(Topic ID: 97220)

☺ Another adoption i made ▲Wms Expo

By Pin-it

9 years ago


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  • Expo Williams, 1969

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There are 81 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 9 years ago

Was at my brothers for the weekend i knew someone was selling an Williams Expo on Craigslist,my brother had sent an email to the seller prior to my knowledge and said you want a pinball. Ummm OK..
Quick stop at the atm and its off to the races.

Here is the NJ resting area till he brings it up to me as i didnt bring my truck this time.

Some decent features on it.
A glutton for punishment...

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A little backglass flaking but overall its in good condition.
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Post edited by Pin-it: auto spell correct got me

#2 9 years ago

Congrats on the new addition Pin-it!

Ken

#3 9 years ago
Quoted from Pin-it:

Was at my brothers for the weekend i knew someone was selling an Williams Expo on Craigslist,my brother had sent an email to the seller prior to my knowledge and said you want a pinball. Ummm OK..
Quick stop at the atm and its off to the races.
Here is the NJ resting area till he brings it up to me as i didnt bring my truck this time.
Some decent features on it.
A gluten for punishment...

A little backglass flaking but overall its in good condition.

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I think you mean "glutton". If not, you need to go on a gluten free diet, but that would mean no beer!

#4 9 years ago
Quoted from EM-PINMAN:

Congrats on the new addition Pin-it!
Ken

Thanks, more to fix is a good thing i think,cuts into playing time though.

#5 9 years ago
Quoted from jrpinball:

I think you mean "glutton". If not, you need to go on a gluten free diet, but that would mean no beer!

Darn auto spell correction,
Yuengs and wings in about a half hour.

#6 9 years ago

That pin will clean up nice. Does the cabinet have its original factory paint? Nice find.

#7 9 years ago

I was eye-balling that Expo on CL...

Ad said there wasn't any PF Glass. Looks like there's no hold-down plate for the glass either. Did it come with legs?

PF and BG look really nice.

#8 9 years ago
Quoted from Vic_Camp:

That pin will clean up nice. Does the cabinet have its original factory paint? Nice find.

Thanks Vic.
Yes original paint is intact,in fact no carvings on it. Only bad spots that were worn in was the top outer backbox frame and the front of the coin door wood is chipped out by the right leg mount area.
The guy who sold it to me had it sitting in his garage for two years,but didnt get around to getting up and running and was apprehensive about working on an Em.

#9 9 years ago
Quoted from Reddogger:

I was eye-balling that Expo on CL...
Ad said there wasn't any PF Glass. Looks like there's no hold-down plate for the glass either. Did it come with legs?
PF and BG look really nice.

Yeah no lockdown bar or glass but 4 matching legs were there,plus no back door which happens to be trend lately, i think someone's hoarding them.
I have score on the lockbar ,already have a glass and will make a metal door for it with my sheet metal stash.

The backglass has some small issues but looks good ,the playfield should cleanup nice though as there isnt much wear on it. Plastics are pretty good . Coils papers were unburnt which is a good sign. Overall a great buy on it.

#10 9 years ago

yea, I see a ton of EM's with missing head doors. I don't know what the hell people do with them.

#11 9 years ago

Maybe a rust epidemic on floorpans in cars.

#12 9 years ago

Looks like a great project. Congrats.

#13 9 years ago

Haha yeah I was the wingman, transport and chief haggler... I can be a bad influence...

Hopefully get it out of my garage and on the road in a week...

Don't want the wife to start thinking its mine... She'd be like NFW

#14 9 years ago
Quoted from jrpinball:

I think you mean "glutton". If not, you need to go on a gluten free diet, but that would mean no beer!

Actually... They do make gluten free beer... For the gluttons who can't do without....

- jeff

#15 9 years ago

Post some pics of the original paint on the cabinet....

#16 9 years ago
Quoted from IntoPinball:

Post some pics of the original paint on the cabinet....

