Virtual Pinball Machine versus Traditional Pinball Machine

Started 2 years ago by JDub1006 in forum All PinballAll Pinball.


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Virtual Pinball Machine versus Traditional Pinball Machine


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  • Started 2 years ago by JDub1006
  • 24 Pinsiders participating in this thread.
  • Latest reply from NickWar

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    2 years, 6 months ago
    #

    So last night I had a few people over to play in my mini arcade. We got into a heated discussion about video game pinball, virtual pinball and traditional pinball.

    Before I give my stance (which was torn apart last night by my friends) I want everyone to know I LOVE pinball. The type of pins I enjoy the most are 60's and 70's EM games however, I own several different types.

    So last night in the middle of talking about our favorite games I told my buddies I was saving for a Virtual Pinball Machine, after my friend spit his drink from his mouth he told me he will never sell me another game because I will defile my arcade room with this electronic monster. I tried to explain that my boy's (8 and 10) would enjoy the variety it offers (You can load up to 250 games), and allow our family to play games like MM, FH, CC and CV without breaking the bank.

    I was ridiculed for about an hour about how I disgraced the pinball gods, a REAL pinball game in 100% random, how pinball is dying with the younger generation and machines like this are the cause and how a LCD screen is NOT a pinball machine no matter what cabinet you put it into.

    My question, is a virtual machine really that bad? I was looking for a cost effective way for my kids to play more great games with a traditional look and feel. There are few arcades where I live that carry pins, and buying DMD pins is expensive (I just bought one).

    All in all I think a virtual machine is a good idea, the play is fun not like a traditional pin but still fun, the game selection you can upload is awesome and it fits well in our arcade theme.

    Am I way out in left field here? Do other agree?


    2 years, 6 months ago
    #

    Sounds like you need new friends! J/K (sort of)

    While I personally would never buy a virtual pinball machine I certainly wouldn't consider it a disgrace for a friend of mine to buy one. Sounds like you have good reasons for getting it and you shouldn't feel like any less of a pinball fan for wanting to do so.


    2 years, 6 months ago
    #
    JDub1006 said:

    My question, is a virtual machine really that bad?

    Nope but they aren't the same. I know of someone here in the UK who because he had to go down to 1 game decided on the virtual way forward but his interest didn't last. I would suggest the play-station and PC options to keep them interested. With a bit of luck they may get more excited about playing the real thing-no guarantees though.


    2 years, 6 months ago
    #

    JDub, I would never ridicule your opinion. I don't share it though.


    2 years, 6 months ago
    #
    jarjarisgod said:

    While I personally would never buy a virtual pinball machine I certainly wouldn't consider it a disgrace for a friend of mine to buy one. Sounds like you have good reasons for getting it and you shouldn't feel like any less of a pinball fan for wanting to do so.

    DITO, may be the only option for some. I bet the die hard original bingo machine fans thought is was blasphemy or witchcraft to add flippers to a machine. It was going to ruin the game. Times do move on.


    2 years, 6 months ago
    #

    I would buy one, I like the idea of hundreds of machines with very little maintenance. But I would never pass on a real model because I have the virtual one.


    2 years, 6 months ago
    #

    I don't have one of those large virtual tables, but I do have 1 real pin and a MAME machine with 100's of virtual pins loaded.

    The MAME was what got me back into pinball, (I'm coming clean here, folks), so if it wasn't for the virtual tables, I probably would never have even considered buying the real thing. And, I intend to add other real pinballs in the future.

    The real pins are the best, IMO, but I like them both. The virtual tables allow me to play pins I would probably never get to play (such as BBB) and they let me find which ones I like the best. Then I go buy the real thing.

    In the meantime, I have 100's more free virtual tables in one game. No, it's not same as the real deal, but they are fun. Besides, if I download one I don't like, I just delete it.

    Then I step to the left and play a real pinball!


    2 years, 6 months ago
    #

    I think its a good idea in you're situation, i would not consider this because i just know i would be bored in 20 minutes, but that's me. I would recommend to buy a used one, so if you regret the purchase or the kids get bored of it you can resell it and not loose that much of that hard earned green.

    And one more thing, there is no way a computer and the VP software can simulate all the physics and random weird shit that happens on the playfield of the real thing.


