Never a big fan of this maud...too chatty.

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Let me just clarify that this is MY opinion. The strobing doesn't bother me, it is the look of LEDs and how bright they are. Between incandescents and LEDs I find it much easier to follow the ball with incandescents.

Most of the add-on toys/figurines look stupid, and alot of people really make their pins look worse with LED's. LED LED LED LED, sometimes I'm sick of hearing the word. Newbie pin people are especially attracted to LED LED LED's haha...

I have LED's in some of my pins, but I use them very sparingly and artistically

I agree with tomdotcom, my IM is full leds as it suits the game and era of release, where in my creature I use a few coloured leds to add some colour but have left some standard globes for the classic warmth. So leds are cool and can add some colour to a playfield making it different to a stock standard.

Also I have mirror blades in a IM, which when you are playing a machine is not distracting as you are looking down on the playfield and they actual enhance the machine especially in a dark lit area of the house. For the spectator I can see how it could be distracting viewing the machine at a angle and distracting ones view.

What are people's thoughts of the AC/DC le's as they are now like pimped out machines as well as the LE WOZ's? I think it will be the future of machines - like putting a set of mags on your car - personalising it a little.

Vouching for Vince on his coin door mod. Mousin' Around gave me a hummer at Expo 2010

Post of the week!

If you are not bothered by "strobing" with LEDs, then how can the ball being lit brighter make it more difficult for you to follow the ball? I would think it would be *easier*.

LMAO! AWESOME!!!

Does anyone really want/need inserts any brighter than this

Hmmm...I like this better

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This is amazing everyone has there own opinion omg what has the world come too LMFAO

Flipper Fidelity speaker kit best mod....and everything else is in the eye of the beholder

Well put Gambit. I agree.

As for TheKorn I think you should have ground effects on the floor, spotlights crossing over the header aimed at the ceiling and switches so instead of nudging or tilting you have secondary buttons for leg hydraulics. Then it would be over the top. This just makes me wonder lol does it tickle when you turn the bass up..... TMI don't answer that last one.

??

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Dirty pool old man...I like it.

The mod to the title of the thread.

I have the replacement Romulan and Klingon ships for my STTNG and also laser cannons. They fit in quite nice, I think.

This Tron mod for the backglass is cool.

The music is not, however.

it is the worst music for a maude vid.

ahahhahahhahhahaha

are we going to vote if we are changing the spelling of mod to maude?

Sorry, this one takes the cake.

I love the mirror blades...

I tried the felt and it made a mess--the felt made the playfield just wide enough that it would contact the mirror blade and then the sticky-backed felt would curl and peel off and leave glue residue on the blade. I finally removed all the felt and the playfield comes up easily with no contact--just gotta be careful.

My experience has been that when the ball travels over an LEDed insert the brightness of the LED makes the ball harder to follow. I played an AFM LEDed and was near TA so obviously a lot of inserts were lit. The game was decently fast and it was painful to look at the playfield. There is a crispness to an incandescent that is simply better for pinball, IMO of course, and an LED wanes out the pin making it harder to watch the ball.

Look, this was a thread about peoples opinions about mods. I hate LEDs, you love them? Great. I was just expressing my opinion about how utterly horrible LEDs affect the playability of pins. People want to throw their money away with this crap more power to them.

I do use LED's mostly AND colored incandescent bulbs when necessary.
There is always a "right" and a "wrong" way to do LED's and I agree with TaylorVA that the majority of machines usually get the standard "kit" and never really bother to address the games lighting sequences.
Just yesterday I played a horrible example of an SM with LED's in it... By the time the ball reached the slings I was seeing triple! It wasn't the inserts that were causing it, it was the cool white GI under the slings! Talk about WTF?!?
I'm guessing that it was some older LED's, or just some single output wide angled bulbs that were casting unnatural shadows.
Either way, they were terrible...
It made playing SM almost impossible.
So I feel ya' Taylor on that one.

I'd be happy to let you play any of my LED'd machines Taylor to give LED's another chance.

Bottom line... Don't buy the stock "super/ablaze" kits!
Build your own, you'll be much happier with the results!

Same thing happened to me LOL.

