Might I suggest not shooting the ramps? That'd probably help you a great deal.

4x drones seems cruel. I don't ever expect to see DoDMB. I did complete Jericho once, but don't know if I can even do that again.

So is DoDMB different than regular Do or Die? I haven't played a whole lot of IM, but I know I've hit DoD.

If they are same, what's the legit way to achieve this? I thought it was just completing all characters on one ball?

Read the OP's post (or at least the first couple paragraphs) again. It's very different and much more difficult than getting DoD.

Is DOD multiball the new Valinor?

For a 'shallow' game IM has a heck of a lot going for it

IM is pure genius.

+1

Okay, I see, regular DoD is all characters lit, DoDMB is all characters flashing. Right?

Holy S!%$, that's crazy.

I have gotten do or die several times, but dodmb, I didn't even know existed.......crazy, you are right, that would be a lucky ball if it didn't nose dive the outlanes

Great thread. Thank you. IM is One of my favorites and as good a game I'll have, the dodmb seems unicorn like on a three ball game. Thanks for the map and I will try. Now I have to avoid the ramps also known as a second to breathe

Ive owned IM since january, Ive completed the DoD jackpot 4-5 times or so? Man that feels sweet! Then its right on to Jericho. I have jericho set to ball carry over, yes I know thats cheating.....dont hate!

WTB - IM

While that may be true, IM and LOTR are very different games built during very different times. LOTR was built when Stern was just getting their legs under them. IM (and BBH) were built as a last gasp effort to increase location sales with shorter ball times. After that experiment (too little too late), they went on to embrace the home buyer with Avatar LE and all the other LE's.

Besides, how hard it is to get to a wiz mode doesn't say anything about how good the game is. IJ4's wiz mode will take you at least 45 minutes of plowing through requirements before you get there. Doesn't make it a good game or wiz mode.

Some games the wiz mode doesn't matter anyway. My favorite Stern, FGY, is a good example. TV mini wiz mode is one of the best wiz modes ever (mini or otherwise). That's the only goal I have when I start a game. (it's also very lucrative points-wise for those who would accuse me of being a mode player). I can't even remember the name of the final wiz mode without looking it up. Doesn't matter. Same goes for DOD MB. IM is a classic 'one ball game'. At the start of every ball, your goal is to reach DOD and Jericho. If you don't, you (figuratively) start all over on the next ball.

Last night I got Do or Die then shortly after went into Jericho. I then drained really fast (lots of swearing) and then on my next ball, I was still in Jericho. Is that how it's supposed to work?

I've only completed 3 of the 5 inserts. I've never heard of anyone getting to Do or Die MB.

+2

Pinballcorpse, can you tell me exactly what qualifies for a Super Jackpot in War Machine and Whiplash? I know when I get into those modes that I need to complete something, but I'm never sure of exactly what it is, often because I try to stack them as best as possible with other stuff at the same time (IE Bogey -> Whiplash -> War Machine).

I've messed a little with the game with the glass off to try to tell, but I feel like that is cheating and I'd rather talk with someone who knows

One other question - Something I've noticed with mine is that the Whiplash targets also award letters toward IRON. It seems that it starts with N and works it's way backwards. I have even been able to start Iron Man scoring from those targets. Is this normal behavior? If so, does anyone know the progression that it is actually doing?

Also, Pinballcorpse, would it also be worthwhile on a DODMB trek to avoid lighting all of the roll overs at the same time, and actually actively try to not achieve them, to prolong Jericho?

You only restart DOD, not Jericho qualifying. And DOD multiball qualifications don't reset either if they're flashing. The only thing on Iron Man that is one ball related is the Do or Die hurryup miniwizard. I think I just had this discussion in another thread, there's this weird notion that Iron Man is only a one ball game when it really isn't any more than any other game...is st:tng a one ball game because the warp modes reset back to 1 on the next ball? It's exactly the same thing.

Same here. War Machine, Whiplash and Monger (got whiplash and war machine during the same stacked mb). Never finished any of the others, let alone during the same game. I like Jericho carryover because you have a chance at 50M. You don't ever have a chance at DODMB, so forget about it.

By saying 'Sorry KEF...', you seemed to imply that DOD MB was a better goal than Valinor because it's harder to reach. I just pointed out that the payoff isn't always worth the journey. Being harder doesn't always mean being better.

