(Topic ID: 81909)

WPT - Light matrix issue

By Deez

10 years ago


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  • 12 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 years ago by SteveP3
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#1 10 years ago

I'm working on a WPT that I just picked up with a strange light matrix issue. There are a few lights that are all contained on row 10 of the matrix that get really bright during gameplay during certain light sequencing. The lights on that row also trigger at various times during the game married to other lights but don't appear to be directly triggered by the other light when I go thru the single light test. I suspect that it might be a board problem since I've traced the problem row lines on the harness and didn't find any issues, backwards blow diodes, shorts etc.

One weird issue is that when I put the game in test mode and just test each row, row 10 will stay of for every row, but when I hit row 10, it activates row 9 in test mode. Row 10 will not activate row 9 during test mode though.

Unfortunately I don't own another game or have access to a stern game that uses these particular rows to make sure. I tried it in my buddies Metallica but realize that it uses LED boards so the test was inconclusive. Anyone have any advice on where to check. I can write up the matrix in more detail and scan it in if that would help because there are some odd combinations happening when doing the single light tests.

#2 10 years ago

I'd guess it's a resistor problem, or perhaps two rows are shorted and providing more current than they usually get.

I wanted this game, just poor timing.

#3 10 years ago
Quoted from Deez:

One weird issue is that when I put the game in test mode and just test each row, row 10 will stay of for every row, but when I hit row 10, it activates row 9 in test mode. Row 10 will not activate row 9 during test mode though.

I tried to understand this, but the second part sounds like the opposite of the first, despite the same wording.

Can you say this again?

I suspect you have a locked on transistor that is causing your problem.

#4 10 years ago

I agree with Steve, the two descriptions appear to be contradictory.

If I'm reading you correctly, check the voltage for each of the columns at the board connector. The signal is pulsed and I would suspect that column 10 may be staying high.

#5 10 years ago

Ok, I typed this earlier at work and was trying to do it from memory so I wasn't very concise. So here's the issue. The four lights at the bottom of the playfield - Play the button - Know your Outs - spot the tell - change gears all glow extra bright during game play. So when I run the matrix thru the light test with the columns everything lights correctly in its respective row. The four lights I mentioned above still glow extra bright when their column is active.

When I run thru the row test, Row 10 is active the entire time almost as if the transistor is shorted on.

Here is where it gets really odd and confuses me, when I run the single light test it doesn't appear to have a pattern in which lights activate other lights. The only real consistent clue is that everytime you activate a single light in column 3 regardless of the row, it lights the corresponding light from row 10. I'm going to post a picture of the lights that activate together when doing the single light test. Basically I went thru light by light and if a light in the same row activated I highlighted it. So any light that is highlighted in the same row mean both of them were activated when cycling thru the single light test.

#6 10 years ago

tmp_20140224_200229-964183359.jpgtmp_20140224_200229-964183359.jpg

#7 10 years ago

I dunno guy, could it be a bad diode on one of the lamps?

My guess is that there is a pattern, you just haven't spotted it yet.

Seems like row 3 and 10 are connected somehow. Maybe disconnect a lamp on row 3 and give the lamp test a shot? Keep repeating until you isolate the issue? I'm not sure I get the issue, maybe someone else can chime in if this is worth your time.

Quoted from Deez:

when I run the single light test it doesn't appear to have a pattern in which lights activate other lights.

#8 10 years ago

So I pulled the row connector off the board and am measuring a diode drop of 1.3v from ground to the pins on the harness. Would this signify that I have a ground short on my row light matrix? It has the same drop on every single pin that has a wire.

#9 10 years ago

How do the blue highlighted lamps and circled lamps correlate? It sounds like row 10 is shorted on from what you're saying. You may want to take a sheet of paper and make some notes as to specifically what happens when you go through a column test / row test / single lamp test. It may help you come to some logical conclusions. I had a hard time seeing exactly the problem based on the picture of the matrix because I couldn't decipher what was happening at what point.

#10 10 years ago

Ok I can do that. Basically I was trying to see if there was some sort of clear pattern. The circled lights were when I was running the row tests and I was checking off to make sure that row 9 and 10 were both activated at the same time. The blue highlighted lights were when I was testing the single lamps. So when one pair was activated, left VUK lock was also activated.

I pulled the row and the column connectors and tested each one against the other and I'm getting a proper diode drop except on a few that have LEDs in them which was higher, but I'm attributing that to the LEDs. I'm also not seeing any shorts when I measure each row pin to ground and each row pin to each other row pin. I performed the same test with the columns measuring to ground and then to each other row pin and didn't see any shorts. It turns out when I saw the 1.3v drop earlier I still had the column plug on the board so I was seeing a diode drop from the drivers.

If I had a short in my light matrix, wouldn't it show up when I measured it against ground and all other wires in the matrix?

I'm starting to think this is a logic error on the board. Unfortunately I don't have another machine that has as many lights as this game to verify.

#11 10 years ago

On a side note. This is really driving me nuts. I rarely find a problem I can't fix and I just don't see the pattern with this one. I might have to step back and diagram it out better and then I'll see it.

#12 10 years ago
Quoted from Deez:

On a side note. This is really driving me nuts. I rarely find a problem I can't fix and I just don't see the pattern with this one. I might have to step back and diagram it out better and then I'll see it.

that's what I'm thinking. If you make a list of exactly what is happening during the tests, it will help you figure out a pattern. also make note of what lights don't light properly during testing (if applicable) and then you can check them to see if the bulbs are toast; this will make things a bit more clear.

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