(Topic ID: 93335)

We want our machines Jack Guarnieri.

By Playerone

9 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 47 posts
  • 23 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 years ago by JerseyJack
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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This topic is closed.

#1 9 years ago

I have been ripped off $9000 and I'm pretty pissed off. It's been awhile now, mid last year the news broke that Bumper Action the then distributor for Jersey Jack Pinball had gone into administration leaving 79 buyers of the Wizard of Oz pinball machine out of pocket to the tune of around $450,000. What wasn't highly publicized at the time is that Jack Guarnieri had been paid deposit money of approx $150,000 by Bumper as an advance payment on the order. Not long after the devastating news sunk in, a collective of affected buyers was formed called the WOZ fund (WF). Names of all buyers, their email addresses, how much they had paid and even machine numbers were sourced through a very honorable and equally devastated ex Bumper employee. Every single person who had committed a single dollar was contacted and asked if they would like to join a class action to see if we could legally take on Bumper. The response was fantastic and people who had lost money on their dream reached into their pockets again and a substantial amount was raised, the 3 organizers of the fund who had lost much less than many others have been amazing in coordinating and communicating with WF members.
After employing two legal representatives it soon became clear that chasing the money lost to Bumper was going to cost a lot more than we had raised and even then there would be no guarantee of a win. So with that avenue exhausted the focus then shifted to the money that had been paid to Jack by Bumper. Jack did late last year ship two machines that became the topic of much controversy as to you would end up with them, I'm not entirely sure where they went. However, this left Jack still holding $130,000 of WF members money. Due to the complexity of returning the money (which is extremely convenient for him as he has none), he agreed to build and ship 22 machines at the Bumper purchase price of appox $5500 each. It was decided with a voting system within the group that the 22 machines would be sold to the open market upon delivery with WF members to have first pick. The proceeds would then be distributed WF members in accordance with their loss. This agreement was made in November 2013, it is now June 2014 and we have not received a single machine. Yet he continues to build and ship new money machines for new money buyers.
As I have mentioned in another post, this should be Jacks absolute number one priority! Forget your new money machines. Get this done! This is the biggest scandal in pinball history and he treats us with such utter contempt it sickens me. Through this whole debacle he has not once made communication with anyone to apologies for what we have been through. He has access to names and emails. Although it's not all his fault a decent person would do this.

He is the beneficiary of our money in some form, whether it's been spent on his whirlwind marketing trips or on play field carousels in his factory he is still the direct beneficiary of it. He has gone to ground now and will not answer any questions. It is clear he is treading water financially and I would warn anyone against putting money in the hand of this scoundrel.

#2 9 years ago

this should go over like a lead dirigible.

IBTL

-1
#3 9 years ago
Quoted from Playerone:

It is clear he is treading water financially and I would warn anyone against putting money in the hand of this scoundrel.

Do you have proof of this or are you just stirring the pot.
....I thought this was a legal matter now and discussed in another thread.

#4 9 years ago

Every time a new plank manufacturer enters the market old mate Gary the silver haired fox just looks better and better. Gary for congress by Xmas.

#5 9 years ago

Hope things work out for all of you.

-6
#6 9 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Do you have proof of this or are you just stirring the pot.
....I thought this was a legal matter now and discussed in another thread.

That would be my personal assessment gained through a lifetime of experience, unfortunately I didn't see this snake oil salesman coming.

#7 9 years ago

Can someone break this shit down in English for me?

#8 9 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Can someone break this shit down in English for me?

Legal matter...waiting for outcome...

-3
#9 9 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Do you have proof of this or are you just stirring the pot.
....I thought this was a legal matter now and discussed in another thread.

Proof or not Jack seems to be high risk at this time and the only one who can change that is Jack with actions not more pass the buck.

-1
#10 9 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Legal matter...waiting for outcome...

