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(Topic ID: 295912)

Gottlieb Mid-1960s Lock Down Bars (?)

By Mopar

2 years ago

Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

11 posts
6 Pinsiders participating
Latest reply 2 years ago by jrpinball
Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 2 years ago

???

Quick question.
I have a couple Subways with one having a lock down bar with the end caps,
and the other the newer style.
The same with the 2 Hurdy Gurdys. One with, the other the newer style.
Any idea when the transaction was made? IPDB shows both Subway and
Hurdy Gurdy in collections with the newer style, yet each machine's flyer
shows it with the end caps. I'm thinking all Subs and Hurdy's were produced
with the lock down bar having the end caps, or could it be this is when the
change to the newer style was made?

#2 2 years ago

EJS

Pinball Outpost

11y 223K 14,861 1

Following as I am also end-cap-curious about this.

As a collector I like the proper end rail. As a player I’d throw all the end cap styles away and replace with the newer style. Well, probably trade cause I’m guessing there’s more demand for the older ones.

#3 2 years ago

KJH

pinhead52

Pinside+ Frequent

Colleyville, TX

10y 91,050 5,223 13 2

Nobody likes the feel of the welded endcap... I suggest somebody has swapped them out. The flyer is our bible...

#4 2 years ago

???

Mopar

Pinside+ Member

Unknown

7y 80,050 4,180

Most likely, but Subway has a chance.
Dancing Lady's (next game produced after Subway) flyer shows the new style.
King of Diamonds' (next Wedge Head produced after Subway) flyer shows new style.
There's a chance during Subway's run is when the transaction was made.

#5 2 years ago

WEN

jrpinball

Pinside+ Addict

10y 115K 10,722

OP
Quoted from Mopar:
Most likely, but Subway has a chance.
Dancing Lady's (next game produced after Subway) flyer shows the new style.
King of Diamonds' (next Wedge Head produced after Subway) flyer shows new style.
There's a chance during Subway's run is when the transaction was made.

I've often wondered about this myself. "Subway" would be the last game produced using the cast metal end caps. However, many I've seen, including my brother's game which came out of an arcade in 1977, have the newer style bar. This leads me to believe that it's likely that much, if not all of the production run of "Subway" already had the newer style bar installed.
"Cross Town", which was one month earlier, is usually found with the older type bar.
"Dancing Lady" had many "firsts" for Gottlieb, and featured the new style lockbar on all copies produced.
"Hurdy Gurdy" should have the cast metal end caps, but it's possible that some were converted by operators, since the new bar was readily available as a spare part by the end of 1966.

#6 2 years ago

???

Mopar

Pinside+ Member

Unknown

7y 80,050 4,180

Quoted from jrpinball:
it's likely that much, if not all of the production run of "Subway" already had the newer style bar installed.

Yes. After studying IPDB a little bit, I agree. All Hurdy Gurdys had the end cap bars.
However, the Subway flyer shows the lock down bar having end caps, so I'm thinking
there's somewhat of a possibility the early runs had the caps, but the later machines
is maybe when Gottlieb converted to the newer style.

#7 2 years ago

dmarston

Pinside member

11y 59,900 1,547

OP
Quoted from Mopar:
...I'm thinking there's somewhat of a possibility the early runs had the caps, but the later machines is maybe when Gottlieb converted to the newer style.

More specifically, it's possible that the "sample run" of about 100 sample games had the older style. The photo for the flyer always depicts a pre-production game, of course, because the flyers have to be printed up in time for the game starting production.
.................David Marston

#8 2 years ago

???

Mopar

Pinside+ Member

Unknown

7y 80,050 4,180

Quoted from dmarston:
it's possible that the "sample run" of about 100 sample games had the older style.

Good point, so I went out and looked at the Subway I recently got in with the older style bar,
and I didn't even notice it before, but part of the front of the machine has been heavily touched
up. Painted some red where blue should be, but still, overall, this cabinet's nicer and will be the
one I'll be keeping..
Anyways, because of the added layer of paint, it wasn't easy to make out, but the last 3 numbers
are 602, so no sample, but that doesn't totally mean what you said couldn't be, although I have
a pretty good feeling that that older style bar is the one that originally came with that machine..

#9 2 years ago

LXL

Isochronic_Frost

Saratoga Silverball

7y 221K 9,408 108 1 1

OP
Quoted from Mopar:
Good point, so I went out and looked at the Subway I recently got in with the older style bar,
and I didn't even notice it before, but part of the front of the machine has been heavily touched
up. Painted some red where blue should be, but still, overall, this cabinet's nicer and will be the
one I'll be keeping..
Anyways, because of the added layer of paint, it wasn't easy to make out, but the last 3 numbers
are 602, so no sample, but that doesn't totally mean what you said couldn't be, although I have
a pretty good feeling that that older style bar is the one that originally came with that machine..

The numbers are also stamped inside the machine on the first crossbar usually covered by a piece of paper. You should register your serial number on IPSND.net!

Also you kept saying transactions did you mean transition?

#10 2 years ago

???

Mopar

Pinside+ Member

Unknown

7y 80,050 4,180

Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:
did you mean transition?

Yea, transition fits much better.
I went through many and I'm thinking all those Wedge Heads
also had the number under the upper apron. Left side.
I'm sure I'll be going through this one this Winter. I'll spot that
number elsewhere someplace..

#11 2 years ago

WEN

jrpinball

Pinside+ Addict

10y 115K 10,722

My brother has a "Subway" which he got from an arcade back in 1977.
We played it in that arcade for probably two years prior to that, so it was only nine years old at the time.
It also has a very low serial number, but it had, and still has the later type lockdown bar. This leads me to believe that most, if not all copies of "Subway" were fitted with the new style bar, although it wasn't officially announced until the release of the subsequent model, "Dancing Lady".

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