In addition to the above, the wow factor and fun factor are both off the charts for me. I know that is personal and subjective, but it describes how I feel about the game.

I agree The game is such a blast to play and I've never had this much fun playing a pin before. At the Michigan Pinball Expo this year JJP had 3 games on site and there were lines for all them throughout the event. The game seems to be attracting experienced players and new ones. The theme is timeless and can be enjoyed by anyone. The earnings this game is bringing in at some locations is very impressive as well.

The game to me just feels like a deep complex pin from the era of MM, MB, TZ and TAF but with updated tech and improvements. I also like that JJP has added a lot of nice extras to a game that cost $7500 such as including a topper, shaker, invisiglass, high quality powder coated interior / exterior parts and the sweet clear coated wood apron. JJP has done a fantastic job with WOZ and I can't wait to see what else is in store for The Hobbit and anything else they come out with.

I would say yes to everything you have said above, but....Do you think it will sell as many games as TAF did? I hope it does.

No, pinball is just not as big as it used to be. It is recovering from its near death experience, but certainly is not at an all time high of popularity - and may never be again. But as long has it is healthy and growing, that does not bother me.

_{Post edited by txstargazer3 : Typo}

True that.

One thing that TAF did well, was music, call outs, and a lot of humor. WOZ hasn't hit prime time in that area, but it has the potential to get there. I'd say TAF has it beat for that. WOZ has a lot more toys akin to TZ, and has much deeper code. If the voice call outs and music gets sorted out in WOZ it could meet it in that area. From a technical standpoint WOZ has a better sound system, however the polish on the actual voices and humor doesn't match Adams. I find some of the voice call outs on WOZ annoying and grating. On TAF it compliments the game. I just hope that JJP can bring it home. I also wish Chris was still at JJP. I'm worried now that he's gone, it won't get polished. Time will tell. I'm hopeful it will get polished.

I can't even find games on location anymore. It's sad but how do you justify spending $4500 on a Pro and then trying to recover your investment?

lol

I don't see it. TAF is fun to play and WOZ is... WOZ. I know, thumbs down are coming for that one.

"poll: Is Wizard of Oz the official Addams Family of the 21st Century?"

I voted No Way simply due to the use of the word "official." Words have meanings.

"relating to an authority or public body and its duties, actions, and responsibilities."

Not sure I can answer your questions, but he was under contract to do the music on WOZ, and has gone. Someone else is doing the music for The Hobbit. Can't remember who now, maybe someone else can pipe up. It's on the JJP website.

I don't see anyone else listed as now doing music for JJP games on the site. Chris is still referenced on the site as doing the music for WOZ. Is it possible they have him back for TH?

btw, I gave you a thumbs down as a joke. Seems Jimmy is trying to undo a perceived slight. LOL.

2 steps from hell is doing the music for hobbit.

Thanks Alex! I can't believe I forgot about that. Very cool. I remember the day I heard the news and went and downloaded one of their albums. I'm sure they are going to create some very cool tracks.

One of the coolest things in pinball is how the flippers click with the music. I will be disappointed if the flippers do not click with a scene or music when the code is finished.

Yeah I don't think we can all agree on that...

I want to like WOZ but I just don't. In fact it's downright annoying. The playfield has too many design missteps for me to even go into all of them. The sound is obnoxious. Only the rules can save it for me, but the direction they're going so far doesn't leave me with a lot of hope. Shoot rollovers for multi? Really? What's it's gonna be on Hobbit? Collect slingshot hits?

Played it in a tourney last weekend and had one shot to light multi on ball 3. I get my last Tin Man shot right after the plunge, then it drains down the left side during my ball saver. Instead of giving me the ball back, it gives me No Place Like Home. WHAT??

Between the gameplay and the rules I just cannot put a buck in that game. Hell no.

No chance it will ever be as good as TAF...code or not...the layout just ain't there IMO...

1 ramp

TAF is the easiest game I have ever owned, I have been to Wiz mode on it more times than every other game I've owned combined.

I found TAF fairly easy to WIZ mode after owning it for awhile too, it was still fun though. I still enjoyed actually playing the modes and trying to score well in them, instead of just concentrating on getting to the wiz mode...

Easiest games I've ever owned so far are Swords of Fury & Revenge from Mars...

When WOZ sells in excess of TAF numbers then yea, maybe.

(+ 20,000 games that is)

Yes very fun game I wish I still had mine

The main problem with WOZ for me is the theme. TAF had the movie come out the year before.
The Hobbit will not have that "problem" and i can't wait to see it come out.

Anyway we can't make this judgement so early. The game came out a few months a go!

it is?