Ok

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The leg area is the only real bad spot,but an easy fix.
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This should clean up well.
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#17 9 years ago
Quoted from IntoPinball:

Actually... They do make gluten free beer... For the gluttons who can't do without....
- jeff

Yeah, I've seen it, but it probably tastes like crap. It probably has no barley malt in it. If anyone here has tried it, give us a report.

#18 9 years ago

Ive tried the Greens Gluten free

It was meh....

--Jeff

#19 9 years ago

I have no need for Gluten free beer, so I have never tried it either...

#20 9 years ago
Quoted from Pin-it:

Ok

The leg area is the only real bad spot,but an easy fix.

This should clean up well.

Original paint looks pretty decent to me, just looked at it first hand a few minutes ago...

#21 9 years ago
Quoted from way2wyrd:

Ive tried the Greens Gluten free

It was meh....

--Jeff

Jeff is a Gluten for punishment.

Ken

#22 9 years ago
Quoted from jrpinball:

it probably tastes like crap.

Quoted from way2wyrd:

Ive tried the Greens Gluten free

It was meh....

The consumer reporter of Beer.
Gluten free is not for me.

1 week later
#23 9 years ago

Well its made its journey to PA on Monday (thanks Brother) and we assembled it on Tuesday,i had moved from where i bring them into the basement from outside to the the other section,wow i forgot how tight (2"-3" to spare) these Williams are.

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Got a manual and instruction/score card set from PBR as my brother was placing an order for his machines,great one less thing to chase.

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Before i go and take it apart i like to see what gremlins may exist,i give it a once over comb through to see what is hacked or broken first.
Now under the hood,found a few faults which was to be expected. The ball count unit was in need of a cleaning and lube so i got that done,3 score reels had the upper zero break switch not separating,Ok small adjustment and burnish all the score reel contacts are done.

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Some of the Game over relay contacts need a adjust/burnish. I also saw a factory b-w wire (photos above^)that was not connected to anything which was replaced by a blue wire for some reason? I will have to check the old oem wire to see if it has continuity and put it back to its proper spots.

The coin switches will start a game but the reset button is hit or miss so it l will look into the wiring and clean all the jones plugs to start with a fresh connection.
On to the back box the spinner wasnt working as i knew it wouldnt so a scuff pad over the tracers to get them shiny did the trick.

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The ball count unit has a small issue on one of the tracers,it was missing where the rotating shoe would stop to end the game for a 3 ball game no big deal as the 5 ball game over tracer is fine,plus i set all my games to 5 ball anyway.
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A couple of rollovers needed a burnish for features to work but otherwise its 95% running the other 5 being the reset button circuit.

#24 9 years ago

Now this has me a little puzzled , i see it has its wires going to 2 game counters.
Is a diode to prevent backfeed?

Anyone know what this is?

Post edited by Pin-it: Clarification

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I also assume one is for the total games played and the other for free games awarded.

#25 9 years ago

Hmm, that is curious. It certainly looks like the wire on the left was added later.

#26 9 years ago
Quoted from Pin-it:

Well its made its journey to PA on Monday (thanks Brother)

Yeah... I'm good like that...

#27 9 years ago

Playing it yet? I'm sure you have it somewhat cleaned and functioning pretty well at this point...

#28 9 years ago

I was^^ till i got the cleaning bug,apron off ,ball arch,perimeter rails,and partial depopulate is where its at now.
Tumble time is in stages for now, slowing momentum.

#29 9 years ago

How do you like the game play?

#30 9 years ago

A little at a time.

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Sure is dirty.
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#31 9 years ago
Quoted from Vic_Camp:

How do you like the game play?

Hi Vic,
Well it was high tapped ,everything works just needed some contact cleaning to get it running enough to see if it all works, the pop bumpers are a little sluggish but after i tear them down and refurb the contacts and mechanical of them the dc power will be more than strong enough for me to remove it from high tap.
As far as play its got a lot of action between the backglass spinner , the up posts and ball gates, its a lot of features going on.
So far so good on it, all that it needs parts wise is a ring change out ,lane guides if they dont cleanup good,flipper plastics,cracked flipper bushing and pop bumper caps that are a little tired but they might cleanup,i lucked out that none of the coils are smoked.

