Star Trek (Pro)
Stern, 2013Quoted from donjagra:My $500 Comet is the best bang for the buck. How the hell is $5,000 a good deal? I hate the new pricing of this hobby.
Comet is great. But modern BftB has to go to WPT. Beats the HELL out of ST for thousands less.
Quoted from StevenP:OK, but each drop target is a unique/separate shot. You need 4 of a kind? Then you need to hit each of the 4 K targets. Etc. And picking off drop targets does require accuracy, more than hitting a too-wide ramp or orbit shot.
Agreed there, but then you might want to pick other games because WTP is a VERY unique game in modern times.
You did pick SM too, but that's a very highly rated game. Sorry, not trying to just poo poo everything you're saying. Take Tron, which is so goddamn basic it hurts, but decent rules make it a winner. POTC has maybe too many things going on....but I enjoy it also.
Quoted from donjagra:My $500 Comet is the best bang for the buck. How the hell is $5,000 a good deal? I hate the new pricing of this hobby. LONG LIVE BROKEDAD!
It is good for ops though. I have two games on location in a board game store, Star Trek Pro and Stargate. Star Trek made almost $100 since yesterday evening when in checked it until 4 pm today. Stargate made $2.00. I know that will taper off quite a bit, but most people would say Stargate is a great bang for the buck. In the home environment is it still a good deal? Highly debatable as you can see by this thread. That said I think it is a fantastic pin as is and it still has a lot of potential.
Quoted from TheLaw:Agreed there, but then you might want to pick other games because WTP is a VERY unique game in modern times.
You did pick SM too, but that's a very highly rated game. Sorry, not trying to just poo poo everything you're saying. Take Tron, which is so goddamn basic it hurts, but decent rules make it a winner. POTC has maybe too many things going on....but I enjoy it also.
OK, Tron then. Even that has more interactive stuff. (The lowering targets in front of the rotating disc, side scoop, thru-the-bumpers Lawloresque orbit shot.) OK, not a ton of stuff and I'm not a huge fan of Tron myself, but it is more interesting and varied than ST imo.
Quoted from RobT:I agree with you, but a lot of people won't.
Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy toys, but some people really seem to put way more emphasis on them than even makes sense. If it has more sh*t on it, it's got to be better, right? (I'm looking at you StevenP)
There are plenty of examples of great playing pins that have a pretty bare layout and few toys, including AFM, IM, and AC/DC.
I have to agree some pins that have too much going on in them with toys seem to rub me the wrong way. I'm a sucker for the open field fast pins with great flow. I know it's not everyones preference though for sure and can respect the fact that others will view it differently. Be boring if everyone liked the same things.
Quoted from StevenP:OK, Tron then. Even that has more interactive stuff. (The lowering targets in front of the rotating disc, side scoop, thru-the-bumpers Lawloresque orbit shot.) OK, not a ton of stuff and I'm not a huge fan of Tron myself, but it is more interesting and varied than ST imo.
Opinions from both of us...fair enough.
Quoted from RobT:The layout on MET is fantastic in my opinion. I'm sure I'm more enthusiastic about it than you are, but Borg really nailed the design on this one! Has pretty decent flow, with a fan layout that I love, but with some extra and somewhat unique shots thrown in. Huge potential on this one (broken record here I know).
Have to agree as there are a ton of shots on Metallica but it never feels cramped - unlike say XM.
Code is missing a ton of stuff but it is light years ahead of other games already.
One of the biggest differences in ST and MET is Lyman.
Who is the lead coder on ST?
Quoted from JC_Pins:Cramming as much stuff as possible into a single game does not make it more fun, usually the opposite. Stern is currently the best using pure finesse to express a theme and create great shots.
Making the game as fun as possible on a smaller budget takes some real skill.
Steve R. seems pretty good at it, glad he is at Stern.
But can you imagine what SR would / could create at JJP!
Quoted from RobT:That was the flavor of the (last) month.
I think the question about WOZ was more related to the ROI from it versus lower priced Sterns. Bene is an operator and has stated in the past that WOZ was a big earner. Now he says that the sub-$5k pins are better. Does he mean in gameplay, earning via ROI, or both?
Quoted from PinFan4Life:Both MET pro and ST Pro are awesome games. Yes, codes have a bit of room for improvement, but it does not take away from fun and playability of them at all.
Of course it takes away from fun and playability of the games. In a short amount of time you complete everything the code has to offer and it just keeps repeating. Some decent code will solve that. My Metallica is just idle waiting on new code. And my new stid, well I've done everything there is to do in current code in first day. Repeating that forever is neither fun nor playable.
Quoted from markmon:Of course it takes away from fun and playability of the games. In a short amount of time you complete everything the code has to offer and it just keeps repeating. Some decent code will solve that. My Metallica is just idle waiting on new code. And my new stid, well I've done everything there is to do in current code in first day. Repeating that forever is neither fun nor playable.
Yep. I mean I am definitely still able to have fun playing my MET, but only if I don't play it non-stop. I've already seen everything that there is to see in MET several times, so I am definitely looking forward to the next code update in a big way because it can really take this pin to the next level.
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