TAF in its day was in every other tavern and every arcade/amusement center. Taverns still exist but without pinball. Most arcade amusement centers are gone. That being said, non-pinheads that come to my place for the first time go right to TAF because they remember playing it and in many cases playing it a lot. I don't think WOZ will sell 20,000 units because there aren't enough businesses that can/will buy it. If this was 1992 , then yeah , I think it could sell 20,000....but it's not. I sure would like to be wrong though. It's a giant leap forward in many ways.

I just don't see it (voted "No Way!").

I did enjoy playing WoZ when I tried it though.

Personally, I like the use of magnets in both games. WoZ Witch magnet throws the ball a in totally different direction.
I would not mind at all having TAF in my collection. But since a few of my close friends have them..I not need to.. We have played it so many times..Still a top ten pin to me.

With that being said... there is something that annoys me about TAF music... just like WoZ music annoys some people...I don't know why but it goes right through me... That kind of kills it for me a bit.

Yes WoZ music can get to you after a while as well... But theres still more to do and with every update the repetitive callouts will blend in with other elements.

The NO Place Like Home to me is genius...instead if just losing your ball..you get a way to save it and return to your game..the same thing for TOTO. This is what makes WoZ unique in my opinion. KUDOS to Jack or KEEFER or whomever thought of that. Its one of my favorite things about WOZ.

I can't understand why anyone would not like or appreciate that someone thought about implementing this into the game.

Hey.. but to each is own..

If the code gets so good, that the game becomes in such high demand, and makes them do a second run like Addams Family, who knows.
Only time will tell.

They might just continue the first run. They'll be making WOZ standards for quite a while after the LEs are done. Especially if the earnings are good....

The TV series is remembered by many and was pretty funny.

TAF pulled off some amazing numbers. That can never happen again. The world has moved away from pinball.

Numbers aside, Thing Flips, The (hidden) Power Magnets, Ball in Hand (Thing)Trick, and the Bookshelf were all such imaginative WOW factors that were SO good they are still used today (including in WOZ).

WOZ may end up being great when its done, but I just don't think it's fair to put it up against Addams yet. TSPP and TZ are better comparisons, for now. Two good (great?) games that never came close to the mass public appeal of Addams.

No.... Adams family is amazing. I just played it last weekend in a bar (Cafe De Bommel, Breda, if anyone is interested), it was mint, as far as i could see.

It has been years that i played that pin, and the second i start, its fun. The lay out, call outs, theme, sounds, music... on TAF everything is like it should be. Except a ball saver on some moments. (something not all would agree on)

Woz, i dont like the theme, i dont like the lay out, and i dont like the toys/mini playfields.

But that is all a mather of personal taste.

Cause i do see similarities compared to adams family. And that is that WOZ is for sure next gen. Like adams family back then, this is the new way of pinball.

Thats why i have great hope for the hobbit. Cause i think that pin can attack the adams family in quality and fun. And thats what it is all about.

And if its not the hobbit it can be the next pin. With these lcd, build quality and fabulous lookings they will hit a fun lay out sooner or later. And then there is no looking back anymore.

I have WOZ and am keeping it. Code and modes have saved it from being sold. I am picking up a nice TAF tonight and it will be my 3rd TAF. Both amazing games and both the start of newer pinball design.
I absolutely cannot see why any pinhead would not at least like TAF. It has it all!

Some good points, but the difference I see is that TaF is fun to play. WoZ was not very fun for me at all.

The shots are just not there.

The WoZ layout just does not play fun at all for me. In fact, was so disappointed I sold my pre-order. Everything else is great, but the layout and feel of the shots is just not up to par.

I felt just the opposite. When I played the WOZ I saw in Vegas, I drained three balls immediately because it was so hard to play...and then I realized that it was EXACTLY the machine I had been waiting to buy. Now, with practice, my shots are more precise, I can stack multiballs and run up the score, and I've found that to be the third greatest feeling in the world. (See if you can figure out the first two!). It's a tough game - I still can't master the shot through the haunted forest to the loop to complete HOADC. That's a total b*tch of a shot. But when you play one enough and get better at it, it becomes so addictive that you tend to think of it for a good part of the day. TAF is a great game to be sure, but not so challenging. And perhaps that's why a large segment of the general population fell in love with that game - it was something you could pump some quarters into, and enjoy immediately with the feeling that you had mastered something quickly. WOZ takes time and patience, but the payoff is WONDERFUL!

WOZ is amazing so far. It'll never be a TAF because it's a different time, and players were able to slowly digest WOZ (and play it in incomplete form) over a few years time, which flattens the excitement. If WOZ had just been unleashed in one fell swoop, players would be convulsing on the floor and flopping around like a fish when they first saw it, guaranteed.

The shots are AWESOME.

Challenging shots and easy shots. Risky shots and safe shots. Flowing shots and target shooting. Just a great mixture!