#32 9 years ago

I hate prop rods. What i do is use a nylon strap to hold it at the playfield end bracket and hook it to one of the backbox bolts,just dont tighten too much or plastics may get broken (you can use foam waterline insulators or foam sheets if you want)by pulling too tight. Also where the playfield contacts inside the cabinet rails there i attach 2 quick grip clamps on the rails in front of them to prevent the playfield slipping forward.

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Clamps at rails inside the cabinet.

#33 9 years ago

Just gave mine back to my brother. Posts in outlanes were added. Original paint looks pretty good. I repainted mine based on what I could see still on the wood. Didn't get it exact No internet back then to look at pictures.
The wiring and contacts brings back lots of bad memories

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#34 9 years ago
Quoted from sc204:

good. I repainted mine based on what I could see still on the wood. Didn't get it exact

Looks very nice to me sc204

Quoted from sc204:

The wiring and contacts brings back lots of bad memories

Yeah some people fear Em wiring and functions,but i say bring it on. Love them when they dont work as its a great way to keep the mind fresh,the worse the better imo.

#35 9 years ago

A little tutorial. Follow the lines.
A great thing about the Expo is you can fix some things and its still playable as seen here i took out the credit unit and it will still operate.

On the credit unit wiring you can check the knocker function by pressing the Normally open contacts (blue circle together for a split second to(with the coin door jones plug attached otherwise it wont knock) check the sound.
The yellow contact line is normally closed, as peg on the gear opens them it prevents the credit wheel from going beyond max credits.
The red line contacts are the normally open credit contacts ,credits after zero(when the peg moves away from them) will close them unless you slightly bend them shut for unlimited freeplay.
The green line is is used for the apron light to show you still have credits(its normally open )and will light when closed.

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Apron light.

#36 9 years ago

The coin door can also be unplugged at the jones plug and disassembled (i did it for car extraction )and when setup on freeplay as mine is now you can fix the coin door switches as its easier when the door is off and the machine will still fully function.
Great for a working project (and those that cant wait to play )as you can work on it and get other things polished ,cleaned or rebuilt.

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#37 9 years ago

Also when you bend these[red line- inner most contacts on the left flipper button] shut it will activate the lock relay as though you pressed it to turn it on,i prefer it this way that way in case you forgot its plugged in and start working on the circuits you dont get zapped or killed.

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#38 9 years ago

Now this where i am at , some tumble action has been used.

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#39 9 years ago

Well i had time to strip it down because it needs a cleaning.

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↑Phony did it↑? ok
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The bell is in beautiful condition.
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A rat was here,another reason to clean it.

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Legs off and ready for an outside cleaning tomorrow, weather permitting.

#40 9 years ago

Hi All,

I just purchased my first EM Pinball Machine a couple of days ago, and it just happens to be a Williams Expo. I'm as novice as it gets when it comes to this machine, and even though a good amount of it is working, it definitely needs some work. I reached out to Pin-It over the mail on here and he suggested that I hop onto this topic if I had any questions, etc... Any help in advance is most appreciated, my tools for pinball work are currently limited, though I'm planning on buying what I need as I go. I just ordered the Schematic and Manual for this particular machine and should have those in a few days, but have been trying to get some things working in the meantime. Definitely pardon my horrible knowledge of pinball terminology - I've always loved pinball, but have never been able to experience it to this extent outside of the occasional trip to the arcade when I was a kiddo - it's exciting getting my hands on this machine

Major problem areas I see at this point:

a. Start button was doing absolutely nothing, but is now resetting the game when the machine is first turned on. It also advances from 1 player to 2 player, and then does nothing after that point. I'm thinking it should keep rotating from 1 player to 2 player and back to 1 player if you keep pressing the start button, until you start playing possibly?

