 3 months ago

    Oh man, well I hope he's all right.

    #828 3 months ago
    Quoted from Grandnational007:

    Oh man, well I hope he's all right.

    He’s ok. He withdrew because he didn’t want to play in B.

    #829 3 months ago

    That's actually a very standup gesture by him imo.

    #830 3 months ago

    He's fine. He chose not to play in B.

    He's a world champion and in conversation for top 5 most accomplished player of all time. Don't blame him.

    #831 3 months ago

    Well, he's only won that little PAPA tournament thing a few times...

    I hope I didn't open up a can of worms here, jeez. You can't win 'em all. Unless you're KME, in which case, you possibly might.

    #832 3 months ago

    Anyone else experiencing the Monday-Post-Pinburgh-Depression syndrome that I’m having today?

    #833 3 months ago
    Quoted from Pinzap:

    Anyone else experiencing the Monday-Post-Pinburgh-Depression syndrome that I’m having today?

    I’m like a freaking zombie today.

    #834 3 months ago
    Quoted from epthegeek:

    Tell that to the guy who asked me to not write down our scores while standing at the game we just finished playing because I was in his field of vision.

    I would, if you would advise a TD of the situation.

    #835 3 months ago
    Quoted from MrBally:

    Wait until the day one of the top 10 A players have some bad games and get dumped into B. You'll see a rule change. Likely on the spot.

    This wouldn't happen currently BECAUSE of our division restrictions.

    Also, I would never change a rule 'on the spot'.

    16
    #836 3 months ago

    To everyone who asked me about the 3D printed glass corner protectors that all of us techs had at Pinburgh. Here’s the file to print your own: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3789489

    I’ve been using the same set for almost a year and they are still as grippy as the day I got them.

    DE12DF17-1C99-4C68-9EB8-C9906DEE1969 (resized).jpeg
    #837 3 months ago
    Quoted from NIQ:

    To everyone who asked me about the 3D printed glass corner protectors that all of us techs had at Pinburgh. Here’s the file to print your own: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3789489
    I’ve been using the same set for almost a year and they are still as grippy as the day I got them.[quoted image]

    I didn’t realize those printed. I was going to look around for a set because they looked awesome.

    #838 3 months ago

    On the subject of restrictions and format, I love this format. The restrictions are required, because I don’t want to see a top 20 player dominate C.

    Quoted from djreddog:

    He’s ok. He withdrew because he didn’t want to play in B.

    Lyman is a standup guy. He was walking around playing EMs yesterday and it was one of those situations where I wanted to say how much I love his work, but he seemed to be happily playing old games, so I just left him alone to play pinball.

    And finally, tech staff, those EMs (and everything) played great. Thanks a bunch for doing all that work.

    #839 3 months ago
    Quoted from DaveH:

    He was walking around playing EMs yesterday and it was one of those situations where I wanted to say how much I love his work, but he seemed to be happily playing old games, so I just left him alone to play pinball.

    I was going to do the same thing, but changed my mind.

    I already felt bad for stopping Bowen and telling him how much I appreciate everything I’ve learned by watching his videos.

    #840 3 months ago
    Quoted from ninjadoug:

    I would, if you would advise a TD of the situation.

    I thought it was a completely ridiculous ask, but not enough to go get a TD about. I mean, by chasing me away, he just opened the gate for the people playing after us to come up and be much more active in the exact same spot immediately -- so really it ended up 'worse' for him, if things in his periphery are really that terrible.

    #841 3 months ago
    Quoted from epthegeek:

    I thought it was a completely ridiculous ask, but not enough to go get a TD about. I mean, by chasing me away, he just opened the gate for the people playing after us to come up and be much more active in the exact same spot immediately -- so really it ended up 'worse' for him, if things in his periphery are really that terrible.

    If your group is crowding around a game while a competition game is being played on the machine right next to you, you are indeed in the wrong. That can be terribly distracting and wouldn't be acceptable at any tournament, much less a World Championship. It's happened to me many times over 5 pinburgs and it always sucks. It's not just the "peripheral vision" its having someone's back 2 inches away from your hand while you are flipping.