    2 years, 6 months ago
    #

    I got into pinball recently because of hyperpin/visualpinball/futurepin. I have purchased the pc, tv's/monitors to build one actually. I had it setup to test on my desk and I can load any table available and if you have HDD space you can put every game ever created (except newer ones that arent made yet) and flip through and play between them with a few clicks. I even have a motion sensing controller to mount in the cabinet for nudge (analog nudging ), real flipper buttons and analog plunger control. Luckily visualpin uses vpmame which is the actual rom from the pin game, BUT it still does not play like a real pin machine. It is pretty darn good, but real pins still have a look and feel that you will not and can not emulate. Like when a ball falls off a ramp or jumps over your flipper from some freak flip.

    For instance, MM. Favorite game. I found it in vpin and played the crap out of it. Catapult is hard to get in and some other things. But I played a real one this pas weekend. Felt totally different. Catapult was easy to get into, ball was all over.

    IMO, why not both? I can't afford every pin machine. Specially a MM or AFM at this point in my life. I want to own them sometime yes, but for now I was going to make my hyperpin cabinet and I'm also going to buy a cheaper DMD pin for around $1k to get my real pin addiction under control So for me, both is great. I actually play games on VP to see if I even like them before emailing/calling a seller. Will it defile your collection? hell no. Your friends are maybe too purists OR they've never played a GOOD virtual pin setup.

    A good virtual setup, has knockers, shakers, analog plunger and nudge sensing, lights, and the tv is at the same angle/level as a real play field. Some you cant even tell its fake.

    Check this guys build out. His first build and this build are what really sparked me to go nuts and make mine as realistic as I can.

    http://www.hyperspin-fe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13146

    video walk around
    » YouTube video


    2 years, 6 months ago
    #

    Virtual pinball is a great concept, however the physics are still a bit lacking. It won't take them too much longer though. I hope to see a decent playing "virtual" machine by 2013. The uptick is, you can build it as big or as small as you want (ala chocky's problem), so fitting it into somewhere tight- where a normal machine wouldn't possibly go is always an attractive solution. Plus it is a great springboard/tool to help you decide on some REAL sleeper machine that you hadn't thought of purchasing in the first place.
    Plus- as emo stated,
    They might just get the bug to go out and play the real thing to see what they are missing.

    Is anyone on here going to build a "Virtual Hercules" with one of those new 108" TVs???
    That, would be EPIC!!!!


    2 years, 6 months ago
    #

    Here is his 1st pin with the PF tv on the rails

    http://www.hyperspin-fe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4826

    AFM test
    » YouTube video

    LW3 test
    » YouTube video

    real flipper vs virtual one
    » YouTube video

    nudging
    » YouTube video


    2 years, 6 months ago
    #
    The_Gorilla said:

    JDub, I would never ridicule your opinion. I don't share it though

    Gorilla-

    LOL, Don't hold back, give it to me straight


    2 years, 6 months ago
    #

    Some of those virtual tables are real nice. I played one at a guy's house that he custom built. I have to say, it was a lot of fun. He had every table on there you can imagine, plus a ton of original ones. I see no reason why the two can't peacefully exist side by side in a person's collection. In fact, the guy whose virtual table I played was a serious pinhead. He has a beautiful CC sitting right next to it.


    2 years, 6 months ago
    #

    After seeing those pics and that cost, along with my very meager income, I don't see why I wouldn't make one of those my next pin. Of course I would love to have the real thing, but when they look that accurate, outside of a little ramp flattening, it's very impressive.


    2 years, 6 months ago
    #

    I would build one for under $1k, I would not buy one for the $5k they want


    2 years, 6 months ago
    #

    whoa, 5k? where do you see prices listed? Building Vs. buying certainly with that price difference. I didn't even know you could buy these things, but it makes sense, if it can be built, it can be bought.


    2 years, 6 months ago
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    toyotaboy said:

    I would build one for under $1k, I would not buy one for the $5k they want

    I have a local dealer that is selling them with a design of your choice on the cabinet. They will preload 25 games and have options for game storage of up to 250+. The cost is $4199.99, which is less than a new Stern from Best Buy. I think the price is fair since I don't carry the expertise of building one myself.