b. The switch at the 'drain' pardon me if that is the wrong term for it, basically where the ball falls to after going through the flippers, does not work at all. I'm not sure at this point what the issue is, all the wires in the box look to be in good shape, and without a schematic I'm at a loss to find where the wires coming off the switch are going once they hit the larger bundles. Without this switch working the outhole relay never fires, and I'd imagine the ball in play stuff will never get activated either, etc.. so I can't really verify that the actual game play is working at this point - ie: able to play the number of balls, getting the game over, etc... When I manually trigger the game over relay, the start button does work to reset the game now though, which is good.

c. When resetting the game in 2 player mode, the machine locks up constantly firing the score reset relay. I have included a video, and it appears that the 2 upper digits on the 2nd player score reset fine, whereas I thought it wasn't working at all, so there is an issue with it not being able to reset digits 1 and 2 to 0 on a reset, though the reels do work as when I play as the 2nd player the score increments as expected. I've fiddled around with the score reset relay just to make sure that all the switches were making contact and they appear to be. Possibly I need to pull out the first 2 digit reels for closer inspection - I'm really worried about doing anything like that for fear of damaging the wires.

d. On occasion during play all the lights on the playfield will go out, and some of the ones on the back glass will as well, though the game continues to work as expected, and the lights go on briefly when a bumper is hit, etc... The lights do go back on and stay on for a duration when the side switches are hit and the spinner operates. Rather odd, though this was happening after hitting the left flipper a few times, and I just recently used Pin-It's mod from this topic to close the switch contacts on the left flipper that fire the lock relay. I've fiddled with the lock relay when this happens and it appears to still be fully engaged, so not sure where the issue is, other than something with the voltage line for the lights..

---

All in all I'm feeling a bit better about working on the game, even after a couple of days. I recognized that the flippers were setup wrong and fixed that ( see attached photos if interested ). They were configured in such a way that the switches, when the flipper is held down, would never be activated. I was hoping fixing this would make things a bit quieter when the flippers were held down ( I believe I read somewhere that these switches put a lower voltage through the coil when holding the flipper buttons as less power is required versus when you are trying to hit a ball ).

Hopefully I can get the machine going 100% at some point, even as it is currently I let my 5 year old son have a go at playing the game and he was so excited, it made me feel awesome about the purchase.

Here is a video I uploaded of the machine, and the issues I'm having - might be easier to see what it is doing, if anyone can offer advice / help on how to fix the problems.

---

Thanks again for the helpful messages Pin-It, and thanks for letting me post to your topic about my machine.

Cheers,
Morgan

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Post edited by morgan: uploaded same wrong flipper photos

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#41 9 years ago
Quoted from morgan:

I've fiddled with the lock relay when this happens and it appears to still be fully engaged, so not sure where the issue is, other than something with the voltage line for the lights..

Thats where i start first ,i like when the machines on/off switch is turned on and it lights up rather than pressing the flipper button cuts down on having multiple switching(less to worry about), plus it does not do any damage and can be reversed.

Quoted from morgan:

a. Start button was doing absolutely nothing, but is now resetting the game when the machine is first turned on.

Ok ,morgan can you unplug the coin jones plug (follow the harness from the coin door to inside the front of the cabinet and evenly separate the plug as the coin switches may be whats doing that reset,dont worry it will run fine without it,its just a process of elimination. You can go back later and repair the switches if needed but for now i would do that first.

#42 9 years ago

Just watched your video up to the score reels and not resetting,that score motor will run like that until they all reset to zero.

I had the same issue,the reels slide out one by one if you push a tab and pull gently they will come out,you need to either clean and adjust the score reels leaf switch contacts, a common issue or unless you have broken wires at the reels leaf switch solder connection or both but we wont know till you look them over.

When you pressed the reset button,thats normal for adding up to the second player and not step down to player 1 after pressing it again,in order to step down you must turn the machine off,then on and press the reset button again,it will then go to player one and then another press player two then stop. But the score reels contacts have to be cleaned first other wise the sequence for the game to reset and play will never work right.
Basically you have multiple issues going on,but a step by step approach should work fine to get it running proper.