    I politely ask the offending group to move and they always do. Shouldn't be a big deal, many players at Pinburgh are new to tournament pinball and don't realize they shouldn't crowd a player who is playing a tournament game, and they get it when you point it out. Nothing remotely "ridiculous" about that ask.

    There are plenty of places to write scores down rather than on the glass of a machine directly next to one being used by fellow competitors. A table...a machine NOT next to one being played on; there are plenty of both at replay FX.

    #842 3 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    If your group is crowding around a game while a competition game is being played on the machine right next to you, you are indeed in the wrong.

    This was me, by myself. Standing directly in front of the game. Having taken a picture of the backglass, I was updating our score sheet. Everybody else in the group was well back in the common area. I was standing in the exact spot I had been when I finished my last ball just seconds before. It was silly.

    #843 3 months ago
    Quoted from epthegeek:

    This was me, by myself. Standing directly in front of the game. Having taken a picture of the backglass, I was updating our score sheet. Everybody else in the group was well back in the common area. I was standing in the exact spot I had been when I finished my last ball just seconds before. It was silly.

    Shoulda got a TD

    Seems silly to me too but I understand it. Some players are touchier than others with this stuff.

    I'll say I didn't run into a single bad interaction with anybody this year at Pinburgh which may have been a first. People seemed pretty mellow and amenable and nobody seemed to be looking for a fight.

    #844 3 months ago

    Speaking of writing down scores - one guy in my first group on Thursday had a clipboard in his backpack. That was so very nice - if I carried a backpack throughout I would absolutely bring one. I'm just not sure I want to bother with a bag through the whole thing.

    #845 3 months ago
    Quoted from epthegeek:

    Speaking of writing down scores - one guy in my first group on Thursday had a clipboard in his backpack. That was so very nice - if I carried a backpack throughout I would absolutely bring one. I'm just not sure I want to bother with a bag through the whole thing.

    Great idea. I’ll make sure and bring a clipboard next time too. And extra pens.

    #846 3 months ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    Great idea. I’ll make sure and bring a clipboard next time too. And extra pens.

    Yes. Saw that and also thought it was a great idea. Will add that to my list of things that are nice to have for next year. Tripod chair from Amazon was great this year, so thanks for those that suggested this... very easy to pack/carry, not really big enough to get in peoples way, and a welcome relief to keep the feet fresh between balls.

    #847 3 months ago
    Quoted from Pinzap:

    Yes. Saw that and also thought it was a great idea. Will add that to my list of things that are nice to have for next year. Tripod chair from Amazon was great this year, so thanks for those that suggested this... very easy to pack/carry, not really big enough to get in peoples way, and a welcome relief to keep the feet fresh between balls.

    I definitely will bring a tripod chair if I make it next year - I'm just torn on the height. Some people had double-height versions that were almost bar-stool tall versus a deep squat. Being a bean-pole, it seems like the taller one would be good, but I'm not sure. I should have asked one of those guys if I could test drive the taller version for a second; missed opportunity.

    #848 3 months ago

    My first event. It was quite a show!
    I appreciate and respect all of you that like to compete and that is great.
    I love pinball but have abolutely no desire to compete. I just like playing and collecting and those 2 things make me happy.
    To me it was great seeing the hobby florish, even in the 10 short years I have been OCD about it. At replayI was able to play games I had not played before, meeting new people (including pinsiders I only had conversed with online), checking out the vendors...
    I was also caught by surprise as to what a great town Pittsburgh has become. WOW!
    Hoping to be back next year.
    My 2 dineros about this post are that as this event is so well attended, I wished that hopefully there will be more focus going forward on Pinball as a whole and not just the competition. I still think like in most hobbies, and in pinball too, it is having more people participate that will grow the hobby.
    I was surprised not to see any vendor outside Stern there, not just manufacturers but all others too.
    To the organizers, thank you! Job well done!

    #849 3 months ago

    What are the 2020 dates for Replay FX?

    #850 3 months ago

    Anyone else have problems with Pin stadium lights falling off on to the playfield? We had it happen twice on Deadpool during B division playoffs.

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