Toronto, ON
Quick question... Considering buying a new pf and found out it is NOS and made by Illinois Pinball.
I thought Churchill was making these back in the day?
Can anyone shed some light?
(Topic ID: 72263)
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Medieval Madness
Williams, 1997
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Quoted from gunstarhero:Illinois Pinball made a bunch of parts while they had the license. This is probably one of them. So it's most likely not strictly NOS as much as it's an old repro.
Thanks for replying.
Can any comment as to the quality of these compared to original playfields.
1 month later
Anyone know if these ramps will work with original MM?
http://www.planetarypinball.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=PPS-A-21701
Connectors appear to be newer MMR style?
LTG ??
Quoted from Thor-NL:Those are not 'original' style for sure.
Anyone know if they can be converted by changing the connector?
Quoted from choseh:Can anyone tell me who sells moats that are closest to the original? I've seen plenty of places, especially here in Germany, that sell versions that are either some weird poisonous greenish tone, look nothing like the original, are clear or whatever. I'd be happy to buy an original one in good shape too.
PPS has them, and they look exactly like stock. Only thing is they have the new CGC connectors on them.
I'm waiting to hear from LTG to see if these connectors can be converted, as I want to change my ramps.
Quoted from choseh:So they're actually MMR moats? I'd like to keep the original green but without any extra coating on the bottom. AFAIK the MMR ones come somewhat coated on the bottom (for LED flasher diffusion(?))
Didn't look like it to me. I have an extra moat somewhere. If I can find it, I'll take a photo for you.
Quoted from choseh:I think I'll just go with the MMR moat, because it seems the best quality wise. If anyone has managed to add a resistor to reduce the 22V from the original flashers to 12V and feels like sharing the solution, that would be great. Also I'd appreciate some info on whether the switch connector is compatible out of the box.
I doubt it is. I replaced one of my trolls with an MMR one, and I had to swap the connector with the old one (just snipped it off, and soldered it to the new assembly). I'm guessing that the moat and ramps would be the same, but I trust nothing until LTG says it's so
1 week later
Quoted from Thor-NL:When installed properly (flush with PF) no it won't
Does Pinbits ever restock these? Seem to always be out of stock.
Quoted from gunstarhero:Just get them from Cliffy at Passion for Pinball directly. Pam never updates the pinbits site anymore.
Aren't the Cliffy ones different from Pinbits?
2 weeks later
My 4 year old who barely even notices there are pinball machines in our house, asks me yesterday if we can play MM. Of course I jump quickly at the opportunity and when we get to the game, he says he wants me to play so I can get the castle. He sits on my lap on a stool and we start hitting castles. Next thing you know, we're at the 6th castle, and we're one catapult shot away from BFTK.
I point up at the translite, and tell him we're going to fight the bad king for his castle, and he gets super excited. Then I hit the post and drain out the side. Boooooo daddy!
Haha... Was still super fun to have that moment with him though 
Weirdest thing just happened... Was having a game and right in the middle of it, the power just went out.
I have it connected to a surge protector, and nothing else in the house went off.
Here's a video I took of what happens now when I turn it on:
Anyone know what this might be?
Quoted from Thor-NL:Had this happening last year, the advice was first to reseat all the ribbon cables and give the ASIC a push, that was step one.
Did not solve the problem.
Installed a new set of ribbon cables and my problem was solved.
So i would begin there
Did you have the exact same thing as my video?
I'll try reseating the ribbon cables. If I need to replace them, is there a certain type I should order? Where do you get them? Just computer/electronic store?
One more thing... After it crashed, I powered off and then on, and it prompted that all factory settings had been reset.
Quoted from Manny65:Maybe it tripped the 5v watchdog circuit?? This would look like someone turned the power off and back on again - is that what you saw?