There is no legal action happening, the only thing we're waiting on is Jack to deliver the machines he promised to build. If they don't arrive he has just stolen $130,000.

#11 9 years ago

Thumbs down to a guy that lost 9k tsk tsk guys. He deserves any rants he wants . And much more.

#12 9 years ago
Quoted from Playerone:

the only thing we're waiting on is Jack to deliver the machines he promised to build. If they don't arrive he has just stolen $130,000.

Please show paperwork.
If someone stole your money, have your group get a lawyer here and sue.
(if there's money to be made, a lawyer will do it on spec)

-1
#13 9 years ago

I paid in full for 3 games and still haven't got my game. He's out only a deposit money. Go stand with picket signs in front of the guys house who started his problem. Then send me a picture ill give him a thumbs up then!

14
#14 9 years ago

I am sorry but your business is with your distributor.

Sure, it would be nice for JJP to help you all out but I see no obligation or legal reason he should comply with your demands.

The way I understand this is your AUS laws suck regarding business bankruptcy. You had a legal agreement with your distributor so go get it from him.

If you have a leagl agreement with JJP then take it up that way.

I am really sorry for your loss and this sounds like a shitty situation but I think you are going about this the wrong way.

#15 9 years ago

just another reminder of the unnecessary risk pre order people put themselves in, yikes! a terrible situation for you guys down under and jjp. best of luck with a resolution m8.

52
#16 9 years ago

We are building and shipping what we were paid for. We are here, not going anywhere either. There are 55 games going to Australia in a few weeks - 22 of them are the paid for "Bumper games"

If we were paid for more when we asked Del & Co. To pay us - they would go too.

We are sorry this was not in our control as we could have done much more.

#17 9 years ago

Well!...there's the answer!

#18 9 years ago

There u go... The man speaks... I'm sure it still won't be good enough for original poster... In before the lock

-1
#19 9 years ago

We should turn this into a movie thread. I saw the wolf of Wall Street last week. Thoughts??

-9
#20 9 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Well!...there's the answer!

Actions speak louder than words my friend, let us revisit this in a "few weeks" shall we. Could we agree that a ""few" is generally regarded as 3?

-9
#21 9 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Well!...there's the answer!

Please there has been a whole lot said over the last year yet hear we are.

#22 9 years ago

Yes...close the thread...

-3
#23 9 years ago

I think he meant a few weeks "ish".

-19
#24 9 years ago
Quoted from JerseyJack:

We are sorry this was not in our control as we could have done much more.

More pass the buck.

#25 9 years ago
Quoted from ek77:

Please there has been a whole lot said over the last year yet hear we are.

So, are you going to just complain...or wait to see what happens... You have an answer, so let it play out...
or do people just want the bullshit to continue...

-7
#26 9 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

So, are you going to just complain...or wait to see what happens... You have an answer, so let it play out...
or do people just want the bullshit to continue...

Answers over actions is the bullshit.

#27 9 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

So, are you going to just complain...or wait to see what happens... You have an answer, so let it play out...
or do people just want the bullshit to continue...

Ek77 doesn't even had a dog in this race. He's just putting his two cents in. Not a woz customer if I remember correctly.

#28 9 years ago

As the court would say "You have the burden of proof". You see you can sue anyone for anything, but winning, it a whole other story, but what is more important, "Is the price your chasing worth the chase"? The problem you have is, you do not have enough money on the table worth chasing. You can lump it as $130,000 with everyone but only class action lawsuit would cover that and the attorney's are going to eat that alive. The only one that wins most of the time is the attorneys office. It like a divorce case. You can have all the proof in the world but it the attorney and judge are playing golf, you screwed . What if the judge hates pinball and they are like Judge Judy and say's what moron would buy a pinball machine without anything in writing? Would you buy a home are car that way? "It's late I need to eat" "stop bothering the courts we hate to do our job". Ok she does say that, but by saying stop bothering me it's lunch time, she pretty much is.
It's all a risk in the courts, just like when you put your deposit down. Welcome to Vegas! It sucks but trust me some of us have already been there just in different ways. I feel for you, I really do. You have a right to be mad and if it happened to anyone on here they would be ticked off. However, life is short count your blessing and move on or let it drive you crazy. Good Luck which ever way you go....

