The argument about subtracting eBay fees from eBay prices seems counter-intuitive to me. I'm no economist but I'd have to assume the eBay buyer who drops $5,500 + $300 shipping for a TAF would be willing to spend $5,800 for a local purchase in the same condition. At least that's how I'd interpret the data.

Not saying it's not worth raising that argument as a buyer, but if I were the seller of this TAF I would have seen this as the buyer trying to "capture" the entire "savings" generated by not using a middle man (eBay) and avoiding shipping costs. Offering to split that "savings" instead of just subtracting it from your offer might have struck the seller as more reasonable.

HUO wozle 10k?
I saw some listings at 9k, did they really sell at that price? If so, ouch for the buyers.

Back to op, how long have you been looking for one, locally, that meets your criteria?

dp (double post)

To sum it up, the people that own TAF says 5500 is a good price.

The people that don't say its a low 4K machine.

5K is in the middle so I think your offer is fair

Value is in the eye of the beholder. I gave up on looking for a decent Adams. Everyone I have gone and looked at has been heavily used and all the machines I looked at had significant mansion wear. Unlike TZ where the playfield stays pretty nice-Adams gets beat with those large inserts by flippers. It is difficult to find a HUO or low play Adams, and if you do find one- it is worth the money.

My logic on subtracting ebay/paypal fees from the bostonpinball references is that there are 2 things in any pinball transaction, what the seller pockets and what the buyer pays.

If the seller want 'top' ebay dollar then they can list it, pay the fees, deal with shipping, and then also deal with a potentially mad buyer that proves the item was not as described and returns the game or pulls the scam where ebay tells them to destroy the item and get a full refund pulled from your accounts. Keep in mind that for large $ items ebay talks to the tax man also.

If the seller wants a hassle free cash transaction from a buyer that is obviously happy enough to walk with the game when they pick it up and there are no fees, tax man, or potentially need for shipping or scams then that is worth less then what they would have gotten on ebay to a larger audience,

Also realize that if $5300 is average (plus shipping sometimes) and you're looking at an 8.5 machine, then that example is above average and more like a $6,000 machine.

People constantly slam eBay & PayPal for their "outrageous fees", and it doesn't help to post these inaccuracies. 14% of $5500 would be $770, and that's *far* from correct. There are literally no listing fees, no picture fees, the biggest upgrade fee is the reserve, but just start it high, no fee for that. For a long time, the max fee on eBay was $100, now it's $250 and for some of us that sell on eBay with a Basic Store, it's $200. If you choose to take PayPal, you get hit with an additional 2.9% max so $160 totaling. a MAX $410, not $770. Again some of use with volume pay less, I pay 2.2% so in this example. Pinball machines sold on eBay are often paid for in cash too. I would be paying a total of $320 in fees, certainly worth the exposure I get, and the price I get.

http://www.fees.ebay.com/feeweb/feecalculator

I think Boston Pinball's data is the most useful thing there is for pricing. It's not trying to be anything else than what the data provides, and they note that. If used right, and there are enough year to date sales, it's a very good tool.

These are absolutely horrible examples. Of course HUO woz were fetching mass money a few months ago. There weren't hardly any out yet and it was extremely rare to actually see one at that time. Now anyone can just go pick up a woz. There are a few in stock locally. Acdc is similar. Stern made a couple additional runs since then. These two examples don't support a bursting price bubble. They just show that new games in current production drop from their nib price while nib are available. From why I can see, the only games that actually dropped in price are Mm, afm (a little), mb, and cactus canyon. Nib games are still selling like hot cakes at high prices. There's no indication of a bubble or one bursting.

Is it worth $300 to get your upgrade now instead of searching? That seems to be the real question here. If I wanted something, it would certainly be worth 10% or so for me to just get it and be done with it. Others will spend years searching to save that 10%. The same is true of sellers. I would accept 10% less to not have to deal with selling it anymore. Others will sit on a game for months or years to try to squeeze out every penny.

I disagree to an extent on WoZ being a poor example, JJP's landmark initial high pricing for Woz at $6500 lead the run-up in pricing. It's the poster child for pinflation. On one hand, nobody likes to see their values drop like a rock but on the other, I hope that my collection loses 50% of its value in the next couple years. I would like to play more games and will simply not be buying $4-10K machines worth 1/2 that (IMO). Lots of new collectors have hyper-inflated pin prices but as more new machine option hit the market, supply is catching up with demand.

Boston Pinball is fine for a quick and dirty reference. But for a better comparison I'd look at recent completed (not just sold) eBay sales, Pinside ads/FS threads, Mr Pinball ads, etc. Some will say current asking prices don't matter, but I say they do because those are the only other current options. You can't go back in time and offer to buy a machine that is already sold. But you can use it as a reference. Just remember that a seller is not obligated to sell something at any price, even if the last 5 examples sold for the same amount. A seller can ask what he/she wants, and it will sell for what a buyer is willing to pay for it.

Back to TAFs though. I've sold 6 of them since last summer. One was sold using Buy It Now on eBay ($5950). Two were sold outside of eBay. One was sold to a repeat customer. Two went to re-sellers, one of which sold on eBay for $6800. So Boston Pinball is only going to pick up the $5950 and $6800 sales. My $5950 sale included free tech support and warranty on the boards, and netted me $5700 after fees.

Of course there are often cheaper TAFs on eBay. Some with two sentence descriptions and pictures apparently taken during tremors still bring upper $4k sometimes. I'd hope whoever is buying those types of machines is looking them over in person first and is willing to spend hours fixing a machine that a seller took all of 5 minutes to try and sell. But no doubt there is a diamond in the rough here and there...eBay, Craigslist (for you career RSS feeders out there), even Pinside occasionally. Oh and speaking of Pinside, one with moderate mansion wear apparently just sold for close to $5500 here. That said, I'm going to start a FS thread now...

Good luck with the search Tom. I don't know what an 8.5 is anymore but I'd say the ballpark is $4500 to $6000. If you're ever down my way, feel free to call and stop by.

I'm a non negotiating kind if guy. If you come to my house to buy a pin at the set price, and you show up $20 short, you're going home empty handed. If you come to my house and start telling me about your gas costs and time to drive here, you're going home empty handed. If seller wants HIS price and buyer wants HIS price, set 1/2 way or both lose sale.

Tell him you'll meet 1/2 way if you can live with that. If he can't, you'll find another later. Not like it's a life-critical item.

Agreed. He's wasting your time which is disrespectful IMO. You'll find another nicer TAF.

How about a different angle? Think about how much you could get/would get for yours & ask yourself is the nicer one worth X amount of dollars more?

That's a different issue. You've already nailed it. He's yanking you. I'd move on. I've sold to great buyers and, well, nitpicking whiners who cry about the cost of gas to fill their ford 2500 diesel they drive to pick up my pin.

My pins were always truthfully advertised and presented, I respect the drive it took them to get to me and offer beers, plays on my collection, heck, even grilled steak tips if they're hungry.

But JUST DON'T WHINE about crap out of our control, and if you've decided not to buy or sell, JUST SAY SO. It's not personal. Geez!

85% of my sales always went smoothly. 10% of issues were shipping and other 5% mentioned above.