The upper playfields are challenging but not impossible. When you get in a double-shot flow in Twister it seems you can keep it going forever, but that's one attempt in ten.

The witch's castle is difficult, also, and the Search and door shots are needed, because spelling rescue with the revolving target flashing is tough to predict. Also when you drain, the winkie guards are back, so you have to survive enough dead drop hits up the middle to re-enter the castle. The Dorothy Hurry-up shot (left inlane to right orbit) is something you'll want to take advantage of, to quickly stage the Capture Dorothy ball behind the castle door.

I was surprised by how easy and intuitive the left loop and right orbit shots are. You can nail them off the Hurry-ups with ease. The loop through the Haunted Forest looks tough, but it's perfect. Much more intuitive and easier than the Beast shot, and on par with some of the Lawlor shots through the jets. The difference is the targets (Winged Monkey, etc) you can also hit with a left loop miss, and often falling back into the Crystal Ball shot for a chance at a left flipper hurry-up.

The Crystall Ball spinner shot is also a pleasant surprise. Lighting the BALL targets is dangerous, because of the left outlane angle, and don't expect TNPLH to save you (a tough ball save game). But of course the reward is there. Lights ON or Lights OFF 2x scoring (which have their own yin-yang of being 2-ball 2x scoring, but you are driving blind with no inserts to help you)! The ball is a nicely placed spinner shot to a saucer vuk, and probably one of the coolest innovations in a long time. The player's own personal monitor- the Crystal Ball. I love it because spectators/competitors cannot see what's going on in there, only the player can. Hopefully they make it even more interactive down the road. I like how it's implemented so far. You can glance at it to see how much time you have left in TOTO for example, or you can ignore it and it's just a round glow. It walks the perfect line between putting a monitor on the playfield yet being completely unobtrusive.

The Wizard shot is an easy hurry-up shot also, and the rebound to it goes right to the left flipper and if you drop catch it, then it'll often roll up to the inlane switch for another Hurry-up. A miss can often send you to TOTO though, so it's not without risk.

The Rainbow targets are not difficult to hit, but it's like the easy shot in billiards. You can hit it easily enough, but what's your leave? You have to consider the rebound and which target from which flipper gives you the safest controlled rebound. The I-N-B shot-bounced to the Witch is a nice combo. Get the letters you need (or the Rainbow hurry-up) AND start/finish a Witch hurry-up in one shot. Nice. When you need the R-A as you last letters, you need to nick them on the way to Munchkinland, or get them off a Witch shot rebound from the upper right flipper.

And speaking of the upper right flipper... that Collect shot is TOUGH to do on command. I hit it by accident occasionally, but when I try the precision of shooting it from the left flipper and releasing the upper right at the perfectly precise time to knock it back in the shooter lane for a Collect, it's extremely tough, not to mention a dangerous miss. Kef should make that Collect shot potential build-up very high, to equal the risk/reward. You can't collect it off a short plunge after a lock, either, cause I tried of course, haha.

The toughest shot in the game, besides Collect, is the target through the Haunted Forest! Now that's a tricky upper flipper shot because of how low the shot is on an upper flipper, and like pretty much all Haunted Forest activity, dangerous. The lower tree loves to kick you right into TOTO.

And of course the character rollovers! I love shooting rollovers! If you are attempting to qualify Twister, then you may look up and have Scarecrow nearly complete and Lion already completed. But Tinman is tougher, because of the Haunted Forest. Trying to nail those on command during EC multiball is very challenging, but also often happen by chance.

So far Fireball Frenzy is the best mode, and best shooter's experience. Avoiding the Fire shot and nailing the Cool shot to build value is a genius challenge that is very lucrative! It's also the toughest to follow during 2x multis, because you're just guessing where the Cool shot is. But the ball control and precise shooting FF requires, and rewards, is what pinball is all about for me. These are the type of modes which make games great and not grow old!

The shots are definitely there. If you're someone who has played a prototype at a show in the past year or so, and think you've seen the game and know it. Think again. Your weak-flippered, insert show on loop, machine you played with nothing going on has now been tweaked and refined.

There are some improvements which I hope are still to come (like adjustable GI lighting, because it's too dim right now), but after seeing it at this stage, I am confident in the JJP team improvements to come.

I am SO glad the guy who was going to buy my pre-order flaked out on me. THANK YOU, FLAKER! I heart you so much! I had a moment of weakness where it looked like I'd never get my machine, and there were standards to purchase ahead of pre-orders, so I figured I'd buy a standard if I liked it after playing it. Thankfully, that didn't happen.

I love it. It's a genius product which really looks and feels new and solid. I like the list of things it shares with TAF, and while a few are a stretch and there will never be another TAF, I can say that WOZ is a step forward in pinball, and raises the bar! They definitely have that in common. Oh, and you'll be humming the music long after you walk away from WOZ, just like with TAF, so they share that too.