IM and LOTR are polar opposites. Both are great examples of their time. If you could only own two games and had those two, life could be a lot worse.

You quoted it, but I don't think it sunk in...

I'm well aware of the rules. It's still a one ball game. On STTNG, you progress through the modes towards the wiz mode with each ball. With IM, you try to reach the wiz mode every ball. That's not a bad thing. In fact, in IM's case, that's half the attraction.

To take it a step further, IM is a one ball game in a good way. Another Stern pin, POTC, is a one ball game in a bad way. On Pirates, the ball when you collect max jackpot is just about always your one and only good ball. With IM, any or all of the three balls can be your 'good ball'.

There are deeper strategies for both of course, but generally speaking, being a one ball game isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Do you own Iron Man? As unless you're a top 1% player, it's very hard to get Do or Die in one ball consistently on factory outlanes and settings. Jericho is 'reachable' goal though. And you approach it just like you would getting to final frontier on st:tng, I try and play as many modes as possible to get there, regardless of whether it's on one ball or not since it doesn't matter if you do it on one ball or not on either game. You need 5 modes + lanes to get there, not much different than the 7 modes st:tng needs. When I start IM, I'm trying to get to Jericho, as it's a pretty awesome wizard mode...Do or Die just happens along the way sometimes. Regardless of whether I'm thinking figuratively or literally, it's the same. Plus the fact that Jericho is a much better mode (30 shots to complete or so) with a bigger payoff (50 mil) than the one shot and 35 mil of Do or Die makes it the more fun thing to go for (for me anyways).

(None taken.)

My only response would be harder isn't always better. In fact, I would argue that DODMB is stupid. Before everyone gets all bent out of shape, please realize I had this opinion long before JJP was a reality, and I'm pretty sure Stern isn't making any more Iron Mans (but I don't know that for a fact).

Making something ridiculously arbitrarily hard (4 drones sets) is not good game design. At least, I assume there's no real reason for that requirement other than some number pulled out of the air. Iron Man letters make sense, there's 3 different awards, so you saw all of them. Similar with super jackpot awards, they mark an end to a multiball. But having to do almost anything so many times for no reason is just irksome. It's work. It's not fun (at least I've never considered work fun).

At any rate, it's just silly. A lot of people consider Valinor to be "silly-hard" to get to, but, to me anyway, all the objectives make sense. You basically have to play through the entire game to get to the end. Skillful play makes the journey much shorter. The same can't be said for DODMB, at least in terms of the drone targets. It would kind of be like if I said instead of playing the whole game to get to valinor, you had to destroy the ring successfully 5 times. Guess what, that's a boatload harder than doing 4 drones sets, but it's stupid busywork; it doesn't advance the game. It's just arbitrarily difficult.

"Blah blah blah Keith, what would you have done?"

I guess I would've either used the ramps instead of drones (two reasons: ramps aren't needed otherwise, and I feel that's stupid (btw, my requirement for bogey flashing would be something like making a 1M shot during the mode); war machine implies drones, so why are you using 2 inserts for one task), or at least done some kind of game with the drones to make it better. Something like one drone target is always flashing, and if you always only hit the flashing one, then the light flashes instead of goes solid. That doesn't sound so hard, but that's not trivial either. And it's certainly far more interesting than 4 sets of targets IMNSHO.

Just some food for thought by someone that has played a lot of pinball and thought a lot about rules and wasn't in the pinball industry at the time of this game.

Other than the ridiculous requirements for DOD MB and simple rules, do you enjoy playing IM Keith?

TBH no I generally loathe having to play it in a tournament. Just because I don't like it, though, doesn't mean that I can't play it. I hate BSD too but I doubt too many people would want to place a wager on a game with me.

Yes. Yes, it is stupid.

Yes. Yes, it is bad game design.

Yes. Yes, it does.

This is why I can't wait to see the rules for WOZ...you get it. Rules should make sense. I have to disagree on the statement that IM is not enjoyable though. IM is pretty fun, but I'd wager my house that if you had coded it, it would be much better.

I agree with this.

I can go on and on about why I absolutely love IMs rules, and although the ramps aren't used for anything but Bogey and jackpot shots in certain MBs, I'm fine with that because it gives you SUCH different strategies to use when you're playing it versus people versus trying to set the high score, but I'll concede two code issues that I really wish were slightly different...