Although it doesn't explain the DMD issue you are now seeing or the why it reset the game to factory settings
Do you have any other WPC-95 games? If so you can swap over components to help troubleshoot where the issue lies. It seems to me that the game powers on correctly but the DMD is having issues. Can you play a game and if so is the game play normal? First thing I'd suggest is reseating your cables, if no luck and you have another WPC-95 game I'd look at swapping your power driver board or cables associated with the DMD
Unfortunately I don't have any other WPC-95 games. I knew I should have bought that Shadow!
I'll try reseating everything on the boards.
Is it worthwhile getting one of these in the future?
Quoted from Manny65:They are great to have one on hand, but always good to resolve the underlying issue.
Play some games on the machine and see if it resets again - quite often this will happen if you double flip (ie hit both flippers at the same time) or it multi-ball. If you get more resets then you should firstly reseat your cables - I don't recall the specific cables for WPC-95 but you'll find plenty of references if you google "5v reset WPC-95", it'll also tell you how to troubleshoot if this becomes a persistent issue.
I just turned the game on and it seemed to be fine. Played a quick game and when I got into multi-ball it crapped.out on me.
Then it started doing this, and allowed me to play:
Quoted from Manny65:I'd reseat all your cables and ribbon cables, and ensure any socketed chips are firmly pressed in.
So what actually happened in multi-ball? Did it reset (power off and then back on again) or just started the behaviour you've shown in the clip? The audio and video come from the same board on a WPC-95, but I'd start with your cables for now. Unless you are getting resets, I don't believe kahr's board isn't going to help fix this
I will hopefully have a chance to try reseating everything today.
In the last video, the game completely shut down when multi-ball started. Not sure if it has anything to do with multi-ball or was just a coincidence.
Then it booted back up after a few seconds, I pushed the start button, ball launched, and I started recording the video.
Quoted from wiggy07:My Medieval did that when I had battery corrision on the MPU board. Make sure you have no corrision of any kind on the board.
Would the corrosion be near the batteries or could it be elsewhere?
Quoted from bobukcat:Directly below and above the battery holder is where you would see it. You might want to post your issue to the Tech: Modern Game thread to get more exposure and suggestions. Despite the popularity of this game this thread doesn't really see a lot of posts / traffic.
Thanks! I have posted it in Tech and we'll maybe put a little more information there to hopefully get some answers.
First though I'm going to reseat all of the connectors.
Quoted from wiggy07:Yup, my corrosion was below the battery holder, Fine traces were eaten by acid. I had the board fixed by Chris Hibler. He does awesome work.
Funny story. I got the game from the seller years ago. When I bought the game I noticed faint traces of battery acid on the battery holder. I called the seller and told him to check his other games to make sure he changed the batteries and look for any damage. I cleaned my holder with acid, alcohol, etc to remove the acid traces of the battery. Well everything was working for a couple years. One day I turned on my game and had the same issue you are having. I noticed all the traces were damaged from battery acid. The moral to the story, if you have battery acid damage on your battery holder, best thing is to cut it off and put on a new one, years later the acid could come back to cause damage to any board. I also have remote battery holders on all of my Williams and older Stern games.
Do you have a contact for Chris? Or what is his username here?
I'm curious as to why people go with offboard battery holders, when you could just install NVRAM?
Quoted from wiggy07:Bobukcat is correct, on Williams 95 era games, the chip needs to be soldered and unsoldered from the board. I have about 15 games that I would need to do this with. Number one it is money to buy the chip, number two it is time and patience to install the NVRAM. A remote battery holder does the trick, I change the batteries once a year and I am good to go.
Chris Hibler's email address and website.
[email protected]
Website :
http://chrishiblerpinball.com/repair-blog/
Thanks!
I've sent him an email. I'm going to hopefully get a few minutes to remove the board and I will post photos of any damage I might be able to see.
1 week later
Battery corrosion cleaned up, NVRAM installed, and everything working great.
Thanks for all the help
1 month later
1 month later
Quoted from jalpert:Just got a MM! I wish I could say it's all good, I'm having a problem with airballs. From what I can tell, the ball is launching off the troll flaps, but targets, protectors, and even the slings seem to launch the ball.