LOL Damn I didn't realize I typed all that. Too much coffee maybe? I just typed it all out and hit enter and BOOM a novel. Sorry, but it's there to read if you'd like.

Au contraire, I appreciate the well thought out enthusiasm! Fires me up since I should be getting my WOZLE this month!

Great post Mechslave. No need to apologize; I read it twice!

I think WOZ *may* be the new TAF from a general pinball perspective, and may in fact be intended to be. Why? Forget the specific comparisons of displays, movie themes, specific production numbers, etc. The points I'd highlight from the OP would be: bringing new people into the hobby, and having bigger earnings, which could lead to a *larger* production run than contemporary titles. I'm just guessing, but a run of 5,000+ WOZ games would probably constitute a major success in today's market.

TAF used the new DMD display (not the first pin to do so, but an early one), deeper mode-based strategy, and a fun theme to get more people playing pinball. TAF sold in record numbers and had great earnings.

WOZ has the new LCD, which also helps players 'get' the deeper rules and progress, along with the general 'wow' factor. (I still wouldn't rule out some sort of 'beginner' game option in a future software release.) Face it, DMD pins look pretty shabby compared to the WOZ LCD to the casual observer. If WOZ earns well on location, it will lead to more orders and more new people playing pinball. That is what will drive the industry, not the insular Pinside "collector" community.

And FWIW, the real target market for WOZ is the the general public itself, not just existing pinball hobbyists. The public at large is where the growth opportunity is. And they have not seen it before; many will become aware of it for the very first time when they spot the LCD in some location somewhere.... So it will certainly have that WOW factor for most of the general audience. If it gets a lot of new people into playing pinball, and is profitable for operators (as early reports suggest),then I think WOZ may indeed be the new TAF.

Thx for the extended write-up! My WOZ arrives tomorrow, so this will be a good heads-up as to what is going on....

Congratulations StevenP, cool that you have a Saturday delivery. It doesn't get much better than that. Looking forward to getting your first impressions once you can tear yourself away from the game for a few minutes.

If you're talking about innovation, I dunno, maybe? Not sure there's much in the way of playfield innovation on WOZ, which for me is more important than a display I can't see while I'm playing. If you're talking about production numbers, seems pretty unlikely. Forget Addam's family. We're not going to see a pin hit those numbers any time soon. How about aiming for LOTR? We don't typically know exact numbers for Stern, but the estimates are ~5100 + another 500(ish) for the LE. WOZ currently has ~ 2000 numbered editions planned (standard / LE). That's still a big leap to get to 5600.

I think folks are quick to forget that TSPP and LOTR where relatively big games for the post Williams / Bally era. There were multiple runs of both. The same is true of AC/DC, and that's multiple production runs for the premium, though I don't have any idea of the numbers.

Anyhow, let's see JJ hit those numbers first before we start talking nonsense about WOZ being the next Addams for innovation / production numbers / popularity or otherwise. There's about zero chance WOZ will meet or exceed Addams on any of those criteria. Different time. Different expectations.

As far as WOZ somehow being the gateway drug for a new generation of pinball players in the general public, I don't know. That's banking a lot on people thinking an LCD display is pretty nifty because otherwise, to a non-pinhead, it's just another pinball machine with blinky lights and flippers with some sparkly red shoes (which just screams "come play" me to your average young male in a bar).

I can appreciate the enthusiasm for a new game and new vendor, but WOZ is not so much different from everything that Stern (or Bally / Williams before them) has built when it comes to the average user. It's a big leap from where we are to where Addam's went.

Own both .....TAF is what brought back the memories, created a much needed hobby for me ( work all the time) and is irreplaceable. Can't really compare it to any other machine, as it's " home base" for me.
Since pursuing this hobby ( and several pins added) I can absolutely say that WOZ is in a league of its own. This thing continues to blow me away. Nothing I've ever played approaches it from an innovative or pure joy of playing perspective. Addictive would be an understatement. I suspect I'm not alone, and time will tell, #'s and ratings wise.
This is a different era, and I'm just grateful that a Machine like WOZ can pull my Son off of the damn Video Games for a bit. A major feat, given the technology out there today.I could not be more satisfied w the machine, support, and obvious passion that has gone into creating this game.
So in the end...the "new" TAF....nope, there's only one. However, the modern era groundbreaker? There's only one of those too.....and it IS WOZ!!!!

Disclaimer ( borrowed from Lloyd)- this is strictly my opinion, which ultimately would only matter to me....mark

Well said Mark. I've still got a few months to wait.

Txstargazer3....thanks.....the wait will be worth it......mark