I would read this to get you up to speed on the tools and dos and donts with Em pinball machines first. http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index.htm

#43 9 years ago

I will get some photos loaded tomorrow on the score reel contacts and the removal clip on them,then we can see what you have.

#44 9 years ago

Hey Pin-It,

Thanks for the suggestions / advice - I pulled out the first 2 score reels on the 2nd player side and sure enough the leaf switches needed some adjustment. I now have the reset sequence working fine there and everything is at 0000, so problem (c) above is all set.

I pulled out the coin jones plug, and didn't notice anything different for the most part during play, or when pressing the start button. It could have been possible that before it was in 1 player mode, and pressing the start button initiated the reset when pressed when first powering the machine.

I guess my next major hurdle is getting the drain switch to do what it is supposed to do - right now balls are not being tracked, never get game over, never go from player one to player two, etc... Pin-It, do you know which relay(s) that switch feeds into so I can verify that the wires are good? Any other suggestions are more than welcome on that as well.

The game's lights still go off randomly during play, I'll take another video of that just to give an idea of what I mean by lights going out, but game still plays. Weird some of the lights remain on, but very few when this happens as if there are two voltage sources for the lights in the game?

Pin-It, if you have a chance, on the right side of the game there is a gate that should open and close - there is a small hole and it looks like a pin feeds through that to a relay on the backside. I think I have the pin ( was sitting at the bottom of the machine ) but I don't really know how to get that hooked up - if your machine has that working, was curious if you could take a picture of how it's setup - I may need to fabricate a new pin if the one I have is for some other aspect of the game - it doesn't appear that it would work when pushing to open the gate ( like an s-hook sort of ).

Thanks again,
Morgan

#45 9 years ago
Quoted from morgan:

It could have been possible that before it was in 1 player mode, and pressing the start button initiated the reset when pressed when first powering the machine.

The reason i had you unplug it is that people add games with the coin door switches and they get bent up adding games sometimes till it maxs the credit wheel,like i said above it wont hurt to leave it disconnected for now. One less problem to give us trouble. You will see in the manual when you receive it how the switches should be set.

Quoted from morgan:

I guess my next major hurdle is getting the drain switch to do what it is supposed to do - right now balls are not being tracked, never get game over, never go from player one to player two, etc...

In the backbox you have a ball count/player unit combo as seen in your image above [ball unit JPG] it looks to me as not fully reset,look at my IMG 6037 above to see what a full reset looks like. Possible problems with yours could be spring return pressure is not enough,or a binding shaft could do it too.
Have you cleaned and lubed the Bc unit rotating parts?
Usually 2-3 winds of the torsion spring should do it,if you move the pawls away from the gear you should be able to rotate the spider fingers anti-clock wise till it stops then release the spider and it should return (just enough to reset) to open the contacts with peg.
Clean and lube as required.

Also the one finger look slightly bent [the one with the black dot on it]and you should match it to the others that look ok from your image.
The following is the description for a five ball game: Note* if yours is set for three ball then its the same as five but two less short steps.

Now when thats finished you want to start/ reset for a two player game and press the Ball/player units step up coil and watch the spider stop at each tracer and also if the bulbs in the backglass are working you should see ball one for player one,then player two should light with the step up pressed in showing ball one on player two ,then press again you should get player one ball two and press again player two ball two..... and so on till player two ball five is reached ,then the next press should go to game over.
Results?

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Here is an illustration of the unit.

#46 9 years ago
Quoted from morgan:

if you have a chance, on the right side of the game there is a gate that should open and close - there is a small hole and it looks like a pin feeds through that to a relay on the backside. I think I have the pin ( was sitting at the bottom of the machine )

This one?

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If not, load an image of yours to compare.

#47 9 years ago
Quoted from morgan:

Weird some of the lights remain on, but very few when this happens as if there are two voltage sources for the lights in the game?

