Edit: Due to Mike Kalinowski's recent kamikaze act, this thread is now irrelevant.
Looks like supply of these large displays is dwindling down for good, I can no longer find this display on any pinball parts store. Some say you can't buy one for under $500 now, which is crazy. The EPA is also working to phase out plasma displays. Would it be feasible to produce a replacement LED panel for games that use the jumbo display, as bothersome as the gridlines will be?
Yeah would seem no biggie for some to make a LED.
ColorDMD could easily do that and not have the color. Just Orange.
An LCD panel? Now there's a thought. Would look a lot better without 24 vertical gridlines and 8 horizontal ones.
I just ordered a NEW one for my Batman Forever.
Yeah, that supply is almost gone from what I can tell...
This would have to be done as an LCD. These large displays have a different size and shape dot than the small and medium displays. I don't think there are any pre-existing LED matrixes on the market that match the shape of the small oblong dots of the original. If the image was tranlated to regular dots the image would be stretched out horizontally.
I was wrong, it's the 256x64 display used in Flipper Football that has the skinny oblong dots.
The 192x64 large display used in the Sega's has round dots but at an approx .08" dot spacing where the medium 128x32 is at approx .1" spacing
Ok, any possibility of doing 128x16 displays using 16x16 modules like PinLED does? $285 for their version is awful high.
Quoted from Crash:Hopefully it will be more affordable than $500?
Lol, first we ask for it to be done, then we expect it to be a cheaper price. This is the type of talk that makes Brett think it's not worth doing this at all. Let's just hope that it gets done *at all* for any price so that those of us that have these machines with dead displays dont have to turn them into large paper weights. If the displays are dead and not available anywhere, $500, $750, you'll pay it as that's better than your machine doing nothing.
As far as Color DMD guys. I would think that their existing hardware can handle this situation now. The physical size of their LCD display is plenty big to handle this. It would just be on the software / firmware side to translate the proper display images and output them to the existing hardware. Could probably jumper it into any color also.
.
Quoted from Crash:Ok, any possibility of doing 128x16 displays using 16x16 modules like PinLED does? $285 for their version is awful high.
unlike the medium and large DMD's, the small DMD board has the processor and Roms and other hardware on it. It is the equivalent of the display board and the driver board combined into 1. This is the #1 reason why this board will be more expensive to reproduce than the other boards.
Quoted from Crash:MAD still carries them. But dang would I hate to order from him...
Yea Whats this guys deal? i ordered some star wars plastics(DE) and they where super transparent, looked really bad compared to an original. I let him know and he called and was really rude. I just wanted to try and help him get a better product.
Quoted from Iamdarras:Yea Whats this guys deal? i ordered some Star Wars plastics(DE) and they where super transparent, looked really bad compared to an original. I let him know and he called and was really rude. I just wanted to try and help him get a better product.
You should try a solid white water slide on the back of those plastics. Might help with the transparency and make them look much better. That's if you can't get any resolve from him. Might make them closer to the originals and not look so out of place.
Quoted from CaptainNeo:You should try a solid White Water slide on the back of those plastics. Might help with the transparency and make them look much better. That's if you can't get any resolve from him. Might make them closer to the originals and not look so out of place.
Thanks you for the advice...
Don't 99% of the failures consist of the display just dying? Really? That's fun to troubleshoot with most everything being surface mounted components sealed behind a piece of glass you will never be able to remove. Bravo Sega!
Quoted from Crash:Don't 99% of the failures consist of the display just dying? Really? That's fun to troubleshoot with most everything being surface mounted components sealed behind a piece of glass you will never be able to remove. Bravo Sega!
I actually fixed a large one recently. The screen was very scrambled. The large display generates it's own High Voltage using just the 5V supply. Checked these and 1 or more was off. Was able to replace a large cap that was bulging and that fixed it. Had to remove and replace it from the component side of the board as the back is covered by the glass.
Have you ever had ones that are just dead? One of mine doesn't work at all. I was told it was cutting out in the past on location and just died one day. The game has the 5v bypass mod. I would hate to throw away a $500 paperweight if there is ANY chance at all I could get it fixed. I don't care if it costs $150 in repairs, it's better than buying a new one.
I'm thinking about hooking it back up (if I didn't throw it away, I may have already) and checking for some voltages.
if you have a plasma (lighting globe) you can put it next to the glass and if the glass is still good it should light up a little. This works well with the old 6 and 7 digit display glass and with the small and medium DMD's, have not tried it with the large dmd.
