To me, all of my pins are keepers, except for CV. The last pin to go would be my Scared Stiff.

Keepers: TC TZ, TAFG and MM.
Found new owners for: LOTR and TSPP

That's what he said.

It's got one drop target!

I like your euphemism, LITZ!

I hate to be snarky (?) but i think the term overrated is way overused in this hobby for something as subjective as pinball preferences. It implies that your opinion is correct and all the others are wrong. Can't we all just accept different tastes without having a ten threads a week bashing particular machines?

Yep, it is all PINBALL after all! I am glad other ppl have collections here locally that are not a mirror image of mine.... Because of this fact and meeting other Pinsiders in the past few months I have played excellent examples of IJ, SM, LOTR LE, KISS, PoB, Covette, HSII, Taxi, Stargate, Atlantis, Diner, Earthshaker, Cyclone, Whirlwind, MB, SS, EATPM, and Jokerz.

Just because I would not want to own any of the above titles does not mean I don't mind playing ones that have been modded, restored, shopped and playing 100% I am really looking forward to Abscountry2 getting his douche WOZLE (sorry could not help myself) in May and playing a few games on NGG, and TS which is one of the pins he recently acquired.

So yes I agree the term overrated is waaay overrated.

My Keepers - SM, Tron, LOTR, JP, JM

Overrated - TF-LE

My keeper: T2. My favorite game.
Overrated: JM. Couldn't make myself like it. Maybe it was just the theme. Wasn't a big fan of the glove toy either. With more time I might like it but it only stayed in my collection for a couple weeks.

Yeah that thing is a mess.

Pinball is personal. What one player likes another hates.

But I think this post is about overrated and underated pins

so here's my 2 cents.

Party Zone is an Under rated pin. I hated it at first but now it's a keeper with TZ and AFM and IJ

I also agree with some others here that MM is overrated. Don't get me wrong it's a great pin and I played the hell out of it but it wasn't worth the $$ so I sold it and kept AFM as I liked that a little better. I didn't feel I needed both.

Well I cannot really pick a kepper, but overated? Hmm so many to chose from.

MM? Yes it is good, but its not 8k good. Totan and Tom? Both are very pretty but neither are great players. CC? yeah it was the last traditional b/w, but it software was never finished. Champion Pub? It is a fun game for a large collection, but man it gets boring fast.

Ha! As someone who loves switching out pins and trying something new, gotta agree with you here!

It seems that 90% of the time when someone calls MM "overrated" it is based on the price that the pin commands. I think it is one thing to say that a pin isn't worth the price that it commands, and quite another to say that it is overrated.

My understanding of the way the term overrated is being used here is to indicate that it is rated higher than it should be *regardless of price*.

And using that standard, there is no way MM is overrated in my opinion.

I rate pins on what they cost. there are a lot of cheap machines I prefer over expensive machines.

So if I like fish tales (1600ish machine) over Champion Pub (sold mine for 3200) I would say Champion Pub is over rated.

Is MM good? Yes. Is it better than LOTR? TSPP? TZ? no, but it costs twice as much. The funny thing is that I have had several people who have been in the hobby longer buy games off me. They always say the same thing I like Shadow over MM. Most of them also admit they sold their MM's when it hit 6-8k, because it wasn't worth it.

I will also say that last year at ohio I put one game on it. I came to the same conclusion, its fun, but there are just too many other titles I find to be better.

Can't agree 100% there. I think it's part of the equation. I don't own a BBB...but its it overrated? How can it not be? Plus 10K, I mean wow. I've played one before and I wasn't that impressed. Even if it was 30 on the Top100, I would still have to say it's overrated. Just my opinion.

This is supposed to be about pins you have actually owned.

Yes I know, which is why I stated I don't own it. The topic has now moved from the original question to a "what does overrated mean," kinda thing.

OK, well overrated to me means a pin that gets hyped a lot but it isn't that great. TZ and AFM fall into this category for me. T2 does not, even though I was certainly happy to see it leave my collection, because I think most people on here agree that T2 is not that great (sorry Rascal).

Money really doesn't factor into it for me.... it's the fact that DW, FT and HS2 get powered on almost every night while the so-called A-listers gather dust.

Trust me, I know my tastes are different than a lot of people's. I'm ok with that. There aren't too many pins I really don't like... Just pins I wouldn't have in my collection.

CFTBL = keeper

out of pins that I have owened DE SW was over rated

Based on this discussion it sounds like when I take a game to a MGC next year I should leave TAF and MM at home and take RCT with me to share.

I am really surprised to hear so many people say that TAF and MM are their most overrated games.

Different strokes for different folks. For me personally, TAF and MM are keepers. I do not know that I have actually played an overrated game yet. Usually if I give a game a real chance, understand the ruleset, and am able to successfully complete a reasonable amount of tasks, I find that my ranking falls at least reasonably close to the overall pinside ranking. I just figure it is the law of averages and that when I try and be objective I typically come to the same conclusion as the average?

I can think of a few games that I am surprised do not rank higher: No fear being the most recent that comes to mind

Agreed about NF. That one's a gem. Fast and ramps ramps ramps. What's not to like? Do we really need 3 lanes feeding into pops at this point?

I'm not a huge TAF guy even tho I have one but it does some things really well. In particular I've decided it's good because it's so incredibly upbeat. I feel like it's cheering me every step of the way. I think that's part of why it's so popular with the casual player too (my wife loves it). It makes me feel happy about what's going on. Plus it's a theme that's well known and even though the playfield art is god-awful, the translite looks good.

I get a little bit of that feeling from Tron too. They play the crowd cheers frequently as you hit things, which is awesome. My game may only last 2 minutes, but I sure pleased the audience

I think you have to apply "in my opinion" to all of the comments.