    2 years, 6 months ago
    #

    Ya some people sell them from $5-8k. Which is a little much unless it is 46" led quality tv PF and full setup for pc, nudge, lighting etc. I've spent $1k so far on 3 tv/monitors, 42" led PF 1080p, 32" GB 720p, 17" lcd for DMD. And $1k on pc, 2500k i5 with SSD hdd, ram and huge video card. So I figure I'll drop another $500-$1k on wood, legs, plunger, buttons etc. You can spend whatever you want though. Like until thats finished, I play on my laptop. Software is all free, so its just hardware costs. You can also buy premade cabinets, reuse a real pin cabinet, or make your own. For a serious pinhead it probably cannot be your only pin. A real pin is just that, authentic and amazing. But a virtual one will compliment a collection nicely and satisfy your need of buying a pin you can't afford or just want to try.


    2 years, 6 months ago
    #

    They are no fun to play if you have already played the real thing. I see one use for them. If you just bought a pin you're not familiar with and you're not sure everything is working 100% the way it should then you might find this out by playing its virtual pin. This is how I found out the basement lights on my Haunted House were not operating properly.


    2 years, 6 months ago
    #
    JDub1006 said:

    I have a local dealer that is selling them with a design of your choice on the cabinet. They will preload 25 games and have options for game storage of up to 250+. The cost is $4199.99, which is less than a new Stern from Best Buy. I think the price is fair since I don't carry the expertise of building one myself.

    $4k?! I understand there is labor, but wow. Like I said the software is free, so you can have 1 to over 1000 tables, you just have to download them from the visual pin website. The hardest part of the build, imo, is configuring the pc and monitors to show the table, dmd and rom properly. I mean if when I finish mine and its very well done, I could see charging $4k. But EVERY premade cabinet I've seen for sale, has had a crappy pc in it and the plunger/nudge functionality is meh. So if you dont want to build or configure anything, sure I can see it being a deal. But watch out for what you get.

    OH and you can also connect the coin door to make it fully functional...which would be fun when your friends come over hahha...gotta have quarters to enter this house :-p


    2 years, 6 months ago
    #
    northvibe said:

    OH and you can also connect the coin door to make it fully functional...which would be fun when your friends come over hahha...gotta have quarters to enter this house

    so in that case, that's what places need out on route. A machine that can't break or get dirty by every little thing. If this picked up in popularity, it would make emulation better and effectively kill pinball except for us entheusiasts. At the same time, that's the way everything is going. People don't need real things. from vinyl to cd's to mp3's, vhs to dvd to netflix instant.

    Pinball to full size virtual pinball.. it just makes sense in it's own depressing way.


    2 years, 6 months ago
    #

    As an addition to a game room with other pins, sure. As a replacement for? One word: abomination.


    2 years, 6 months ago
    #

    I am thinking of doing the same. The number pins I can have is based on the house we buy. With the max being 5. So I am seriously thinking of making a vpin to supplement space/money restrictions. I originally found out about it and told a friend of mine that's into arcade games about it. He wanted to build one, but before he could he got his first real pin from me. Now he is hooked and no longer cares about vpin.


    2 years, 6 months ago
    #

    I love it - that's why I have built 4 - each one trying to be better than the last. I have had people come to play and enjoy it, and others that didn't. I think that you need to try before you buy, or build a test rig and see if you enjoy it. It would be hard to sell a $4200 machine, as it is more of a niche' market. If you try it and you like it, then you know what you are getting into.

    I built this 3 Monitor setup with a 40" LED @ the 3K range: » YouTube video


    2 years, 6 months ago
    #

    Where is the best place to get parts to build them? I will start a new thread and ask the question. I do not want to get this thread OT.


    2 years, 6 months ago
    #

    Nothing beats the real thing. While it is awesome to be able to play simulations of all the greats the feel is just not there. Just my 2 cents..


    2 years, 6 months ago
    #
    » YouTube video

    Two words: That's AWESOME!


    2 years, 6 months ago
    #
    The_Dude_Abides said:

    Nothing beats the real thing. While it is awesome to be able to play simulations of all the greats the feel is just not there. Just my 2 cents..

    What better way to show the younger generation the difference than adding one to a large collection? If I were to add one and the kids played them side by side, they would see the v-world is not as exciting as the real one. Thats all I am saying. I would never get rid of all my machines.


    2 years, 6 months ago
    #
    absocountry2 said:

    Where is the best place to get parts to build them? I will start a new thread and ask the question. I do not want to get this thread OT.

