He doesn't have to, he chooses to. I know lots of CEOs in many different fields who find it better to stay away from the message boards. Stern is surviving without defending themselves on Pinside.
and who's bitching now?

How can you start a bitching thread about other people bitching and not mention the biggest bitching thread on Pinside?

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/where-is-the-metallica-update-soon

For the people making repro parts...your supporters will keep buying them. Their voices might not be as loud but probably the most important.

Let's be a little less dramatic. Many bitching posts are really people that love the hobby and are being critical because they want more and better things. The internet has an amazing ability to make things seem a bit more harsh than how people feel/think in real life if you talk to them in person.

I think the vast majority of hobbyists are very happy with the big companies that remake stuff and will give them props in general terms even if they are unhappy with the quality of a specific product. Rather than see the big guys come on here to defend verbally, the best defense is better products

I try not to complain too much myself but I was indeed critical of the Creech holo. At 300$ a pop you better believe it. I'm very greatfull to those who put in tons of time and effort to add something to the hobby even if it is to turn a profit. But those who do it to make a buck or those who do it to make big bucks are at the end of the day business men and are held accountable for what they're selling. Effort AND quality. Have NEVER slighted anyone who has contributed out of love and enjoyment for all things pinball. Guys like Chad doing the DE star wars work is a good example of that.

The time and effort is appreciated. I never hear someone complain about the amount of time and effort someone puts into something. BUT, if you are going to make a "reproduction" of something, the expectation is that it looks like the part it is replacing. Maybe they should be advertised as "alternative" to keep a few people from trying to baseline them to the original as NOS replacement.

It is great these parts are being produced. If you aren't picky about recreating an original, these parts are just fine. But if you want to recreate the original, there is a lot of room for improvement.

Ya slightly different bitch there, that is sons of bitches bitching about those bitches at Stern not delivering on their bitchin product that every bitch out there wants to be awesome.

Bitching about the bitching. Where will it all end.

you know...I am sick of this bitching about the bitching of bitching.

Most of the people doing the bitching are relative newbies to the hobby. In 1996 when I got into it reproduction game specific parts didnt exist for the most part. If you couldn't find NOS then you made do with what you had. The fact is that some people are never satisfied with anything. Im not willing to pony up the money to have parts made that I need or want so ill gladly accept what is available or be willing to live with the part that I have.

I like the negative threads, the bitching, the keyboard comandoes, and the personal attacks. Pinside is getting closer to RGP every day.

Steve (in Escalon)

Glad to see this wasn't another thread about Metallica code

I called Toyota. My brand new car keeps running out of gas. They said I'm gonna need to change the oil soon too. Shit. That just sucks. Then they said i shoulda bought a prius. Wont keep running out of gas. Takes batteries. Damn. I wonder how many double A's it takes?

It's simply a whole lot of newbs to the hobby. I don't remember anyone ever calling a pinball machine a "table" until visiting Pinside, still makes me laugh when i hear it, as does about 80% of the threads & posts here asking insipid questions like "which game should i buy"...

Yup

"quit your bitching" thread devolves into bitching. shocker.

Without newbies this wonderful hobby slowly dies

I guess you've never listened to the song "Pinball Wizard".

i've referred to them as tables forever. four legs and a surface you play a game on, looks like a table to me. just like a foosball table, ping ping table, air hockey table or pool table.

well, you could simply climb back in your hole if you don't like it...

If you're going to take the time to do a project, DO IT RIGHT. If you're making a replacement part, it should be nearly indistinguishable next to a NOS one.
Have some pride in your product.

Look at HOOKED and eli's mods for tron. They are of better quality than even Stern. HOOKED's tron pop caps are just unbelievable and the amount of work that went into Eli's ramp mod is staggering.

When you're recreating a pop bumper cap, drop target or even a hologram, it needs to look exactly like the original. People bitch because they are paying top dollar for replacement parts that aren't accurate.

If they do say "f*ck it", perhaps we'd be better off and someone with better attention to detail could make them.

I got my first pin last July and have done a TON of research since then, but I would think its totally legit to come here and ask the opinion of those who have a lot more experience if I was trying to decide between a couple of pins on my next purchase. I played games on location back in the early eighties and sporadically since then, but there are a lot of games I've never played that I could use advice on. It's one thing to watch a video of game play on youtube, but I'd rather hear from someone who has actually played it.

