Hi guys
Anyone have or done a U20 trace connection diagram that can be readable for a noob guy?, Will be usefull to DMM that all traces are good, already found some broken ones and fixed, but is very hard to guess where everything goes.
Hi guys
Anyone have or done a U20 trace connection diagram that can be readable for a noob guy?, Will be usefull to DMM that all traces are good, already found some broken ones and fixed, but is very hard to guess where everything goes.
Hi John
Exactly. A barebone board that shows all traces, but this really doesn't help, will be good to have complete barebone board photo in high resolution? Then can show clearly everything where it goes.
Quoted from demetris74:Hi John
Exactly. A barebone board that shows all traces, but this really doesn't help, will be good to have complete barebone board photo in high resolution? Then can show clearly everything where it goes.
Would be better if you learned how to read the schematic, so the next time you need something, it's at your fingertips.
Hi John
Sure is better but since the schematic is more technical electronics i am not an electronic guy, just wanted to see if there is something like what ZAZA send, which is more understandable for us noobs.
thanks Zaza once again
I like it!
It's a bit tough to understand the color coding, even with the "key", but that may be because I'm viewing it on an iPad mini and the image has been compressed.
This would be a good addition to the PinWiki.
I can help get it published there is you'd consent.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info
This is Awesome, Thank you so much !! This will be posted above my soldering station for reference from now on, can't wait for future ones
arent a lot of wpc board schematics riddled with errors? it gets to the point you dont know what to trust. also, its not a direct connection from the header pins to the chip legs, there are other components involved. those photos dont help much, as the traces are cut off on the pics.
Quoted from pinnut:arent a lot of wpc board schematics riddled with errors? it gets to the point you dont know what to trust. also, its not a direct connection from the header pins to the chip legs, there are other components involved. those photos dont help much, as the traces are cut off on the pics.
There are a few errors...but the schems are generally reliable. "Riddled" is overstated.
You do have to ensure you have the schems that match the board revision.
The pics on the pin enthusiast site have helped me in the past to ensure I have good connections cleaning up "hacks" from prior poor repairs. If you are looking for a continuity map across the board, something like Zaza is building should help folks that think visually. If you think more textually, a connection table might help more.
I like the variety of info to work with.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info
Quoted from ChrisHibler:This would be a good addition to the PinWiki.
I can help get it published there is you'd consent.
Would be great!
Quoted from pinnut:arent a lot of wpc board schematics riddled with errors?
The only major error I ever saw with the WPC schematics was the switch matrix. They have some of the pins of the 339's mislabeled in a few areas. However, the switch matrix on the security board is the same wiring and has the correct pins.
I will just say, you can't fix a WPC board without knowing how to at least read a schematic. There are lots of components involved in areas that you can't see by looking at a connection diagram. If you've got a pull-up resistor bad...you're not going to be able to easily tell where you might have a problem. You could be measuring traces when you're not even anywhere close.
Quoted from ChrisHibler:cleaning up "hacks" from prior poor repairs
Every once in a while I came across a board an owner tried to fix; and they had no knowledge of electronics or schematics...and didn't see why they didn't need one. All they did was make a major mess of a board.
Quoted from demetris74:Sure is better but since the schematic is more technical electronics i am not an electronic guy just wanted to see if there is something like what ZAZA send, which is more understandable for us noobs.
Sadly...that's not how electronics work. The non-technical stuff for newbies won't help you diagnose a machine. Sure, you can check traces and waste a lot of time doing it. Someone who knew how to read the schematic would be able to find the bad trace or component in a much shorter amount of time.
There have been some decent fakers guide for repairing some of the older boards...as someone with electronics knowledge I used them to get up to speed on the world of pinball boards...but I wouldn't rely on them without electronics knowledge.
Schematics are *easy* to read. People have no idea how easy they are to read. I learned when I was nine; it can't be that difficult.
The big picture, I checked it several times for errors but looks OK now.
Quoted from ChrisHibler:something like Zaza is building should help folks that think visually
I think you are right about that, although I can read schematics, these kind of pictures help me as an addition next to the schematics.
Chris H., You are free to publish it on PinWiki.
If someone has suggestions or additions, please tell me.
i had the image printed on a high quality printer at a graphics shop, and i must say, its very well done. much easier to see on paper than on a pc. kudos to the creator of it.
Thank you .
This picture is automatically compressed with uploading, the original is even better but also 3 times bigger file.
Will have to work on my website and post it there somewhere in the future.
zaza,
Thanks! I'd like to upload the full resolution image to the Wiki.
