(Topic ID: 66598)

What is the best process for diagnosing a GI problem ? (solved!)

By mof

10 years ago


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201401-cyclone-new-connector-hurrah.jpg
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#1 10 years ago

I would like to learn a high level explanation of how to trace a GI problem. Not necessarily one specific to Cyclone. Please include "what" to measure and "how" to measure it so that noobs can learn as well from your teachings.

My Cyclone GI happens to be out 100%. It was out 50% on one side and I saw a crispy connector. I reseated it and it came back on (that was a few weeks ago.)

It made me realize, I'd like to have a general strategy for what to check (how) and in what order when GI goes out.

My experience so far is:

1) twisting a loose bulb socket can short GI
2) a crispy connector can short GI (but I don't know what causes the burn)
3) a blown fuse can cause GI to not work, (but I'm not sure what causes the fuse to blow)

I'd like some kind of 10 step process to run through if possible. Feel free to toss some links.

thanks!
-mof

#2 10 years ago

Check fuse first. (Burnt connectors can cause issues by increasing resistance)

Check connectors. Crispy....replace header and pins.

#3 10 years ago

I would get a meter, set it to AC, checking hot and common. Then check at the connector leaving a board towards the bulb sockets. Do you have 6 volts AC going out ? If not then start checking the other way, AC to the board, leaving transformer.

If you have AC leaving the board, does it get to the sockets ?

If you figure where you have power and where it stops, then you know where the issue is and what needs fixing easier.

LTG : )

#4 10 years ago

Usually EGD followed by colonoscopy.

#5 10 years ago

Actually I would back it up a little further and check the voltage at the plug closest to the transformer.
Next at the GI plug on the driver board, a trace coming out of the triac at full display intensity , then dimmed.
Then at the bulb socket.

#6 10 years ago
Quoted from Nevus:

Usually EGD followed by colonoscopy.

AHAHA! That pretty much made my night. (I work in registration for a group of hospitals.)

#7 10 years ago

I've only had to deal with GI problems on WPC games and Bad Cats.

Bad Cats' problem was the fact that literally all but one GI light was burned out.

For WPC, I follow this guide:
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#General_Illumination_Problems

#8 10 years ago
Quoted from mof:

My Cyclone GI happens to be out 100%. It was out 50% on one side and I saw a crispy connector. I reseated it and it came back on (that was a few weeks ago.)

Reseating helps "clean" a connector and can temporarily fix a problem, but should be taken as an indicator that it is time to replace the connector itself as well as the male pins on the board.

Quoted from mof:

2) a crispy connector can short GI (but I don't know what causes the burn)

Time + heat causes crispy connectors. Who knows what condition the machine was run in, it could have been on 24 hours a day for four years straight for all we know. One thing I am willing to bet on is that the connector is the same one from the factory which in the case of a Cyclone means its 25 years old. If you replace it and use it in a HUO environment you should never have to replace it again.

#9 10 years ago

Check out the burnt GI I had on my Hurricane, wires were soldered directly to traces on the boards and pins.

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#10 10 years ago

Finally found the connectors. Crispy. Looking to learn more about connectors.

I reseated it and the GI is all back on (for now)

What's the cause of this?
What's the ideal remedy?
What's the cost or possible cost of continuing to use the connectors as-is?

What part(s) do I need to repair? (feel free to link another thread)

thanks,
mof

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#11 10 years ago

How do you have 10 pins and have never replaced a connector? lucky!

#12 10 years ago

Like I said before, years if constant electricity going through connectors will toast them. You can get everything you need a great plains electronics. Parts will cost very little, you will have to buy a crimper though, that's about 20$. Replace the connector and you will never have it happen again unless you leave your pin on for eight hours a day for 20 years. Its very common and like chitown pinball said its surprising you have never had to do it.

Replace the connectors AND the pins on the board. I can give better part info later, I'm on mg phone right now.

#13 10 years ago

Cost of continuing to use connectors as is is that they will completely fail at some point.

#14 10 years ago
Quoted from practicalsteve:

Check out the burnt GI I had on my Hurricane, wires were soldered directly to traces on the boards and pins.

Oh yeah...a lot of us have been through that one before (a couple of times).