The worst are the troll flaps, all I could find is a really old thread about some people who got decals that were too thick. I ordered new flaps and decals, but what is your guy's experience? Do the troll flaps cause your ball to jump? Is some airtime normal?
Even the slings are causing jumps. For example, the ball launched off the left sling, over the shooter lane and into the side of the cab. I've never even seen that before.
Also, the ball is jumpy off some of the protectors. For example, as I shoot into the ball lock shot, the ball jumped and hit the castle over the top of the shot.
I guess my questions are, is airtime to be expected in this game? Is there anything specific I should do or look for on the troll flaps to keep the ball from launching? Anyone have any idea why a ball would launch off a slingshot, I can't think of any.
Thanks!
Do you have an original or Mirco pf? I find airballs happen since getting this Mirco.
That's why I'm looking for a NOS playfield. Anyone want to sell me one???
Quoted from jalpert:Because I hate it when people don't post solutions....
The new troll ramp flaps with installed decal from Marco came in. I couldn't really test the thickness of the current flaps without taking them off, what a pain in the ass these things are to work with.
I broke out the caliper and the flaps on my game of unknown origin were consistently .1mm thicker than the flap with pre installed sticker I got from Marco. And the new flaps made all the difference in the world. The ball was getting air off those and hitting the standup targets high, and that was catapulting them into the air in all kinds of crazy ways.
Also, if you have a restored or cleared playfield, especially if you wax like I do, you might have to move down a color in flipper strength and also down in sling strength. I still get airballs off the targets, but I have new ones coming along with new pieces of foam backing which I'm confident will fix the few airballs I still get.
Can you send a link to the flaps.
Thanks!
2 months later
Quoted from freegame450:Try reseating the ribbon cables if you have not already done so.
Thanks so much! It's working again. Hopefully it will stay that way.
Is it advised to just replace the ribbon cables?
Quoted from Micky:Usually if you can reseat them and the problem goes away, then they will continue to work fine. Only really need to replace them when they are damaged or reseating them no longer works.
Noob question... Why would they not be able to be reseated?
Quoted from wamoc:The connector can get work down so it is no longer able to make a good connection. It is also possible for damage to happen inside the cable where even with perfect connections, the wires inside are damaged and not able to work anymore.
Interesting.
Do any of the pinball stores online sell a full set of ribbon cables? Or do I have to go an individually find each one?
1 week later
2 months later
Quoted from Soulrider911:I thought I would share this. I made a mini MM pinball machine for a co-worker[quoted image][quoted image]
Are you selling these?
Great work!
4 weeks later
Quoted from KJL:This has been correct for all the WPC-95 Games I have had. My AFM actually had the stamp on the top edge of the playfield (LS) not the bottom like my MM which has Sep 05 CCC. I don't remember where the stamp was on MB but it had one also.
The other thing to look for if you look at Manny65 pics is that the Mirco repros I have had didn't actually add the insert under the left side under the apron. However, I don't remember IPB doing MM but on TAF and MB they did have the insert.
From these pics, can you tell if it's an original NOS or repro?
Screenshot_20200512-174620~2 (resized).pngScreenshot_20200512-174627~2 (resized).pngQuoted from Edster:Mine is a bit more closed but not completely.
I really have to get that missing plastic...[quoted image]
Yours looks more normal from what I remember my remake looking like.
Anyone know how to adjust this?
Quoted from Manny65:I'm not sure what the coloured thing is at the bottom right of the PF but it's the same as the repro PF Marco was selling (and it's not on the original PFs)
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/36-50059
[quoted image]
This is not a Mirco. He has that funny looking shooter lane. This may be IPB.
1 month later
Anyone know if this remade assembly would work with the original MM?
I assume a couple of the smaller connectors would have to be changed, and there would need to be diodes attached to the switches?
ebay.com link: BRAND NEW Medieval Madness Pinball Drawbridge Assembly Complete MM and MMR
Does anyone know if I can get this assembly to work with the original game?
Two of the small connectors are for the remake, and the switches do not have diodes like the original does.