With the machine unplugged i would look at the fuses and fuse holder for corrosion,if that doesnt do it then i would move on to the jones plugs and give them a good cleaning w/sandpaper or a nylon scuff pad.
Try that and see if it works first.
If not look at the wires soldered to the jones plugs [ IMG-6021 above i removed that non Oem wire] as they can come apart and be held on with a few strands of wire[quite possible the intermittent issue too],which means you will have to resolder an unfrayed section in its place by de-soldering the wire in the pin and cut/strip a new end, then apply solder to the wire end ,heat up the pin and reapply more solder. Always fun....

Also check your tilt relay for clean and continuity as the light circuits pass through it too,there are four normally closed contacts and three normally open on it.
And check/clean the Game over relay,three normally closed,two normally open,and one make and break.
For setting a base line its a good habit to clean those relays when bringing a machine back from sitting a while.

Post edited by Pin-it: additional info

#48 9 years ago

No, it's further up the playfield on the right ( east gate possibly ), I'll get a photo posted in a few of it.

Quoted from Pin-it:

This one?

If not, load an image of yours to compare.

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#49 9 years ago
Quoted from Pin-it:

In the backbox you have a ball count/player unit combo as seen in your image above [ball unit JPG] it looks to me as not fully reset,look at my IMG 6037 above to see what a full reset looks like. Possible problems with yours could be spring return pressure is not enough,or a binding shaft could do it too.
Have you cleaned and lubed the Bc unit rotating parts?
Usually 2-3 winds of the torsion spring should do it,if you move the pawls away from the gear you should be able to rotate the spider fingers anti-clock wise till it stops then release the spider and it should return (just enough to reset) to open the contacts with peg.
Clean and lube as required.
Also the one finger look slightly bent [the one with the black dot on it]and you should match it to the others that look ok from your image.
The following is the description for a five ball game: Note* if yours is set for three ball then its the same as five but two less short steps.
Now when thats finished you want to start/ reset for a two player game and press the Ball/player units step up coil and watch the spider stop at each tracer and also if the bulbs in the backglass are working you should see ball one for player one,then player two should light with the step up pressed in showing ball one on player two ,then press again you should get player one ball two and press again player two ball two..... and so on till player two ball five is reached ,then the next press should go to game over.
Results?

I will try and clean it up a bit, the springs may be shot on this, as one of them is connected half way on the spring itself, so at some point the prior owner possibly needed more pull from the spring and did that, instead of possibly cleaning the whole thing to make it work smoother.

If I move the plunger on the stepup coil by hand, I can get it to go through ball 1 -> 5 for both player 1 and 2, that is how I can get the game to keep score of player 2 and verify that that works. I have yet to see that stepup coil ever fire though, possibly an issue with the game not being fully reset? I don't know, would seem like the switch at the drain would fire that possibly, though it is most likely more complex considering the possibility of getting an extra ball or something like that?

Is it easy to remove the unit from the machine for cleaning? It has a lot of wires soldered onto the board, and there are also the wires on the relays and switches. I don't want to mess anything up trying to take it out. The score reels were easy as I made the adjustment without having to take the reel fully out ( not stress on the still connected wires ). Should I try and dismantle it as it is mounted?

I'll definitely take a look at the arm with the black dot - it seems like mine could use a slight adjustment on the alignment, but it does step ok. The reset coil works when I move the plunger by hand, and the tension on the gear is enough that it rotates back to a home position fully ( hitting a switch with one of the pegs ).

Back to the drain switch, even without a full reset wouldn't that still trigger a variety of actions in the game?

Next post will have some photos and probably a video as well. Need to get a few things done but will probably be later today.

Thanks again,
Morgan

#50 9 years ago
Quoted from morgan:

I will try and clean it up a bit, the springs may be shot on this, as one of them is connected half way on the spring itself, so at some point the prior owner possibly needed more pull from the spring and did that, instead of possibly cleaning the whole thing to make it work smoother.

Just out of curiosity, do you know if it is possibly to acquire replacement springs for these locally ( like at a hardware store ) or even online? I have a box of springs of similar length, but the tension is quite different so I'm sure they wouldn't work.

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