(Topic ID: 48857)

Space Mission (Tempermental Start Up)

By OHEMIO

10 years ago


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  • 35 posts
  • 12 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 years ago by fflint_18
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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#1 10 years ago

I've spend most of my time on KLOV. I'm an EM collector recently been working on my 76' Space Mission that I resurrected from a sand pile in Myrtle Beach South Carolina a few summers ago. Literally a basket case. I'm lucky vs. what I have heard. Playfield is great, backglass is decent.

However it was loaded with sand and the cabinet was in fair shape at best. Several cracked cabinet area's that had to be repaired. Have cleaned it from top to bottom, all of the stepper units, all of the score reels, all of the switches, had to resolder wires, etc.

I've restored several games from top to bottom but this one has me puzzled. It runs through the reset sequece kicks the ball out of the out hole. However the score motor continues to run. Then a few of the score reels after resetting to zero begin to self score. I've yet to figure out this mystery as of yet.

Was thinking to check all the coils with the Multimeter. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Regards...OHEMIO

#2 10 years ago

I would not expect it to be a coil.
I would start with checking the bonus unit is at zero position and that all switches are as they should be. Start with switches that score multiples like 50,500 or 5000. To get the mutilation the scr motor is used. A clue may lie in what the score reels are doing, EG is it 10s, 100s or 1000s that are self-scoring and is it moving in groups like 5 times than a pause.
Do you have a schematic?

#3 10 years ago
Quoted from OHEMIO:

Then a few of the score reels after resetting to zero begin to self score.

Might also check your score motor for broken, bent actuators,missing nylon pegs,switch gap issues.
Unplug the playfield jones plug to isolate. Small strips of paper between contacts help to isolate for troubleshooting too.

#4 10 years ago
Quoted from OHEMIO:

Then a few of the score reels after resetting to zero begin to self score.

Which of the score reels are self scoring? Is it all 4 players? Which digits are self scoring? As Chrisbee asked, are they incrementing one number at a time, or in groups?

#5 10 years ago

When you turn the game off when the SC Motor keeps turning,
look up at the BG and see if the 0s line up or have changed

#6 10 years ago

Welcome aboard. I myself just started restoring a pretty toasted Space Mission 3 weeks ago. You can probably find my posts which are pretty long winded.

I think I am a few weeks ahead of you.

Someone else above asked if you have a schematic. If not Steve Fury (who has been a huge help to me) or I can get you one if you send me your email.

First thing is to isolate the problem.

And there are 2 distinct problems here.

1) Machine finished resetting, but score motor still running.

2) Self scoring (which may be a symptom of it not finishing resetting)

Most of the time the reset won't fionish until all of the score reels send the signal they are done. All 16 of them!!! That's one of the 1st things to check.

Next, can you select 2nd, 3rd and 4th player? If so, do all the players reels begin to self score? If yes then we know it's not the reels themselves. And we follow the crumb of which points reel is advancing. If no, then we concentrate on some of the switches on the player 1 reels or where the signals are being sent to complete the reset.

Since I am working on the same machine I am pretty familiar with the schematic and how it operates I will be happy to help when I can.

Good Luck and stay in touch.

Bert

#7 10 years ago

If I understand correctly you mash the replay/start button, the machine resets correctly with all score reels to zero, then serves a ball into the shooting lane..... then it begin scoring by itself.

Sounds like a stuck 5,000 point or 50 point PF switch to me. The others are right, if that's the case then which reel is scoring can give you a clue where to look. If it's not a PF switch then check the associated relay. The 5,000 and 50 point relays are on the underside of the PF behind the Bonus Unit.

Same goes with both shooters or eject holes. If these are also cycling/kicking along with the scoring those would be the circuits/switches to check.

#8 10 years ago

Good evening. Do not mean to keep everyone hanging but it's been quite the busy week with work and sports with my daughters. Will check everything everyone suggested and respond if the checks worked. I can answer that I do have a schematic and have utilized it thus far to figure out a few wire issues.

These are all great suggestions. So again I appreciate the help in advance and I'll respond at some point this weekend.

OHEMIO

2 months later
#9 10 years ago
Quoted from Chrisbee:

I would not expect it to be a coil.I would start with checking the bonus unit is at zero position and that all switches are as they should be. Start with switches that score multiples like 50,500 or 5000. To get the mutilation the scr motor is used. A clue may lie in what the score reels are doing, EG is it 10s, 100s or 1000s that are self-scoring and is it moving in groups like 5 times than a pause.Do you have a schematic?