If I'm not mistaken, the blades Joey sells for Stern games don't have to be permanently installed (with either a screw or double-sided 3M tape).

Instead, they can just be set in place and removed before the PF is raised.

Not sure if this is also true for B/W games or not.

That would be even more of a PITA.
Just use caution and make sure it's centered when you lift.
As for the permanence, yes you can use the 3M tape- I went with the bigger U-Glue strips because they are much easier to remove and don't take the black paint with it.
Either way, you don't need to use screws if you don't want to.

Yea, if LEDs are done right, it is not harder to follow the ball. I've seen these LED jobs where it looks like the ball is jerking as if it's a video running at 20 frames per second. Horrible. That's not how mine turn out. It takes a lot to get it right including adding a bunch of playfield spotlights that make the whole playfield glow. My games are more playable in the dark than stock games without LEDs.

Taylor, I have no problem at all with your opinion on this issue. Remember, I am one who does see strobe effect with certain LEDs if they are too bright, and I first experienced it in a bad way on the very pin that you give an example with too: AFM.

But it was the strobe effect that drove me crazy, not the brightness itself. The ball looked like it was "pulsing" as it moved across the playfield. This was caused by the LEDs in the inserts, just as you mention. It wasn't the GI. So I wonder if it isn't more the strobe effect that you were experiencing rather than just the brightness of the bulbs?

Yeah, that's exactly what I was getting at!!!
Thanks Markmon!
Much better imagery...

That is one of the better descriptions of the strobe effect that I've read.

I have this same problem with some games but not others. Does this effect vary from game to game or is it more related to what kinds of LEDs are used?

Also, I know one of the downfalls to LEDs is (or used to be?) the loss of lighting effects since they can't be dimmed as effectively as normal bulbs. I personally love creative lighting effects in pins and one of the reasons I've always shied away from LEDs is not wanting to lose that dimming effect. Have any of the new style LEDs addressed this, or is it still a trade-off to deal with? I admit I haven't kept up on LED technology, so I'm a bit clueless if the "on or off only" thing is still a problem or not.

I do like how tastefully done LEDs can enhance how a game looks, and I've been slowly coming around to the idea of experimenting more with them, but not at the expense of the "character" of the game.

I'd like to know the answer to that also. I ordered 20-30 LEDs from PBL a while back and didon't care for them. Ive never messed with them since. I want to, just haven't.

My "opinion" rant wasn't directed at you just those that take others opinions personally.

I may have played games with the strobing and that was the issue but it seems by people's description that it was something else. I frankly try to avoid them as I tend to get a headache from them.

I am sure there are LEDs that simulate incandescents but then I get back to my point of them being a waste of money. As far as making colorful effects, not my thing.

Wow. Everyone is so sensitive!!

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Lmao!

I have no idea why people take a negative opinion toward LEDs as a personal attack. I also think that in a lot of games LEDs suck. I did LED my Congo and Family Guy but inserts only. I think LEDs in the GI looks like crap 98 times out of 100.

Don't get me started on people use colored LEDs in the GI to completely change the look of the game. Purple GI, blue GI etc I just shake my head. As long as people don't actually believe LEDs add value to a game, it's an easy enough fix.

Problem with that is allot of new people do think it adds money. Its like buying a car with a nice stereo..I don't care take the Stereo out. 9 times out of ten they don't take it out and i don't pay extra either. Same applies to leds. But pinside is 85% new people to the hobby.

I think the green GI looks great on Congo. Adds to the jungle look. I don't think it changes the look of the game, but compliments it. If you used blue for GI on Congo, then I would protest with you. You can color theme LEDs and add to the coolness, or you can color theme and ruin it. How bout "gaudy LEDs, mismatched, and overdone" as a terrible maude.

In the case of TZ, I am in agreeance with many that dislike all the extra toys people install that just clutter the playfield. All my mods were below the surface so to speak, like the gumballs with gumball machine lighting, proto flashers for the gum and ball inserts, etc.

However, I did cave and buy the slot machine that sits on top of the habittrail over the slot kickout. I was just impressed with the fact that the reels turn when the ball passes through. Also the slot and piano locations are vital to completeing the door to play LITZ. I am now considering adding in the piano but it is pricey for a cut/drilled old McDonald's toy.

