From my experience the short answer is no. I have seen EM's from the 60's and 70's that once thoroughly gone threw were more reliable then their WPC or even Whitestar counterparts.

I have seen NIB games that had issues before their first ball plunge.

And of coarse I have seen your average routed pin (all era's) that was a disaster and needed everything under the sun worked on before being made reliable.

After making said pin reliable I think you can say that certain systems (Most EM's, Early SS Stern, Williams system 11, Gottlieb System 3, Whitestar, SAM) were more rugged and or had less design flaws then others but thats usually only after addressing the known issues with that system.

To me, certain problems like (loose connections, switch errors, alignment issues, blown lights, weak flippers,exc.) are universal to pinball and I don't think of them as reliability issues. Just regular maintenance.

Thanks
Blake

Here is my reasoning:

- EM's - Properly rebuild or refurbish line cord, steppers, switches, score reels, flippers and other mechanical assemblies in the back box, lower cabinet and playfield and you will have a TANK of a machine that stays in better working condition the more you play it. And your issues will be minor, cost less and usually quickly resolved.

- Early SS - Properly rebuild the rectifier board, power supply, install new header pins (male/female) on the MPU and driver boards, cap the sound board, new flipper mechs and kick out assemblies. These games will be rock solid. Replacement parts will be available both new and used. Lots of folks in the community available to help troubleshoot if needed.

- Williams System 11 - These games have one of the best hardware systems of any pin era and when properly rebuilt they are work horses. Say no more. The documentation and reputation speaks for its self.

- Gottlieb System 3 - Quite possibly the most rugged mechanical assemblies ever built. Most of these games were built with superior materials and often times resemble their premium or LE counterparts (Look at a Stargate if you doubt me). The boards in these games often times have no visual scars from aftermarket rework. The connections unlike Gottlieb System 80 are rugged and quite often need little more then a quick cleaning with your fiber glass eraser. Flippers in these games after a fresh rebuild are absolute rockets. And of coarse we can't forget silk screened parts locations on the bottom side of the playfield. Everyone wishes this was the norm.

I could keep going. And of coarse the opinions will too. But to say that my statement is bananas tells me you probably didn't read everything I said.

Everything has problems. You maintaining the Co-op know that better then most. But after things are brought back from the dead then the systems I mention are in fact strong contenders for reliability. I will admit, most folks would not and do not go through the machine in the briefly described manor I suggest. And often times revert to quick solutions such as reflowing solder rather then replacing it, cleaning up headers rather then replacing them, repinning connectors rather then buying new ones, leaving old fuse clips or caps installed, so on and so on.

Anyone with the new Stern or JJ argument can take a quick peek at the dozens of threads created for the shit show that is NEW pinball (lack of) quality.

Thanks
Blake

Have you been in my game room Steve? If you could give me a run down on the pins that I own I'll give you two quarters next time I'm at the Co-Op. Same two quarters I give my son when he surprises me.

I've unboxed, setup, FIXED and played enough NIB pins to know they still have problems. And as long as these companies continue to put lower quality products into certain aspects of their high end pins, these problems and others will continue to pop up. No different then previous eras. The biggest difference between them and their 30+ year old counterparts is whether or not you can afford to fix them.

Thanks
Blake

If you have refurbished/rebuilt your game in a proper fashion then this has been my experience. The more time you spend initially will pay huge dividends in the end.

Example: A friend of mine is very fond of older EM's, both pinball and arcade/amusement. This portion (yes he has more) of his collection probably has an average age of about 1965 - 1970, with a number of machines coming from the 50's. Probably a dozen machines. I can honestly say that these machines play flawlessly and were a big reason EM's now excite me. From the gun games, to the horse racing, to the pinball, his machines just seem to keep your interest.

Why? Because they play the way they were intended too all those years ago. And that only comes from bringing a 50 year old machine back up to that level. You can't grab an old machine put it in your arcade, do the minimal and expect it to be as reliable as one made in the last ten years. If thats what this topic is inquiring about then I misinterpreted the question.

But if you do decide to go through a machine, and I mean really go through it. Not necessarily spend a bunch of money, but certainly a bunch of time. Then I think you can have some very good success playing the hell out of an older (50's-90's) machine and not see it break down in the manner some folks would have you believe.

I feel bad for the folks who have not seen these examples in the hobby. They are missing some real treats

Thanks
Blake

Meow meow meow meow!
It's a fun game.

Thanks
Blake

I could certainly see this happening to folks. There is a learning curve on all types and eras of coin op. Pins - Vids - Jukes - Change machines - Vending. Its all intimidating at first glance. And newer pins like Stern and JJ are pushing for a "swaptronics" type of repair that allows the user to have minimal knowledge of what they are replacing or what has gone wrong and yet still fix the problem. The difference is cost. At least for the folks who own a machine out of warranty.

I personally like having a high probability of finding and changing the one component that might have gone bad, rather then replace the entire module. But I also like Vids so what does that tell you

Thanks
Blake