The first is I wish if you didn't touch the flippers, you could earn a super-skill shot by landing the ball in the right roll-over. Or, but holding a flipper, it would lower the orbit thing in the top and would open up another shot for a super skill shot. As it is, the skill shot is really not interesting at all, unless you have one of the later machines where they put weaker springs on it so the ball doesn't always make it to the top... but that feels kind of cheap.

The second is the requirements for DODMB seem a little screwy. I wish the DMD gave instructions on exactly what you were doing for both War Machine and Whiplash to score the super jackpot, as a couple times I've done it, and a whole lot more I'm sitting there trying to figure out what to do and not achieving it because I actually don't know what to do, and that the Drones goal was changed up.

I have made everything flash at one time or another... Iron Man perhaps because my machine is doing something wonky with the Whiplash targets which helps (I'll have to look into that now...), War Machine and Whiplash randomly, and Monger regularly... but never Drones. I like Keith's idea that one of them would be flashing and you'd need to hit that one in order to make it flash, but I also think that three times through would be a lot more fair. You start with three lit at once, move to two lit, and then complete it with one lit... I honestly don't know what happens after that, but it seems like that is where the progression ends.

I'm cool with DODMB as the ultimate goal on the machine, but I also know that unless I've got the glass off, I'm never going to see it... and that's all right too, but I do wish Drones weren't quite as crazy to try to get.

For those saying that regular Do Or Die is the main Wizard mode by the way, I completely disagree. Jericho is the main Wizard Mode, and DOD is a huge hurry up for accomplishing a lot of tasks. I think that people think of DOD as the Wizard because it comes after completing the modes, but can there really be a Wizard mode that is just one shot? You have to think of how you play the game in different terms - completing the Marks is the "mode progression" toward the wizard mode, even though there is a variety of ways to do that.

Sounds like there are a lot of good ideas on how to improve code on IM. Are we dreaming to think there would EVER be a code update?

Im good with the IM code, let them concentrate on xmen or transformers.....

+1

For what it is worth DODMB is so hard that I do not think it is a realistic goal for me to shoot for on my IM; I agree that there are some potential spots for improvement in the code (earnable EB, skill shot that requires skill etc...) and it would be nice if there was a more achievable "super" wizard mode/reward.

I am also not really working towards valinor on my LoTR, I have no interest in standing there for 1.5 hours. I take the challenges as they come up and try my best on each mode/multiball.

That does not stop me from enjoying my IM or LoTR, they are both great games. I just put about 2-5 games on my IM for every LotR (LoTR isn't the best when you are also child minding!).

For my tastes IM has always been a location game, and as long as the tilt isn't set ridiculously tight it's perfect for dropping a few bucks into. It is really a game that's built for nudging so when I run into one set up with big outlanes and a tight tilt I move on. The ideal setup is one that will allow some nudging and let me get away with one death save.

IM does fantastic on location so I hear.

And those who own it seem to play 1000's of games and still not want to sell them. On my list.

I play my IM every day, at least 20 games or so a day. It is a much deeper game than most give it credit for and one of Sterns best imo but I am biased beacuse I own one and love it.
I have got Jericho and Do or Die on one ball but I doubt it very much that I will ever see DODMB on 3 ball factory settings.
Maybe one day I might get there, I will keep trying.

I'd be okay with this if it was the 2nd set of drones. I generally dislike extra balls and turn them off, but if it is something really hard to get (unlike, say, JP where it is sort of at random), then it would be worthy of maybe keeping it on for.

Having said that, I do not need a code update for IM to like it as much as I do. In my opinion, DODMB is a sort of mythical thing that I doubt I'll ever get - but it gives me another way to play to try to beat the game. Those of you saying that the game needs another Super Wizard mode, but an easier one - the game already has two, and Jericho is really hard to make it through. I'd say it's definitely there.

If a code update came, I could rattle off about a half dozen little things that would make it better, but it won't move from the spot of "my favorite game ever" without one. I've never liked a game so much - I knew two games in that it was one of my favorite games ever. It just does everything that I want in a game, and that's amazing.

I just finished a game where i started jericho but did not complete it. I collected the whiplash and iron monger super jackpots and those remained blinking on the next ball. I wonder if this is a software update from when this thread was posted or what? Anyhow, it makes the Do or Die Multiball somewhat more obtainable than originally thought.

No, Whiplash and Iron Monger aren't the issue, it's the number of drones and iron man targets that you have to collect that's the issue. Do or Die Multiball is still about impossible on factory.