I've owned 2 TZs. One with just about every mod I've ever heard of, another with none. The TZ with no mods played far better. Most of the mods, besides looking like cheap crap, get in the way of seeing the ball. I had the clock out of the game to fix it, played a few games without the clock and it greatly improved my enjoyment of the game. The clock is useless and without it installed I could see the ball go around the loops and it helped me time the upper flipper shots easier. The game felt like it had more flow.

The two TZ mods that aren't bad are the gumballs and the piano mod. The piano shot looks so drab without the piano around it.

To an extent both.

Part of it has to do with using polarized and non-polarized leds. The cheap ones tend to be polarized. This means they flicker twice as fast and that tends to be what causes the strobing effect. I have a jp that can be tough to play in the dark because it is noticeable. On the other hand I have used the same bulbs (ablaze concave white) in other machines (some DE's) and had no issue.

It doesn't really seem to matter on inserts. It really seems to present itself in places where you are getting the light unfiltered through something (insert, flasher dome) like the GI or spot lights. In those places I recommend polarized bulbs. They tend to be a bit more expensive, but the difference is night and day. It may still very game to game though.

Properly done I find leds to add to the game, but more importantly for me to keep the heat down and make it bearable to have 3-4 games on in a small room.

It was a design challenge to myself. I've been dropping big subs (& amps & power supplies) in games since 2002, but it's always required cutting the cabinet quite a bit in order to get everything working right. (Why: http://www.thekorn.net/speakers/cutcabinet/ )

But I wanted to see if I could find a way where I could shoehorn as large of a sub as I could into a game WITHOUT radically modifying the cabinet. The only thing I could come up with is to lose the coin door and replace it.

Making the door clear and adding GAME CONTROLLED lights both in front of and behind the speaker, well that was just added pizzaz.

Actually, I've worked out a system where a game can auto-level and auto-pitch itself, even to the point where it can change the playfield pitch while playing. Stay tuned, it'll show up at a show eventually. (It's not hydraulic, far too messy and complicated!)

"Actually, I've worked out a system where a game can auto-level and auto-pitch itself, even to the point where it can change the playfield pitch while playing. Stay tuned, it'll show up at a show eventually."

Wow, so I'll be able to put a pin on that yacht I'm going to own some day?

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Wow, great thread, lots of very good points and information.

John Wart hit it on the head, the best mods are ones that either were cut from production originally or "look" like they should have been there from the factory. The piano and gumball light mods, fantastic! The rest of them for TZ.... really look out of place, cost lots of money and do not have any effect on the game(with the exception of the spiral ramp, which honestly I would have to play one with the ramp installed before I would have ever bought it as it looks like it really blocks the PF, but it could be really neat and ADD something to game play)

The deadworld mod for JD, that is a MUST have. It was cut from production and that is how the game was originally suppose to play. The balls falling out of the ring instead of locking in place is just silly, lock means lock, not spin 3 inches and drop back onto the field. When you have all three spinning in the ring and the arm picks them up and drops them into play, simply awesome!

I personally learned over modding on my TAF, which was my first real "A" title. I put a ton of maudes (LMAO) in and have slowly been removing them ever since. The safe?? Yea, that blocks the thing hand and actually takes away from the game, not add to it. It has been sitting in the cabinet for about two years now and I have no intention of returning it to the field. The polar bear, I like it, it matches the art in front of the ramp and does not block any view. Looks like it could have been there all along. Point is, very few mods look really good or add something to game play that should/could have been there from the factory, some are great, most do little or detract/block something else. Mauderation is key

Everyone is different and likes different things. IMO, few mods really have a "value" impact on price. Because one spends $1000 in mods by no means makes the game worth $1000 more, but will have some impact on the price. It may make it more desirable to some however and those some may be willing to pay more for it.

I love LED's....... In MODERATION. Color matched inserts, done properly, will make the inserts pop, give them wonderful color, not be too bright and make a difference on the heat generated by that string. I have had only a few really dark inserts that required a super bright, most of the time, the single led 170 degree concave lense will make the insert look fantastic and not be "too bright".