#15 10 years ago

Here is a VERY in depth explanation of connectors: Sections 3 and 4 are the actual process. It looks intimidating but its not. I have done it, so I think almost anyone can.
http://www.pinrepair.com/connect/

Heres the connectors- you can buy the exact size you need or buy several large ones and you can cut to length as you need them, all of the connectors on the page are the same, except for the number of pins the accommodate. http://www.greatplainselectronics.com/category-86.asp

Heres the pins that go into the board, you can only buy these in long lengths, then you cut down to size, you need the first one listed on the page http://www.greatplainselectronics.com/Category-79.asp

Heres the crimp contacts, you need the SECOND one listed on the page (part # 08-52-0072) buy a TON of them, you will smash and mess up a bunch as you learn how to crimp them. They are only 8 cents. http://www.greatplainselectronics.com/Category-80.asp

On the same page as the crimp contacts scroll down. You need to buy some of the small keying plugs too. That's what you put into the connector that prevents you from plugging it back in wrong. Part# 15-04-0297. Don't forget to do that, I plugged my F-14 display back in wrong because someone before me did not put in that keying plug and it killed my display.

Scroll down on that page a little more. There are the actual crimping tools there. People say to buy the expensive one (100$!!) if you plan to do it all of the time. As for me, I bought the ones with the red handle that cost 16$ and they work fine for how often I need them.

#16 10 years ago

Basically in a nutshell you do this. Remove that little toasted board. Using your soldering iron and solder sucker (or desolder braid, or desolderer etc) remove all of the solder on the back of the toasted pins on the board. After that the old pins should pull out with some pliers. Put the new pins through and resolder. Make sure you clip off the one that was missing from the original, in your pic its third from the left. Its missing for a reason. Your going to put your little plug in that position in the connector later.

Then take that crusty connector and snip one wire off at a time. You strip and expose maybe .25" from the end of the wire. Rest it in the crimp contact. The goal is that the innner little collar should wrap around the exposed wire, but you don't want to have the wire stick out much further from that crimp, you don't want a lot of exposed wire after that inner crimp and you don't want it touching the part of the crimp contact that curves up. The outer collar of the crimp contact gets crimped second and the goal is that it should be crimping around the insulation at the end of the wire. You really want three hands for this, they are so tiny and you want to be as precise as possible. Check the first link above that's for pin repair, in section four its shows what you want.

Then you slide the crimp into your new connector, it should click into place and if you give it a little tug it should not come out. There is a little tab on the top of the crimp that locks into that little cut out in the connector housing. If you do need to remove one, take a tiny eyeglass screwdriver and push that little tab exposed through the cutout to release it. You do each wire one at a time so you make sure they are staying in order. Take a picture beforehand too and compare before you plug back in and turn on. Make sure you have the orientation of the connector the correct way when you start or you can find out that you just did it backwards, IE all of the wires are now in reverse order. I've done that.

The great thing is, is you mess up a crimp, just cut it off and try again, that's why you bought a ton of them. If you plug it back in and it doesn't work 100% one of the crimps was not done correctly, no harm no foul, just figure out which one is loose and try again. Don't forget to put a plug in that connector where there is no pin

2 months later
#17 10 years ago

Got my tools, ready to give it a shot!
-mof

201401-cyclone-crispy.jpg201401-cyclone-crispy.jpg201401-crimping-time.jpg201401-crimping-time.jpg

#18 10 years ago

You can do it! Sorry i never found teh time to make it out and give you a crash course.

#19 10 years ago

Sigh of massive relief... Hopefully this will hold and not crisp up again soon. What kind of measurements can I take to ensure that the system is happy and not going to heat up again ?

First time's a charm!

thanks for the help, Steve !
-mof

201401-cyclone-new-connector-hurrah.jpg201401-cyclone-new-connector-hurrah.jpg

#20 10 years ago

The two pins on the board that went crispy -- I simply de-soldered them and then reflowed fresh solder for them. Is it important to remove all 4 pins and start from scratch? If so, why?

The connector feels cool to the touch after being on for 15 minutes. I think it was feeling very warm before, I think that's a good sign.

thanks,
mof

#21 10 years ago

So you didn't replace the male pins at all?

Always replace pins where the connector has been cooked. The burnt pins can cause excess resistance, leading to another cooked connector.

#22 10 years ago

Happy Happy (10 minutes into playing and GI stays on, it's like a miracle.)
-mof
201401-cyclone-happy-GI.jpg201401-cyclone-happy-GI.jpg

#23 10 years ago
Quoted from mof:

I would like to learn a high level explanation of how to trace a GI problem

I think the typical answer would be post a help topic on pinside lol.

#24 10 years ago
Quoted from Hellfire:

I think the typical answer would be post a help topic on pinside lol.

I would say search rgp first. Way more information can be found there than can be found here.

#25 10 years ago

I'm really confused. A connector (the plastic piece where the wires are seated) can have different current rating, voltage rating, circuit size, pin size, engagement force, wire AWG capabilities, configurations, termination method, positive locks, fully-isolated contacts, and polarization?? How would you find this in your manual? I have a pinbot that has a fried connector and I thought you just bought a connector with the same number of slots and simply replaced the wires?

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