    Lots of online stores, but this is one off the top of my head:
    http://www.pinballlife.com/


    2 years, 6 months ago
    #
    absocountry2 said:

    What better way to show the younger generation the difference than adding one to a large collection?

    No doubt, not disagreeing with you there and with an amazingly large collection as yours adding one would be like a cherry on top.


    2 years, 6 months ago
    #
    absocountry2 said:

    they would see the v-world is not as exciting as the real one

    That is true - Everyone that comes, when I had real pins, would perfer to play the "Real Deal". The beauty of a Virtual Pin, is that you have many-in-one. You also have big "Bragging Rights" if you built it yourself

    JDub1006 said:

    Two words: That's AWESOME!

    Big THANKS


    2 years, 6 months ago
    #
    JDub1006 said:

    LOL, Don't hold back, give it to me straight

    Heck, after looking at all of the pictures....I may even AGREE with you. (straight up!)


    2 years, 6 months ago
    #

    Has anyone experimented with using a Wii or Xbox Kinect sensor for vision tracking in a virtual pinball machine? Check out » YouTube video

    It's pretty compelling. The effect of bobbing your head around and the perspective on the play field slightly moving would be incredible.


    2 years, 6 months ago
    #

    I grew up in the EM era and love all pinball,But virtual pinball just did not feel right to me.I would never get 1 unless it was to trade it for a real pinball machine.


    2 years, 6 months ago
    #

    I think they're pretty cool but if they really caught on would they bring pinball prices down like Multicade boards did to classic arcade games? But then again maybe that would be a good thing for those of us who aren't that financially proficient........


    2 years, 6 months ago
    #

    People make the mistake of comparing a virtual pinball with a real one. NOT THE SAME. That is not necessarily a bad thing.

    A virtual pinball is a GREAT video game, but is NOT a pinball. Just like a blow-up doll is not a real girlfriend no matter how lifelike it looks. (Even with a nag chip enabled.)

    I realize it is heresy, but a gameroom can have other fun things in it besides just pinball machines. Jukeboxes, video machines, virtual pins, diversify your collection and give visitors a different option for entertainment.


    2 years, 6 months ago
    #

    I have a ton of tables for Future pinball / Visual Pinball on my mame cab. Although I do like playing them once in awhile, the physics are WAY off. I like to use them to learn the rules, and try new tables that I may never get to play.

    I would NEVER buy a virtual pinball, it would take up to much valuable normal pinball space, and they just don't play very good for the most part...


    2 years, 6 months ago
    #
    jimjim66 said:

    A virtual pinball is a GREAT video game, but is NOT a pinball. Just like a blow-up doll is not a real girlfriend no matter how lifelike it looks. (Even with a nag chip enabled.)

    LOL That is too funny


    2 years, 6 months ago
    #
    tomdotcom said:

    the physics are WAY off

    I'm confused how people making more machines like this and continuing to use software of this sort won't improve the software eventually.

    Atari Video Pinball didn't have the best physics, but comparitively, Williams hall of fame is quite good (not perfect) with physics. If people are still demanding the video game, the physics will get better as time goes on, and those with the cabs are able to update the software I assume, they are just computers that can connect to the net right?

    On that same note, the flatness of the graphics could be improved on already. Williams hall of fame came out for the Nintendo 3ds. 3d effects without glasses. That's where we're going.

    I may be holding off long enough to get the hologram table with touchscreen controls though. My income isn't near what some people on here have.


    2 years, 6 months ago
    #

    I'm having one built right now. Includes a top of the line 42 LED playfield in a widebody cab (plus two other quality monitors), a nearly top of the line PC, a lighting system (3 RGB and two flasher strobes), and a force feedback package (shaker motor and 8 contractors tied to flippers, bumpers, and slingshots). I came to pinball by way of video games, so I don't have the strong preference for the real machine feel that others do. Still, I spend about 25 dollars a month pumping quarters into local machines.

    I think claims that they play nothing like the real thing are overblown. Much of it depends on the table author. I play the VP versions and real versions of Scared Stiff, Simpsons Pinball Party, LotR, and Cirqus Voltaire regularly and the skills and strategies I develop from one mostly map to the other. In terms of appearance, they look similar (except for the true 3D of course ). In terms of sound, they are exactly the same. I would say that I get the expected reactions in the VP versions in terms of behavior about 75% of the time. It's overall just less variable and therefore easier, though there is significant variation in ball reactions. The modeling has only gotten better over time and will continue to do so. May not be exactly the same as a real machine, but still fun.