For me all the newer Stern games are overrated, but I haven't played Tron or Transformers yet. But I wasn't very impressed with the ones I've played...POTC, SM, BDK, T3, Elvis, Rolling Stones, FYG. Even LOTR was just okay, I'll have to put some more time on SM and LOTR, but overall the newer Sterns have been a letdown...in my opinion.

The thing about MM is that it can appeal to all levels of players. Its has a simple enough objective that the novice player can understand & it has a good ruleset that the better player can try to work through. Thats the great thing about MM you can play a quick game just going for some castles & trying to stack some of the madness's or if you want to try for a longer game you can try to reach BFTK. Put a MM next to TSPP, LOTR or TZ on location & it would probably out earn it by atleast 2 to 1.

A game doesnt have to have a super deep rule sheet to be a great game. Is it worth 10k? Who knows, but it seems you wont find many nice ones for much less anymore.

lol I was thinking the same thing.

I wish you would have asked under-rated.

Keeper: Most of them, but I'd say MM
Overrated: No comment.
Under-rated: Avatar LE

IM fits this to a "T".
I will agree with smassa on the MM angle. Why else would there be a line at any convention just to play it? It really has the best of both worlds for beginners and veterans alike... AFM too.
Do I think they should command $10K to own a decent example of one? I'd have to say "HELL NO!"
Give me four to six other "good" pins for the same price.

I agree though,
Using the term "overrated" is getting really overrated...

I honestly think calling MM "overrated" is all internet phenomenon as EVERY in real life opinion I have heard is, "that is the coolest pinball game I have ever played!" and is usually followed by, "can I play it again?"

Pretty much every single pinhead and the full spectrum of people I have had over to play thus far all LOVE MM.

Heck, since my non-pinhead pinball tournament a few weeks ago all I hear from my coworkers is them asking when they can come over and play MM. For me, that response alone is well worth the over 10k price tag.

I understand you may prefer some cheaper games over more expensive ones. That means that one may be *overpriced*, which does not necessarily mean *overrated*.

Obviously the better a pin is and the higher it is rated, generally speaking it will cost more. But again, the price of a pin should not really have a bearing on whether it is overrated (on the Pinside Top 100 for example). How does the pin look, sound, play, is it deep, humorous, fun, etc. That's what a pin is rated on, not price. Price is a by product of those things, combined with supply and demand. Supply and demand (and therefore price) doesn't make a pin overrated....but it may make it overpriced.

If you agree that MM is the best pin ever made, can you also say that it is overrated? By definition, no, you can't.....even if it sells for a million bucks.

This really doesn't make sense to me. Probably repeating myself, but really, who cares what it costs in terms of whether it is overrated? This thread isn't about what pins are *overpriced*, or not worth the asking price etc. Its about whether a pin is overrated (ie not worthy of it's high praise).

You are basically admitting above that you don't care how good BBB is, it's "overrated" to you simply because of the price, regardless of how it plays etc. "How could it not be" simply because of price, right?

Its the same thing that most people do with MM: they think it's overrated simply because it costs so much. People can't be objective because the price is always stuck in their head, and they can't get over it.

I think by "over rated", the question asks which machines are over valued for their enjoyability. This is highly subjective!

For example AFM and MM play almost the same. Both can appeal to an inexperienced player or an expert player. However one is $6K and the other $9500 in similar condition. If both are equally appealing, the pricier one would be over rated IMHO. Never mind less supply, or any other factors. We are just talking about what you get and what it will cost you.

I would personally prefer to play a collection mostly over rated machines. I just dont want to necessarily pay 40% more, for example, for a machine that I might enjoy 5% more. Get the point?

Nobody says an over rated machine is bad, it just commands a premium that exceeds its enjoyability factor.

surprised at the amount of people that think AFM is overrated.
I don't own the machine but must of spent at least $250 on playing it in college as it was in the game room in my dorm. I never tired of it. Played it again at the NPM and still love it.

I have many keepers that I'd never sell:

MM
Orbitor 1
Farfalla
Cheetah
Haunted House
Blach Hole
Mephisto
Frontiersman
The list goes on...
So hard to pick a number one though... probably Farfalla, it has it all! (only beats MM because the sounds and artwork are better)... MM surely has a deeper rule set... that's why it's so hard to choose, different pins are great for different reasons...

Thanks for clearing that up once and for all.

I love AFM myself, but I can understand why some people think that it is overrated. The layout is as basic as you can possibly get! There are no unique or particularly difficult shots.

Despite the above, I still think it is a great pin. The theme, call outs, art, humor, and even the simple rules all come together to make a really fun pin.

You are repeating yourself, and I will probably repeat myself if we keep going on. We don;t agree on the fundamental points of what makes pinball overrated. Therefore you always see me as wrong and you as right. So agree to disagree.

LOTR - Keeper.

TOTAN - Overrated. I had mine for 8 weeks. It's a pretty game, there's no doubt about that, but I have had much better games than that one.

better is better independent of price. if you don't want to pay 50-100 more for an a title that you only like 10% more, that doesn't make the game any less great. I believe this is the law of diminishing returns if i remember correctly???

Overpriced has nothing to do with overrated.

Keeper: TSPP, reasoning for me is depth. Not a popular view by a lot of people, but to me depth is fun. I like knowing that I haven't (and probably never will) beat this game. I have fun trying to accomplish certain tasks instead of just going for a high score.

Overrated: I can't really say either of my remaining pins are overrated in my opinion. Flash and Pinbot, both pretty low on the top 100. I think they're probably about right where they should be right now.

_{Post edited by Deaconblooze : economic ramble}

Well, since the OP has clarified that this thread has nothing to do with the price of the pin being part of whether it is overrated, your definition is obviously not consistent with his or the point of the thread.

Just sayin'.

Bingo.

Good job!