So after two months between work, sporting events for my daughters, and remodeling projects I'm finally back to my hobby and would appreciate any advice all of you can provide.

I manually stepped up all units Bonus, Player, Credit Ball. I wanted to see if they would reset to zero (home) position when I hit the start button. They all reset to zero. The score reel on player 4 (10,000) then begins to running. It's pulsing 5 times brief pause, pulsing again 5 times, pause etc. I have checked ever score reel to see when it's advanced to nine the switch position is correct, then zero

I cleaned every score reel as I have with the seven I have restored. Torn down, contacts cleaned and reassembled. I'm learning from what I read this score reel set up may be a bit more sensitive. Just believe it's something more than that.

Also I would like to ask if someone can snap me a few good pics of they're credit wheel set up. A bit confused as to why mine post to post has limited travel. The most credits I can place on this game is 5 according to how my unit is set. Furthermore I'd ask for a good pic of the wiring on the switch stack the posts rides between.

I have printed the schematic off line as well as the manual and have been reading it. Eventually it will all make sense but as everone knows in the beginning it's a learning process.

I knew this would be a labor of love when I picked it up in the sand pile is was sitting in down in Myrtle Beach South Carolina. However I know that it will be an awesome addition to my collection once restored.

Again I appreciate any help anyone can provide.

OHEMIO

#10 10 years ago
Quoted from fflint_18:

Welcome aboard. I myself just started restoring a pretty toasted Space Mission 3 weeks ago. You can probably find my posts which are pretty long winded.
I think I am a few weeks ahead of you.
Someone else above asked if you have a schematic. If not Steve Fury (who has been a huge help to me) or I can get you one if you send me your email.
First thing is to isolate the problem.
And there are 2 distinct problems here.
1) Machine finished resetting, but score motor still running.
2) Self scoring (which may be a symptom of it not finishing resetting)
Most of the time the reset won't fionish until all of the score reels send the signal they are done. All 16 of them!!! That's one of the 1st things to check.
Next, can you select 2nd, 3rd and 4th player? If so, do all the players reels begin to self score? If yes then we know it's not the reels themselves. And we follow the crumb of which points reel is advancing. If no, then we concentrate on some of the switches on the player 1 reels or where the signals are being sent to complete the reset.
Since I am working on the same machine I am pretty familiar with the schematic and how it operates I will be happy to help when I can.
Good Luck and stay in touch.
Bert

Bert,

Keeping consistent with my first answer to Chrisbee. I stepped up all the units with exception of match of coarse. When I press the start button once. All the stepper units reset to zero as they should. The score motor continues to run once that's completed and the Player 4 score reel (10,000) keeps advancing 5 pulses at a time.

Regarding your question on selecting 2nd, 3rd, & 4th player? It will not credit up for players 2,3,4 but maybe this is because it's not completed it's reset?

May shoot and post a You Tube video on this start up. I can say I found several broken solder points in the score reel section and had to resolder.

Again any help you can provide would be greatly appreciated.

OHEMIO

#11 10 years ago

Update. I removed the Player 4 (10,000) score reel and re-adjusted the blades on the switch stack. Start a game and the reel now resets to zero.

However...now my Player 1 (00 to 90) reel began to run continuosly. So I tore it down to inspect it cleaned it again. Re-assembled and it looks good. Credit up. Hit start. Score reel sets to zero. Kicks ball and begins to self score. Pulsing in series of 5.

So to check to see if all score reels were both incrementing properly. I started a game and let the 10,100, 1000's run and they all increment properly for players 1-4. Restart everything sets to zero. Ball kicks. Self scoring begins. Score Motor keeps on turning.

I have looked at all the playfield switches. All of them are open as the should be.

I did look at the 50 pt relay under the playfield and it is engaged during this self scoring process. I did check the contacts on this relay however I don't know what is engaging it? I will investigate a bit further tonight and work on it tomorrow evening.

Any advice would be again greatly appreciated.

OHEMIO

#12 10 years ago

The 50pt relay is activated by one or more PF switches mapped out for you. Once a PF switch is struck, the relay is held in by its own hold in switch cam 5A until it finishes its 5-count cycle.

I will bet one (or more) of the PF switches are held closed.