    If you don't dig it, that's fine. But to call the virtual cabinets abominations or affronts to real pinball is ridiculous and disrespectful of the massive amount of skill and ingenuity that has gone into getting the virtual hobby to this point. What's more, people don't realize that the virtual hobby can lead to the purchase of real machines and the support of an industry that otherwise wouldn't be there. I plan to purchase my first machine, a recently produced new in box one, next year (assuming my wife gets the job she's eyeing up!). If I couldn't play all the classics in VP, I might otherwise spend all my money trying to acquire machines produced by long defunct companies, which I don't really think is the best way to keep this thing going.


    2 years, 6 months ago
    #
    Blakesell said:

    Williams hall of fame is quite good (not perfect) with physics.

    I just played it for the first time last weekend on the Xbox360. It was okay....I have played Tales of the Arabian Nights about 250 times and found it to be pretty accurate but Taxi was way, way, way too easy.

    Just a funny note...Pinbot drained as much on the left side as it normally does!!!!


    2 years, 6 months ago
    #

    As an addendum, I actually think the thing VP has most trouble fully emulating is table lighting. I love the light shows of real machines.


    2 years, 6 months ago
    #

    I've done just as well on Taxi in real life.. I've also had my arse handed to me. I've done better on TOTAN in real life, but on both I only GOT to the genie, I didn't BEAT the genie.

    I've crashed taxi on williams, that never happened on the real pin for me.

    I'm really on my soapbox for technology lately, but I do have a real pin and want more of them. My ideas just delegate real machines to collectors and making cheaper technology for the vendors. Unfortunately while driving up the prices on real machines I would assume. Arcade games aren't doing exactly well out in the wild either.


    2 years, 6 months ago
    #
    Blakesell said:

    Arcade games aren't doing exactly well out in the wild either.

    I noticed that as well. While pins go up in price you can pick up a popular arcade game for $300-500.

    My whole point with this was I would be able to play games like MM, TOTAN, TAF and TZ without paying big bucks or getting rid of my old favorites due to room in the basement (Or try to tell my wife that a pin would look great in the sitting room or bedroom).


    2 years, 6 months ago
    #
    aingide said:

    It's pretty compelling. The effect of bobbing your head around and the perspective on the play field slightly moving would be incredible.

    That could be interesting


    2 years, 6 months ago
    #
    absocountry2 said:

    aingide said:

    It's pretty compelling. The effect of bobbing your head around and the perspective on the play field slightly moving would be incredible.
    That could be interesting

    +1
    That video looked awesome

    NickWar said:

    I'm having one built right now

    Which site is doing it? Jack's, Noah's, or Local to you Person?
    Sounds like you are doing widebody, with the 42" inside the cabinet.
    I just got done with the 40" on the rails of a standard size.

    Blakesell said:

    and those with the cabs are able to update the software I assume, they are just computers that can connect to the net right

    Yes, they are high end computers. I don't hook mine up to the net*, but yes I do update software all the time. I add tables, install new software, etc.. through the USB.

    *Internet capable, but to keep resource usage low, no Virus software, no Firewall, No auto-update Software - period. I don't really update windows, since most of the time, they are virus patches, that will only use resources, and I don't have to worry about viruses, if I stay offlin. This means: keep it offline, and stay safe.

    For an example of table install, No Fear was released today: » YouTube video


    2 years, 6 months ago
    #
    boogies said:

    Which site is doing it? Jack's, Noah's, or Local to you Person?
    Sounds like you are doing widebody, with the 42" inside the cabinet.

    Not local to me. It's one of the more prolific builders on the VP and Hyperpin forums. Yes, it is a widebody with the 42 recessed. Noah's pins look great though. I also spoke to Jack when I was shopping around. What a great guy. He gave me plenty of advice even after it was clear I wasn't going to buy from him.

    I do want to build one, but am not very skilled at woodworking or electrical. I wanted something that looked and played great so I could enjoy it now. I will learn from it for sure when working out my first build (which will most likely be a minipin with none of the extras as an eventual gift for a friend).



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