#29 9 years ago

#30 9 years ago
Quoted from ek77:

Answers over actions is the bullshit.

Whe are you and lowepg so obsessed with JJP? You follow him around and talk about him like a creepy stalker

#31 9 years ago

Some people are not happy unless they're miserable....

#32 9 years ago
Quoted from JerseyJack:

If we were paid for more when we asked Del & Co. To pay us - they would go too.

this.

so what happened to customers monies at Bumper. it didnt even get to JJP ?

#33 9 years ago
Quoted from DCfoodfreak:

Thumbs down to a guy that lost 9k tsk tsk guys. He deserves any rants he wants . And much more.

He deserves any rants against the distributor he gave his money to. It's the distributor who took his money and filed for bankruptcy in Australia. The matter is in an Australian bankruptcy court pending resolution.

#34 9 years ago

So the OPs issue with Jack is when is their order getting shipped. All the rest about getting burned and lawsuits and such has zero to do with Jack sending machines out?

I love a hobby where the owner of a company like JJP is willing to log in and communicate directly with the masses about something like this. Not many companies will take the time. Very cool IMO. Keep it up Jack.

To the OP, sounds like the machines that were purchased from the manufacturer are getting set to ship soon, that's great and hopefully everyone who has bought one gets one in the end.

#35 9 years ago
Quoted from JerseyJack:

We are building and shipping what we were paid for. We are here, not going anywhere either. There are 55 games going to Australia in a few weeks - 22 of them are the paid for "Bumper games"

If we were paid for more when we asked Del & Co. To pay us - they would go too.

We are sorry this was not in our control as we could have done much more.

Great to see this!

#36 9 years ago
Quoted from ek77:

More pass the buck.

I don't know about that....

Hard to ask them to provide MORE than what they were paid for... If I read this issue correctly, these 22 machines were to cover the PARTIAL deposit that JJP rec'd. The other 2/3rd's or so was absconded with by the Bumper Co- NOT JJP.

I'd say short of a tracking number, the OP could hardly have asked for a more positive reply from JJP than this.

Good job OP for pushing the topic for your mates and cheers to JJP for promising delivery in the public forum.

#37 9 years ago
Quoted from JerseyJack:

We are building and shipping what we were paid for. We are here, not going anywhere either. There are 55 games going to Australia in a few weeks - 22 of them are the paid for "Bumper games"
If we were paid for more when we asked Del & Co. To pay us - they would go too.
We are sorry this was not in our control as we could have done much more.

Well you have it posted. If JJP delivers games within a few weeks I think everything is good and this all goes away. Now if JJP doesn't ship the games, then he should be held accountable.

Problem solved

#38 9 years ago
Quoted from Playerone:

A collective of affected buyers was formed called the WOZ fund (WF).

Should have called it the WOZ Transient Fund (WTF)

#39 9 years ago
Quoted from pins4fun:

He deserves any rants against the distributor he gave his money to. It's the distributor who took his money and filed for bankruptcy in Australia. The matter is in an Australian bankruptcy court pending resolution.

There is absolutely no legal action underway in Australia. A few here are missing the point. We have accepted our loss of $300000 to Bumper. Thats dead! Over! Gone! What I'm talking about here is the money that was paid to Jack that luckily escaped Bumpers spendathon. He still has $130000 and promised machines for ripped off Aussie buyers and continues to deliver nothing on his word to make and send 22 machines. Now, he has just for the fist time that I am aware made a very public statement on this forum committing to sending a shipment of 55 machines to Australia in the next "few" weeks which will include the 22 machines for the WF team. I'm a pretty fair person, let's see how he goes in a few weeks.