Playfield_Locations.jpgPlayfield_Locations.jpg Screenshot_(187).pngScreenshot_(187).png Screenshot_(188).pngScreenshot_(188).png

#13 10 years ago

If you're curious I made a video outlining the startup sequence of late model Williams EM machines, specifically the Space Mission:

#14 10 years ago

Sorry it took so long to reply. That thing called work sometimes gets in the way.

Steve, "as usual" is right onboard with what your scoring problem probably is.

I'm glad you go things to completely reset. From the symptoms something in the player 4 switch stack wasn't completely the reset sequence and the stuck swicth "Steves description above" was giving you the errant scoring.

Since you fixed that the game is completely resetting, player one is up, ball ejected and ready to play, and then the stuck switch has got you in its grasp.

Steve should have you on the right track there.

I have an idea on the problem with your credit wheel.

It could be 2 things.

The last person may have moved the white pin to limit total games to 5 games. There are several threaded holes that the pin can be moved to.

Another likely scenerio is if the gear gets moved too far out of position and gets stuck on the wrong side of the switch stack the it can max out and open the switch stack inadvertedly.

Here are 2 pictures.

The first is of the unit with zero credits. Notice how the pin is on top and opens the switch from the top.

zero_credits.jpgzero_credits.jpg

This one is with multiple credits racked up. The gear ratchets clockwise looking from teh switch side and moves the pin away from the switch allowing the game to be restarted since you now have more than zero.

Multi_credits.jpgMulti_credits.jpg

Getting decent photos was tough due to the angle. If you need something better let me know and I will remove the unit for a better shot.

I think you are now ahead of me on the restore. WOrk and then vacation and then catching up at work has slowed me down.

Currently the backbox is ready, inside has been cleaned up, and I have the PF stripped. Cleaned the PF with a Magic Eraser and alcohol and now need to wax sometime over the next few days.

Good luck and let me know if I can help further in any way.

Bert

#15 10 years ago
Quoted from SteveFury:

The 50pt relay is activated by one or more PF switches mapped out for you. Once a PF switch is struck, the relay is held in by its own hold in switch cam 5A until it finishes its 5-count cycle.
I will bet one (or more) of the PF switches are held closed.

Steve,

Top right was the culprit. You are the man. Switch was closed. So I played with it manually for a while. Player 4 has issues with the 10K and 1K scoring in unison. Probably a switch adjustment. The last six hour were spent tearing down the entire playfield. Cleaning with Novus, Waxing with pure Carnuba.

Playfield was so dirty and in really good shape considering. Before I test with the ball. I thought it be best to tear down and clean.

Still have more to do with soldering alligator clipped area's but for the most part I thought it played well manually. I appreciate all the help sir.

OHEMIO

#16 10 years ago
Quoted from fflint_18:

Sorry it took so long to reply. That thing called work sometimes gets in the way.
Steve, "as usual" is right onboard with what your scoring problem probably is.
I'm glad you go things to completely reset. From the symptoms something in the player 4 switch stack wasn't completely the reset sequence and the stuck swicth "Steves description above" was giving you the errant scoring.
Since you fixed that the game is completely resetting, player one is up, ball ejected and ready to play, and then the stuck switch has got you in its grasp.
Steve should have you on the right track there.
I have an idea on the problem with your credit wheel.
It could be 2 things.
The last person may have moved the white pin to limit total games to 5 games. There are several threaded holes that the pin can be moved to.
Another likely scenerio is if the gear gets moved too far out of position and gets stuck on the wrong side of the switch stack the it can max out and open the switch stack inadvertedly.
Here are 2 pictures.
The first is of the unit with zero credits. Notice how the pin is on top and opens the switch from the top.

This one is with multiple credits racked up. The gear ratchets clockwise looking from teh switch side and moves the pin away from the switch allowing the game to be restarted since you now have more than zero.

Getting decent photos was tough due to the angle. If you need something better let me know and I will remove the unit for a better shot.
I think you are now ahead of me on the restore. WOrk and then vacation and then catching up at work has slowed me down.
Currently the backbox is ready, inside has been cleaned up, and I have the PF stripped. Cleaned the PF with a Magic Eraser and alcohol and now need to wax sometime over the next few days.
Good luck and let me know if I can help further in any way.
Bert

Bert you are also right. The pin was moved I will remove it tomorrow. I just invested 7 hours once I adjusted the closed switch. Playfield was so dirty I could not risk testing it with a ball. Tore it down after a short manual test. Cleaned everything. Reassembled.