I purchased a small battery operated one from Ebay and it doesn't produce enough current to light up the dmd's but will light up the smaller glasses.
just put new batteries in it and tested it out on the super jumbo display, 256*64,and while it didn't light the dots it did light the very edges of the display.
We are thinking in making a LED version of the 192 x 64 DMD, it depends on how many are interrested. A normal LED dmd with segment-lines inblue, red or orange (price may be more for blue).
Just a limited run of 100 pieces i think.... for a price under 400 dollar for red/orange.
if people are interrested let me know.
Post edited by XNIF : pricing
Definitely interested. Mad Mike isn't my first choice. kbliznick do you know what to look for? Have you managed to repair one that doesn't work at all? What would cause it to blank out on location and simply stop working? I swapped it with another panel in the same game and it fired right up. Getting strong 5v at the connector. Sounds like a chip issue and if it's a chip, off to the garbage.
Does anyone have a schematic of the display PCB? I just looked at the data sheet (http://www.vishay.com/docs/37012/192g064.pdf) and the specs say the 12v line shouldn't exceed 15v. Yet the 2 games read 18v for me and the DMD on the one currently on route is just fine. Would that have something to do with it? Or does that drop under load?
Edit: I see Coin Op Cauldron repairs the "DMD controller." Are they referring to the DMD driver board or the actual display panel?
Quoted from XNIF:We are thinking in making a LED version of the 192 x 64 DMD, it depends on how many are interrested. A normal LED dmd with segment-lines inblue, red or orange (price may be more for blue).
Just a limited run of 100 pieces i think.... for a price under 400 dollar for red/orange.
if people are interrested let me know.
Post edited by XNIF : pricing
I'll take a red one or even an orange one with red filter. A green one for my batman would be great. I bet some of the distributors would buy a few. Speaking of green could the yellowish green be filtered to be more of a deep green? Do you plan to make any filters?
Quoted from markmon:I'll take a red one or even an orange one with red filter. A green one for my batman would be great. I bet some of the distributors would buy a few. Speaking of green could the yellowish green be filtered to be more of a deep green? Do you plan to make any filters?
Talking about large dmds as if they were skittles.
Quoted from XNIF:We are thinking in making a LED version of the 192 x 64 DMD, it depends on how many are interrested. A normal LED dmd with segment-lines inblue, red or orange (price may be more for blue).
Just a limited run of 100 pieces i think.... for a price under 400 dollar for red/orange.
if people are interrested let me know.
Post edited by XNIF : pricing
Interested! Yeah, green would be great for my BF. Although there's so much freaking color in it nothing would look awful... but green would really pop!
We are currently in design mode for the 128 x 32 at the moment that will be REPAIRABLE should a pixel die and they will NOT be built using the industry standard 'LED blocks' that others use.
Ours will be assembled from seperate purpose made LEDs in their own injection moulded plastic frame and there will be no visable grid lines.
After production starts on these it is our intention to progress to the 192 x 64.
I believe 128 x 32 product should be available mid 2013 with 192 x 64 closer to Christmas.
This is all VERY expensive but we believe it is worth the investment for the longer term. Pricing has to be determined yet but they certainly will be comparable to others on the market with the larger displays costing about 30% more.
How would using individual LEDs be economically viable at all? I still love the idea, the grid lines are the #1 reason why I am not interested in the current LED offerings. Also more power to ya going all the way to 192x64! Sounds exciting! 
Quoted from Crash:How would using individual LEDs be economically viable at all? I still love the idea, the grid lines are the #1 reason why I am not interested in the current LED offerings. Also more power to ya going all the way to 192x64! Sounds exciting!
I have my own China office with Chinese staff and I already do business supplying and installing the huge outdoor LED advertising screens you see all over the place, They are ALL made using individual LEDs. The individual LED semiconductors will actually be custom made for me as will the plastic mounting frame. We are still 6 to 8 months away from having product.
I have started a thread about this project on Aussie Arcade with pictures if anyone is interested:
That's great! This is indeed very big news! I like the way the Vishay LED replacement displays look but they want nearly $500 for a standard sized one, being all one block. They say this because 1 in 5 panels get rejected due to the LEDs being on all one block, how wasteful! I'm also liking the base white display idea with color filters. How would you remove the LEDs if one goes out, will they just pop out? For once in pinball history we might actually get a perfect DMD here! 
I have put a couple of videos up on that thread in Australia showing the assembly of an outdoor RGB LED screen module. My displays will be built on the same machines.
The LEDs are inserted into the board, then flow soldered - a plastic frame is then fitted over the LEDs and screwed in place - this keeps them all in exact rows and will give a nice black finish.