I know I used remake troll assemblies and just soldered on the original connectors, so does anyone know if I could do that here too?
And would I need to add the diodes?
Thanks!
IMG_20200628_140801 (resized).jpgIMG_20200628_140823 (resized).jpgGetting a "Sound Board Interface Error" sometimes when I turn on the game. If I start a game, there is no audio at all, but when I drain the ball, the sound starts again on ball 2.
Anyone???
1 month later
Turned my game on, and the DMD went scrambled, and the left flipper activated and stay up. I could also hear a buzzing sound coming from the cabinet (maybe speakers).
Anyone know what this could be?
I turned it off and on, and it loaded up fine.
7 months later
Can anyone confirm if these are the switches needed for the slingshots.
https://www.pinballlife.com/williamsbally-set-of-slingshot-switches-with-brackets.html
Thanks!
2 months later
Quoted from transprtr4u:Just coming into the Club Tuesday...
Many years to get here , can't wait .
First ?
The brass lockdown bar and side rails is that OME ?
FINALLY!!! hahaha
Congrats man, I know you've been looking for this title for a long time, so hopefully you got the example you wanted. Actually that probably doesn't matter, because you're likely going to rip it apart and make it look better than new
1 week later
Quoted from The_Pump_House:Hope you are posting a finally for me some day.
Let's make it happen!
Quoted from transprtr4u:Anyone have a pic of what the original backboard of the playfield looks like ...
Mine has the acrylic mod .
I believe this is the original part:
1 week later
3 weeks later
Quoted from darkryder:Mounted the remake topper on my original MM! Now just need to figure out how to wire it up. Either way, it looks bad ass! Definitely of the best toppers ever
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Super awesome topper, but no chance is it better than the AFMr topper. That's the GOAT.
Quoted from darkryder:I think it’s just as cool, plus it doesn’t rattle and make a ton of noise like the AFMR topper. They’re both damn cool, though!
I will gladly agree
1 month later
Quoted from transprtr4u:Finally lit up the plastic covering the catapult
[quoted image]
Looks awesome!
How's you do it?
Quoted from transprtr4u:Removed the screw that holds the catapult in place , got a longer one and a spacer .. desoldered the wires off the Comet warm white PCB board and soldered on longer length wire.
Ran wire behind the post and soldered to GI socket...
If your using warm white in your GI ...
Let me know Mr. Castles... happy to mail you one ... still have the address
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Always generous my brother! I love you for that!
I'll text you in the week.
2 weeks later
Quoted from transprtr4u:Finally completed... 3 coats of pure wax,complete shop job, mylar placed at spots of vulnerability,all micro switch have been covered,2SMD warm white GI, 4 SMD color matching insert lighting, cheap plastic standoffs removed and replaced with standard black spacers, all hardware replaced with black oxide screws and lock washers ...
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Good job! Looks gorgeous!
Quoted from nicoy3k:I didn’t do any wiring. I installed new heads with illuminated led eyes. Though I currently have the leds unplugged because I thought they may have been causing the issue… the left ups switch looks fine, and it works fine when I test it. Though I am getting a test report that says is bad… when I do a switch test the only issue is that the left troll head activates both the left and right head switches…
I did have to take the troll head switch apart to fit the head on there, maybe I put it back in the wrong order? Would that cause something like this?
Edit: so I fixed this issue. It was a problem with the mod. Thanks
Just throwing this out. But could it be that the leaf switches are not making contact? Maybe the new head is positioned slightly out more, not making enough contact?
10 months later
Quoted from matthewra:it is back ... after 4 years out for long-delayed renovation (guy got busy with dream job), NOS playfield, 2-headed dragon, OCD non-flickering GI LEDs, black powder coated, colorDMD, new decals, NVRAM, topper etc.
Photos to follow...[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Looks great!
Where's you find the NOS playfield?
2 months later
Quoted from dar8dar:I joined the club bought this a few weeks ago
[quoted image]
It took me a couple of years to find mine. I had a remake, but always wanted an original to have a little piece of pinball history and nostalgia.