Can you email the image to me at: [email protected] ?
Thanks!
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info
Made some final changes, U14 corrected from LS37 to LS374 and changed text Q1 section into "coin acpt enable".
I will upload it to Chris H. so it can be found on the PinWiki when implemented.
To complete this picture, here is the diagram of the switch inputs with the corresponding colors.
In the pinball-manuals this picture is not entirely error-free, this one is clear and simple redrawn.
enjoy
Thanks Ingo, really appreciate you find this an awsome pic.,
The list with errors goes on and on at this page in the manual.
The individual comparators are so close drawn to each other, that it looks like all pin3 (+12V) and pin12 (GND) are connected to each other.
Also, J205 has only 5 of 12 pins correct in the manual, better skip this page
Well, as always, don't trust the manual and verify twice.
I'm sure these pictures will help a lot of people. Lot of time has spend in verifying schematics and board, buzzing with meter and scope, but even then a mistake is easy made.
Next picture will be an easy one I think, a balltrough PCB or so, and will get it's own topic instead of hijacking this one (sorry Demetris)
Awesome guys!
The new pic will go nicely with Clive's switch matrix explanation in the Wiki.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info
Quoted from zaza:Thanks Ingo, really appreciate you find this an awsome pic.,
The list with errors goes on and on at this page in the manual.
The individual comparators are so close drawn to each other, that it looks like all pin3 (+12V) and pin12 (GND) are connected to each other.
Also, J205 has only 5 of 12 pins correct in the manual, better skip this page
Well, as always, don't trust the manual and verify twice.
I'm sure these pictures will help a lot of people. Lot of time has spend in verifying schematics and board, buzzing with meter and scope, but even then a mistake is easy made.
Next picture will be an easy one I think, a balltrough PCB or so, and will get it's own topic instead of hijacking this one (sorry Demetris)
If I had a list of all known errors in the schematic, I would like, to draw a complete new schematic for the pinball community, so that we finally had a reliable source of schematics for repairing the WPC-MPU.
So lets make a list of all known errors and I will draw the schematics new - a few minutes ago, I found a new error, U16 and U17 - GND and V+ are wrong connected - how horrible wrong are these schematics.
Off Topic:
I found a little grafic, I made a few years ago for the MPU Diagnostic LEDs. See here:
@Chris Hibler: feel free, to put this on 4.1 in pinwiki, if you want.
- Ingo
Hi Ingo.
Very nice. I'd love to see this project proceed.
Regarding the blanking circuit notation in the upper/right corner, if the LED remains on, this means that the software/hardware has detected a problem and is preventing game operation by "blanking" all CPU controlled functions. It's not really a problem with the blanking circuit. The blanking circuit is a good thing in this case.
Regards.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info
Quoted from ChrisHibler:Hi Ingo.
Very nice. I'd love to see this project proceed.
Regarding the blanking circuit notation in the upper/right corner, if the LED remains on, this means that the software/hardware has detected a problem and is preventing game operation by "blanking" all CPU controlled functions. It's not really a problem with the blanking circuit. The blanking circuit is a good thing in this case.
Regards.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info
Thanks for the hint Chris, in deed, this is expressed very misleading. This is better:
To redraw the complete schematics, I need a bit help from the community. I need all hints to known errrors up to now, otherwise it will last much langer, because I must measure a complete CPU board.
- Ingo
Added graphic to the Wiki. Thanks!
I only have one error that I recall, and that's placement of C9 on the WPC-089 power/driver board. I've documented that one in the Wiki. There are others...we know.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info
Quoted from ChrisHibler:Added graphic to the Wiki. Thanks!
I only have one error that I recall, and that's placement of C9 on the WPC-089 power/driver board. I've documented that one in the Wiki. There are others...we know.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info
Oops - you put the wrong one to the Wiki ... the second one is the one, that is corrected ...
- Ingo
Doh!
Fixed. Thanks Ingo.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info
Nice work, Ingo but you need a lot of time and patience.
Quoted from zaza:The individual comparators are so close drawn to each other, that it looks like all pin3 (+12V) and pin12 (GND) are connected to each other.
Quoted from german-pinball:- a few minutes ago, I found a new error, U16 and U17 - GND and V+ are wrong connected -
I think all the pin 3 + 12 of LM339's shouldn't have been drawn in the picture at all, in the schematic-manual the power pin connections of the IC's are already mentioned in the upper right corner.
Thanks again ZAZA, your switch matrix diagram helped me fix another cpu board that I had not been able to figure out !!
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