The "You are affected by strobing and I am not" statement is pretty selfish IMO. I have never had someone tell me that the incandescent lighting was effecting their ability to play the game, yet I have heard many people say "I can't play this game because I cannot see the ball with all the flashing from the LED's".

When the ball is reflecting so many flashes that it is like it just got out of a limo in a short dress on the night it "forgot" to wear panties at the oscars, that is too much. It makes the ball very hard to see and follow properly, that negatively affects game play for some and not for others. If I cannot see the ball and where it is going properly then it is reducing my ability to enjoy that game. It is clear that some people are not bothered by strobing and some are.

Mauderation is the key to use of LED's, I learned that on my TAF as well. All superbrights everywhere was nearly seizure inducing and had a negative impact on the game, at least for some, so I scaled them down to singles with incandescent in most of the G.I.(lower and mid PF) and it looks great, has plenty of light and I have never had a complaint since.

I think something most people over look is the lighting in their game room. Mine is very dim, so super brights all over the place DO make the game very hard to play, the entire room flashes and even affects people not playing. If I had a very well lit game room, the effect would be much less severe. I personally have found there is a happy medium mixing both LED's and incandescence, so much so, that most people would never even know I had LED's in the machine.

Yes LED's, as mentioned, do reduce heat/watts on the PCB's. If you only replaced 10-20% of the bulbs to LED's you will reduce the heat and extend the life of the PCB significantly. All bulbs do not have to be LED's to make a difference in the heat. Just going from 44's to 47's will make this difference as well.

Do what makes you happy and you like with your machines, just do not expect everyone to agree that your idea of how to apply maudes or LED's is appealing or enhancing. I am glad everyone like different things, I love seeing the different things people have done with their machines. Some I love and some I don't. Some I apply and some I won't. I am glad they are all a bit different, keeps it fresh, unique and interesting

I think it varies *greatly* from game to game. I as some people know have an issue with my left eye that makes it extremely light sensitive. Some games drive me nuts. Others, I think look outstanding with LEDs in them. In my basement, Viper Night Drivin' has LEDs, but Jurassic Park will never have LEDs because the ones that I have seen with them in don't work for me.

I tend to replace all of my flashers with LEDs and my backbox lights with LEDs to lower the heat and just in case they lock on, it won't ruin a playfield or translite. I did this with my JP, and it's honestly hard for me to play it even with the lights on. I think that the issue is totally dependent on how the game handles it's lighting effects.

Batman Forever looks outstanding with LEDs until it starts flashing like crazy when you get two balls locked, then it drove me absolutely nuts. Demolition Man looks WAY better than stock with LEDs installed.

I do like how tastefully done LEDs can enhance how a game looks, and I've been slowly coming around to the idea of experimenting more with them, but not at the expense of the "character" of the game.

I'd suggest experimenting with them on your new Demo Man. DM is one of the absolute best looking machines for LEDs out there. But avoid your new JP... or buy a few, put them in JP and see if you see what the problem is in that machine... or maybe you won't, in which case keep them there.

As for "mauds", I don't think that LEDs are really a maud anyway, as you're really not doing anything other than replacing one light with another, it is just a slightly different way that the light works. It would be like saying that the Ablaze lights aren't the same as the GE originals, so that is a mod. I'd also argue that anything that makes the game function in the same way isn't a mod -- you aren't modding the ball trough by putting in a Great Lakes Modular board, and you aren't modding the boardset by putting in a Rottendog board either. You're replacing components.

Mods are when you are physically altering something on the playfield to change it up. Of those, I really like how the gumballs look in the Gumball machine, and I pretty much like Uncle Lester in TAF's chair. I have the JD planet ring mod, although I don't like how it changes the game for multiplayer matches (but you can disconnect it for that). Oh, and the flashing lights for the AFM / RFM ships I feel like should have been there from the beginning, so I'm ALL for those. In fact, I thought they were there from the beginning. Beyond those, I can't think of much else I like.

Don't get me wrong, if you want to do that to your games, by all means do it! It's just for my own purposes, I like the stock games as stock games

What about the small switches on the mini PF? I think those are one of the best.

That's a good one for sure, really tightens the look up. How about a new lamp cover over the powerfield? With actual cut in words instead of a janky little sticker? Acceptable?