Have several area's alligator clipped due to more bad solder.

Glad it's July 4th because I lost all track of time down here. I'm close but not there yet.

Thanks for the advice...OHEMIO

#17 10 years ago

Well slept until 11:30 a.m. and by 11:40 a.m. it was credit up, mashed the start button once, and played my first "4 Player" game with in the old days one quarter. Yeah It's evident I still have some work to do. As It should have only been a "1 Player" game. Nonetheless I played all 20 balls just for the hell of it.

Have to admit the 6-7 hours was worth it on the playfield clean as this playfield looks awesome with new rubber and lights.

I will work on the credit unit at some point tonight or this weekend as I have family outings today. Will also have to work on Player 4 score reels as the 10K and 1K are not incrementing correctly. Obvious have to decipher why I'm not only playing a one player game when I mash the button once.

Besides the futher adjustments that need made I have a few parts to purchase. I usually replace all the coils with brown wrappers and I have 3-4 of those. Need to also buy 4 plastic guides for the target shooters near the flippers. Cleaned them up but all of them are cracked. Love what those #44 bulbs and 35 years do to plastics. I have a few cracked plastics but for now they'll do.

Will also have to raise the height of the score reel panel. Little too low for the back glass. Triple thick the back glass as it's still in really good shape all things considered.

Most of all those who posted I want to thank you again and express my appreciation for all the help you provided and will provide in the future with my restoration. Happy 4th everyone!

OHEMIO

#18 10 years ago

Glad to see you're making progress!

Love that pin.

#19 10 years ago

<WOrk and then vacation and then catching up at work has slowed me down.
Currently the backbox is ready, inside has been cleaned up, and I have the PF stripped. Cleaned the PF with a Magic Eraser and alcohol and now need to wax sometime over the next few days.
Good luck and let me know if I can help further in any way.
Bert

Bert

Wanted to comment that you are way way ahead of me brother.

Believe me I understand how work and family gets in the way I bought this machine in Myrtle Beach I believe in August 2011. Began working on the back box that winter. Then my wife decided she wanted to sell our house. I cleaned half of the backbox then was thrusted into preparing our house to sell.

We moved in to our condo with a much larger and empty 1450 sq. ft. basement (well ok it did benefit me too) in April of 2012. Literally remodeled for the better part of a year. Last winter was the first time I touched the second half of the Space Mission back box since Winter 2011.

This past winter I finally got back to my restorations. Restored my Midway SAMI, my Midway Panzer Attack. Regrettably sold my Twin Rifle because my wife would not let me blow a hole in the wall to take it downstairs. Continued the restoration of the Space Mission.

It's been a long road back to my restorations...

You all undoubtably know more about the Space Mission than I do. Let me know if I can help in any way as I do own several EM pins...60's WMS Pitch and Bat, 70's Bally Circus, 70's Target Alpha, and several other EM's - 50's Midway Jokerball (unrestored), 50's CDI Criss Cross Ski, 60's Midway Cobra Puck Bowler, 60's Midway SAMI, 70's Midway Panzer Attack, 60's United Ball Bowler (unrestored), Original Space Invaders (Unrestored).

OHEMIO

#20 10 years ago
Quoted from OHEMIO:

Triple thick the back glass as it's still in really good shape all things considered.

If the original paint on the back glass is in good shape then I wouldn't apply Tripple Thick.

#21 10 years ago
Quoted from SteveFury:

If the original paint on the back glass is in good shape then I wouldn't apply Tripple Thick.

I'm always worried about the back glass delaminating. There are a few scratches but I'll hold off for now. I appreciate the advice.

#22 10 years ago

Update...

Can't seem to get the 10K and 1K score reel switches adjusted correctly on Player 4. They keep scoring together. Going to tear them apart tomorrow.

Credit wheel pin removed and now I can credit to what seems infinity.

Good news to a certain degree. I'm able to play a 2 Player game. Credit up 2. Resets after play balls 1-5 through game over. I got this to work by looking at the Coin S.U. Disc Step Up / Step Down unit. Too fingers off to make sure proper tention. One small issue at least that's what I believe that it's small. "2 can play is NOT lit when I credit up two".