To replace a LED - remove the screws holding the plastic frame and de-solder the dud one. We will also offer an exchange service after the 12 months warranty for probably about $99.
All pricing and delivery times are still up in the air. I have been working on this project for more than a year so far but it's getting very close now. There are quite a lot of tooling costs for this project, even at China prices!
I love you can replace just one LED. When we buy one are you going sell it with a couple spare LED’s
That way if well need to replace a bad LED it would match the rest of them.
Will you have a 5Volt or 12 volt version so we can use these in Virtual pinball machines.
Quoted from pinballlooking:I love you can replace just one LED. When we buy one are you going sell it with a couple spare LED’s
That way if well need to replace a bad LED it would match the rest of them.
Will you have a 5Volt or 12 volt version so we can use these in Virtual pinball machines.
At this stage they are designed for 5V - more details on that later BUT they will not use the existing 5V rail in the machine and don't need any of the high voltages either. Hadn't thought about spare LEDs, but not a bad idea???
what are the chances of the smaller 128 x16 dmd's used in early data east games being made? Those have less of the grid problem, since the grid blocks are usually 16 pixels tall, but you still see them I think. Those are not as hard to find as the huge ones from sega, but I just saw a used one go on ebay for $300, and in that price range I'd just assume get a new LED one if the grid lines weren't a problem.
Though I don't know if there is something inherently different about those displays that make it not economically feasible, but I figure there have to be as many of those pins around as there are ones with the HUGE DMDs.
Quoted from Sjsilver:what are the chances of the smaller 128 x16 dmd's used in early data east games being made? Those have less of the grid problem, since the grid blocks are usually 16 pixels tall, but you still see them I think. Those are not as hard to find as the huge ones from sega, but I just saw a used one go on ebay for $300, and in that price range I'd just assume get a new LED one if the grid lines weren't a problem.
Though I don't know if there is something inherently different about those displays that make it not economically feasible, but I figure there have to be as many of those pins around as there are ones with the HUGE DMDs.
As soon as we have finished the engineering prep. for the 128 x 32 we will be working on both the 192 x 64 AND the 128 x 16 but don't expect to see them until VERY late in the year - more likely early next year.
Our priority now is to have finished 128 x 32 ready to ship before Christmas this year.
Quoted from Homepin:At this stage they are designed for 5V -
Excellent good chance they will work with virtual pinball.
Make sure they work with Russ board as you move along.
http://www.pindmd.com/default.php
Russ is easy to work with.
I know if I get a dasplay and had an extra LED and one went out. I would not send it in for warranty I would just fix it and move along.
Quoted from Homepin:At this stage they are designed for 5V - more details on that later BUT they will not use the existing 5V rail in the machine and don't need any of the high voltages either.
Well since wireless power hasn't quite caught on yet, I'm guessing you must be plugging an external supply into the service outlet.
Regardless of what you are doing, I do applaud anyone's efforts to not add to the already strained and overworked pinball power supply system. Too much of that stuff going around already.
Tony
I'd love to get a Green one for my BF, but only if they are capable of somewhere near the shade spectrum that the Gas ones have. Otherwise the BF animations will look like ass. Similar to the way some of the video footage looks in sterns when you try to put LED displays where it was ment for gas. Pixilated and horrible. Shade spectrum is number 1 issue right now with LED displays. If you can pull it off, excellent. I'll buy.
Anyone have a less-than-perfect one they'd let go of cheapish?
Fading, dead lines, whatever...but good enough to see what's going on to play and test the machine with?
Right now I have nothing there, and would be nice to have something while waiting for more modern replacements, and to test to make sure everything but the DMD is there...and wont fry a good one. (I bought a Baywatch with missing DMD).
Quoted from 1thomas:Anyone have a less-than-perfect one they'd let go of cheapish?
Fading, dead lines, whatever...but good enough to see what's going on to play and test the machine with?
Right now I have nothing there, and would be nice to have something while waiting for more modern replacements, and to test to make sure everything but the DMD is there...and wont fry a good one. (I bought a Baywatch with missing DMD).
Maybe have a scout around for a "Cut the Cheese" (yes, VERY dodgy name) a SEGA redemption machine.
If you can find one maybe part it out as it has a large display in it as well as a SEGA pinball board set so it might be worth paying a bit for it as there will be lots of bits to sell off.....just a thought?
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/x-pin-please-make-large-192x64-dmds and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.
Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.
Las Vegas, NV
Amsterdam
Unknown City
Cessnock