-1
#40 9 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Can someone break this shit down in English for me?

These guys here in this thread are a few Aussies who lost there money to there distributor and they post on the subject from time to time, primarily circle-jerking each other off. Targeting JJP in the process is redundant, uncalled for, and completely tasteless

15
#41 9 years ago

JJPs response here is very professional, considering the OP was being pretty incendiary calling Jack a crook and a scoundrel. OP, i dont fault you for your rage -- i know how infuriating it is to get ripped off. but i think you were letting some of the anger at your distro to spill over on to JJP.

#42 9 years ago
Quoted from pezpunk:

JJPs response here is very professional, considering the OP was being pretty incendiary calling Jack a crook and a scoundrel. OP, i dont fault you for your rage -- i know how infuriating it is to get ripped off. but i think you were letting some of the anger at your distro to spill over on to JJP.

Scoundrel is a pretty tame term, I'd rate it up their with biting your thumb at someone, sir.

#43 9 years ago
Quoted from Playerone:

There is absolutely no legal action underway in Australia. A few here are missing the point. We have accepted our loss of $300000 to Bumper. Thats dead! Over! Gone! What I'm talking about here is the money that was paid to Jack that luckily escaped Bumpers spendathon. He still has $130000 and promised machines for ripped off Aussie buyers and continues to deliver nothing on his word to make and send 22 machines. Now, he has just for the fist time that I am aware made a very public statement on this forum committing to sending a shipment of 55 machines to Australia in the next "few" weeks which will include the 22 machines for the WF team. I'm a pretty fair person, let's see how he goes in a few weeks.

Ok, so he said he is delivering them. He is not the only one on the hook now that you have stated you are a fair person. There are now two groups that need to demonstrate that. JJP and WF.

#44 9 years ago
Quoted from Playerone:

There is absolutely no legal action underway in Australia. A few here are missing the point. We have accepted our loss of $300000 to Bumper. Thats dead! Over! Gone! What I'm talking about here is the money that was paid to Jack that luckily escaped Bumpers spendathon. He still has $130000 and promised machines for ripped off Aussie buyers and continues to deliver nothing on his word to make and send 22 machines. Now, he has just for the fist time that I am aware made a very public statement on this forum committing to sending a shipment of 55 machines to Australia in the next "few" weeks which will include the 22 machines for the WF team. I'm a pretty fair person, let's see how he goes in a few weeks.

Just for shits and giggles give it a month lol

#45 9 years ago

I'm wondering if there are other examples of a distributor going broke and the vendor directly making the customers whole. That doesn't sound like the easiest legal/business arrangement. I'd also assume that bankruptcy courts would be the only one who could make that decision. That said, I have no idea of this distributor's status.

#46 9 years ago

Can we lock this thread and get a report back on July 6th if games have note been delivered to AUS?

44
#47 9 years ago
Quoted from Playerone:

There is absolutely no legal action underway in Australia. A few here are missing the point. We have accepted our loss of $300000 to Bumper. Thats dead! Over! Gone! What I'm talking about here is the money that was paid to Jack that luckily escaped Bumpers spendathon. He still has $130000 and promised machines for ripped off Aussie buyers and continues to deliver nothing on his word to make and send 22 machines. Now, he has just for the fist time that I am aware made a very public statement on this forum committing to sending a shipment of 55 machines to Australia in the next "few" weeks which will include the 22 machines for the WF team. I'm a pretty fair person, let's see how he goes in a few weeks.

We will post picture of the games being built in process too - remember - pictures or it didn't happen.

A few people doubted us at each and every step along the way from day one. We understand that. We have been slower that we would have liked and some of our vendors have been slower still.

The most difficult is behind us and we are making better progress every week. At least we are building games and shipping them every day which is a dream come true. Thanks to all of those who believed when we had nothing at all. Our Best Days are just ahead!

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