The reason I believe this is a larger issue is when I credit up to 3. "3 can play" does light up only it plays a 4 player game. If I credit up to 4. The "4 can play" does NOT light up. I thought maybe I had the player unit 180 degree's in the wrong direction. So I adjusted it. That was not the solution. Furthermore when I bought this pin that player unit was loose. Not sure if I have that in the proper position.

Any suggestions for where home is and the correction position of the Player disc would be greatly appreciated. See there's a marking on the disc of "GS". Right now at home position it is to the right. At 180 it would be to the left.

So to sum it up. I can play a 2 player game no problems (however no "2 can play light"). When I credit up to 3 it plays a 4 player game. No "2 or 4 can play" lights (note I did clean sockets and replaced #44's with new #47's). I'll double check those tomorrow after work.

Any help sorting out this new issue would be greatly appreciated.

OHEMIO

#23 10 years ago
Quoted from Prmailers:

Glad to see you're making progress!
Love that pin.

Thanks for posting. I really believe it's one of the best EM pins. After finally playing this pin will have a hard time playing my Bally Circus and Target Alpha. The only feature missing from this game is drop targets. That's why I have the Target Alpha. The Circus was the hook for me. Now I have 8 restored EM's and two left to go.

OHEMIO

#24 10 years ago
Quoted from OHEMIO:

Love what those #44 bulbs and 35 years do to plastics. I have a few cracked plastics but for now they'll do.
OHEMIO

79 bucks for a full set of plastics.

http://www.classicplayfields.com/store-plastics.html


scroll halfway down the page.

#25 10 years ago

I might be able to help w/plastics... I have the set here that I took off of my Space Odyssey when I replaced them all with repros from CPR.

Drop me a PM and let me know which ones you need and we can work something out...

#26 10 years ago

(Snip) when I credit up to 3. "3 can play" does light up only it plays a 4 player game. If I credit up to 4. The "4 can play" does NOT light up. I thought maybe I had the player unit 180 degree's in the wrong direction.

This doesn't sound like a player unit trouble to me. The coin unit records and remembers how many players are in the game. The player unit controls which player is up during a game. I would ensure the coin unit is mechanically stepping properly, then remove the finger disk assembly, clean all the board contacts and finger contacts with alcohol.

If the fingers aren't in the proper position on the board contacts you'll need to adjust the board position/rotation. The board is secured by two screws under the finger contact assembly so you'll need to remove the fingers to access the screws. Loosen the board screws and rotate the board accordingly.

Be sure to check the position of *all* the fingers on the Coin Unit and ensure each of them are on the proper board contact. The finger contacts should have a light but firm contact on the board. If a contact has too much pressure then the finger holding it can twist as the rotor turns, making improper connection and eventually damage the board contacts.

Here is a pic of the coin unit in position for a 1 player game.

IMG_4185.JPGIMG_4185.JPG

Make sure the frame connection is sound, this is also part of the finger circuit:

IMG_4198.JPGIMG_4198.JPG

The video is the Player Unit for your reference. I reset the game then played a 4 player game. The ball was served, I scored a few points then dropped the ball in the drain for each player.

#27 10 years ago
Quoted from SteveFury:

This doesn't sound like a player unit trouble to me. The coin unit records and remembers how many players are in the game. The player unit controls which player is up during a game. I would ensure the coin unit is mechanically stepping properly, then remove the finger disk assembly, clean all the board contacts and finger contacts with alcohol.
If the fingers aren't in the proper position on the board contacts you'll need to adjust the board position/rotation. The board is secured by two screws under the finger contact assembly so you'll need to remove the fingers to access the screws. Loosen the board screws and rotate the board accordingly.
Be sure to check the position of *all* the fingers on the Coin Unit and ensure each of them are on the proper board contact. The finger contacts should have a light but firm contact on the board. If a contact has too much pressure then the finger holding it can twist as the rotor turns, making improper connection and eventually damage the board contacts.
Here is a pic of the coin unit in position for a 1 player game.

Make sure the frame connection is sound, this is also part of the finger circuit:

The video is the Player Unit for your reference. I reset the game then played a 4 player game. The ball was served, I scored a few points then dropped the ball in the drain for each player.
» YouTube video

Steve all of your advice is simply awesome.

I inspected the coin unit and fingers. Cleaned the board. Made a few finger adjustments. Re-Installed the fingers and just like that I could play a 1-3 game with no issues.

I did have the disc on my player unit installed correctly thanks for the photo and video for that matter.