I had the OG and remake in my basement side-by-side, and despite what some think, there is definitely a difference in the way they play.
In some ways, I prefer the snappier flippers on the remake, but with the original, the more genuine 90s B/W feel just can't be replaced.
Both games are great, but for me personally, the original was the one I wanted.
I've purchased almost every part to one day do a full restoration. All I need is an NOS playfield, and I'll be set.
2 months later
Looks awesome!
I want to do the same, but I need to find an original playfield.
Anyone know where I might find one?
2 months later
Quoted from Jkush18:I used to refer to the destroy the ring mode on lotr as shit the bed mode cuz that’s what typically happens lol.
I love and HATE that DTR in LOTR.
For some reason, I can be locked in, hitting everything, and once I get in that mode, I choke!
Same goes for BFTK in MM. For some reason, I can never hit the orbits once I get there, and it I do, I usually am down to 1 ball, and hitting all those gate shots on single ball is super tough to do.
I've beat the game 3-4 times, but everything had to really come together for me.
I feel like AFM is much easier to beat.
3 months later
Quoted from LTG:To black end of diode lug.
LTG : )
Ok, now I'm confused...
I just pulled out my other troll, which is actually a brand new one from planetary pinball that was made for MMR. A little while back, I think I had asked you how I could wire this in, and you suggested taking the original harness, and attaching it to the new troll assembly, and adding a diode.
When I did that, I started getting tilt warnings every time troll multi-ball would start.
I believe at the time you had mentioned that I may have wired it incorrectly, and that was causing the tilt to go off.
Now that I have it off, and I'm looking at it, the wiring seems to be correct based on your last reply.
In this photo, the green wire in on the bottom lug, the silver band of the diode is on the top back lug, and other end of the diode, and white wire are on the top front lug.
What am I missing here?
Thanks again
PXL_20230710_054147842 (resized).jpgQuoted from LTG:Here are pictures of mine. Hard to tell in your picture but it looks like you have the white wire on the silver band end of the diode instead of the black end of the diode.
LTG : )
[quoted image][quoted image]
So the black end of the diode (not the silver band), and the white wire are both on that top rear lug?
Also, are we certain that I can use the new troll mech from Planetary pinball (the ones from MMR) and just put the original Williams connector on it with the diode?
1 week later
Quoted from LTG:Should be a 1N4001. But I use 1N4004 or 1N4007. 1N4001 is lower voltage, ( all of these work fine on your switch matrix ) So I stick to 1N4004 or 1N4007, which are higher voltage for coils. That way I won't accidentally get a 1N4001 on a coil at some point.
LTG : )
So I put the trolls back in the game, and and the credit for has gone away, as well as the issue I was having with the first ball having no sound. The sound would only go on after the first ball drained and ball 2 began.
However, I now have a new issue. The catapult mech starts firing anytime that the trolls are up.
Any ideas what this could be? Did we use the wrong diode?
We used a 1N4001 I think.
Just reread your posts.
Ok, so 1N4001 should not be used.
Does this make sense that it's firing the catapult though???
Oh, and lastly, is there any danger or risk to keeping it in my game until I can get the right diode?
Quoted from DumbAss:Do NOT use a 1N4001 for a solenoid diode. These are inadequate. They are rated to 50V. Since back EMF is typically 3x-4x the originating voltage used to generate the EMF they are not rated high enough. The solenoid voltage is typically 75VDC. 75VDC multiply 4 equals 300VDC. You need a diode capable of blocking a minimum of 300VDC. The 1N4004 is rated at 400VDC. The 1N4007 is rated at 1kVDC.
So either a 1N4004 or 1N4007 would be what I need?
Quoted from LTG:No. 1N4001 is okay for switches, don't ever use on a coil.
If you wired it up wrong or got the diode on backwards, that makes sense.
Compare to your other troll. White wire and black end of diode to a lug, green wire to a lug, silver band end of diode to a lug.
LTG : )
The MMR troll is wired the same as the original one.
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