I tried to remove the ground screw to clean it. However someone many years ago stripped it. So I did my best with a small wire brush. Alligator clipped it to the ground wire and the other end of the steel plate. Still no 2 & 4 light. Began to look elsewhere for the issue and found it. My Jones Plug in the back box was causing my 2-4 light not to work. It was cleaned the female portion must be stretched and was just not making good contact on "can play 2 & 4". So the "Can Play" lights are also repaired or at least the problem was identified.

Player 4 score reel issue 10K & 1K scoring at the same time was a bent contact switch tab on the solder side touching another contact switch tab thus making them score at the same time. So the Player 4 score reel problem is also resolved.

Had a brief issue with the Player 4 - 100K relay but fixed it. The plate that pulls in was knocked out of alignment.

So after I played thirty games to test this fantastic pin. I can say that my mechanical restoration of this pin that I drove 26 hours from Ohio to South Carolina is completed. Now that I'm playing this great pin and it's part of my collection. It was worth every minute and mile driven.

Again Steve can't thank you enough for your help!

OHEMIO

#28 10 years ago

Glad to hear everything is working and you have added another pin to your collection.

I hope I was able to help in some small way. Steve is definitely the man with the time, expertise, and the video knowledge to help get things done.

You have what seems like a great collection. I have room for 4 machines and Space Mission is the 6th pin that I have restored. I think it may be a keeper (right theme from right time) plus a good player.

Good luck and letme know what your next restore is going to be.

Bert

#29 10 years ago

Bert,

Thanks man. You both helped me out big time. I'm looking forward to the day that time is not such a premium. Thats about 30 years from now. Before I moved into our condo which is more like a villa I was limited on my space regarding my arcade. Our house was very small with a small basement. I'm really blessed and at the same time cursed because now I want to buy everything that is out there because it will now fit in the basement.

Some games like Space Mission you just know before you even play it that it will be a fantastic game and pin for that matter. What a challenging shot that spinner is. When you hit is when lit it is a state of euphoria that I have not experienced on any of my other EM's.

Besides the normal maintenance of my other EM's as expected from time to time. My next restore is going to be my 61' United 5 Star Ball Bowler. The last United Bowler with the rounded pin hood which I absolutely love. This will take a serious time investment as this will be a complete restoration. Sanding all the hard wood down and restaining. Cleaning and restoring all the mechanics. I will be repainting this game to it's original state. I may stain the wood much darker than it's original though. Will be looking for or making a 3' lane extention mine is only the 13' model. Will have to buy new 4.5 balls possible a new set of pins and I have been investigating buying a piece of formica that would act as a new lane.

$500 for a lane thats offered on line is pretty steep. That's not to say when it's all said an done that I won't spend the money if I can find something suitable. My first ball bowler so I want to take my time and be meticulous about it.

How about you after the Space Mission. What's your next project?

OHEMIO

#30 10 years ago

Not sure of next project. I've been keeping my eyes open. I like to find something nearby in the 2 to 3 hundred range.

So if you know anyone in the Philly area that's got a machine buried in a garage let me know.

Called Steve at PBR today and got the last few items I needed to finish Space Mission with the exception of trim pieces for around my new backglass.

Play fields clean and waxed. Rebuilt the bumpers. Starting on flippers tonight.

Plastics and rubber on over the weekend.

Will keep you up to date.

#31 10 years ago

Oh no..more competition in the Philly area.

#32 10 years ago

Hey Flint, check this out-
http://oi50.tinypic.com/1zy78p.jpg

Not sure if these are still available. but I know these are sometimes hard to find Williams style parts.
Show off your work when you're done!

#33 10 years ago
Quoted from bonzo71:

Oh no..more competition in the Philly area.

Not competition.

A fellow admirer of old broken down stuff that needs to be fixed.

You can have the nice ones. I like the broken down ones. Nothing pleases me more than bringing a wrecked machine back.

And I want to leave them rough to show the life they have led and the battle scars of all the bars.

I can only keep about 4 at a time so I'm not a big issue.

So hook a brother up when you find one you don't like or need and I'll do the same.

And I'll be glad to help a fellow EMer with any issue.

Bert

#34 10 years ago

I was just joking. There seems to be plenty of games in our area. Prices are going up a bit though.. All of my games were fix me upers..some more than others.

#35 10 years ago

That's what I'm seeing.

Drop me a line if you see anything you don't want or if there is some kind of package deal that we can both get in on.

Bert

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