Or maybe we'll just have lots of broken parts with no replacements. Yes I agree if you're gonna do it do it well. But I disagree that the newbies are the bitchers

Top dollar? A year ago I bought clear decal media and three white plain pop caps from PBR. By the time I scanned the cap and made some decals I spent about the same amount as I would have spent buying the repro caps. Not a major investment either way. Now on repro items that cost hundreds of dollars I agree that those should be quite close to the original. It seems that the anal retentives are the ones doing the bitching. Lighten up. This a hobby and is supposed to be fun.

Ouch...did I hit a nerve?

I just gave out the most thumbs up ever

Bitchin'!

this thread is a bitchin thread!

There is bitchin for the sake of it and bitchin when something ain't right.

Met code is worth bitchin about because it is simply unacceptable.

Hilton ... really. Like we don't try to make the best products we can - reverse engineering a product is not usually the easiest - look at the Hologram ... a 'little' different and I think about $15K investment - somehow he's trying to make a product that will get slammed in the market ... i think not.

I think the message is constructive criticism than all this negativity, often from people who are not buyers is a little hard to take sometime.

When people tell me there is an issue with a product, I get onto the suppliers to make them know about it and then we either figure out if it's all that the product can be or if there is a mistake, or what ... nobody making parts is trying to make a fast buck in pinball parts ...

rick

Something about some snakes on a plane.

Guess Im in the minority...a Pinball Purist. Unless it was absolutely necessary I would never put a Repro Plastic/Backglass/Playfield in one of my 1970's/80's machines. As a temporary fix maybe. I would be REALLY pissed if I bought a $300 Repro Backglass and then the same company made a "Better" one a couple years later for the same game. Where does it end??? That just wouldn't fly with me. Do it right the first time or don't do it at all.

Im Amazed people will pay $3000 - 4000 for some games (Fathom in particular) that don't have an original part in them. I'll be more than Happy to sell you some Mickey Mantle Rookie Card REPRINTS or Reprinted Comic Books from the 1960's for Hundreds/Thousands of dollars each. At least in those hobbies people know Reprint/Repro = Basically Worthless. A Fathom with All original Parts and in nice shape is selling for LESS or the same as a REPRO Version?? This is the Only hobby that I know of where this mentality exists.

I'm one of the newest of the newbies, and I'd just like to say Thank you to ALL of you. I can't believe how nice everyone here has been to me. I appreciate everyone of you for helping me out, giving me advice and just putting up with my sometimes stupid newbie questions.

I'd also like to thank all you guys who come up with updates, mods and repro's for these incredible machines. I'm simply overwhelmed by you guys and gals out there who come up with this stuff. It's mind blowing!

I've personally talked to Cliff from Cliffy protectors, what an amazing, humble and great guy. A damn stainless steel genius!

I've also been personally been dealing with Chris (AKA Rock914 here on Pinside from Rock-Customs) and he's been spending hours and hours working out some custom LED kits for both my TFLE and SP machines. Just another great and humble guy. I've spent probably 2 hours just talking to him about stuff. I mean, I honestly can't say enough good things about him.

So, to Cliffy and Chris and Rick and Jeff and every other person and company that is out there spending hours upon hours doing R&D and the actually making of all these products, (And they ain't getting rich doing this stuff. They do it because they LOVE it. Sure they may make a couple bucks here and there, but please...) I'd simply like to say THANK YOU! And please keep up the great work that you all are doing to improve and build upon this great and wonderful hobby. I sincerely appreciate it.

Derek.

All baseball cards have are collectability. Pinball is a functional, fun game that works. It makes no sense to compare the two. Collectability is just one of the many factors of a pinball machine.

It's a public forum and not all rainbows and ponies well compared to RGP it may be

As a newbie I can say that I'm constantly amazed and impressed how many parts are available to not only keep these machines running but looking new. Everyone I talk to that doesn't know anything about pinball is shocked that anything is available, let alone almost everything. This is a wonderful hobby that people are passionate about. That comes out in constructive and not-so-constructive ways.

I wonder if you hold the same values for your cars. If that's the case, you must be doing a whole lot of walking.

Same holds true for computers or practically anything else that is made and manufactured. Better things come out and get made as technology improves. Life moves forward. So what if something you bought for $300 bucks is improved upon a few years later. You should be thankful that things are getting better and improving. Only good can come of that.

I'm not bashing you at all BTW. I'm just sayin'.

Peace.

Have to disagree. Automobiles are a Functioning collectible. Go find me a Muscle Car where the Value goes up if you replace all the Sheet Metal/Doors and the Numbers don't match. The value drops drastically with After Market parts.

+1.....agreed

LMK how you feel in 2020 when you have purchased 3 or 4 Different Paragon Backglasses for more than you paid for whole machine to begin with. At some point you will stop buying the "Newer/Better" versions.

bitchfit.jpg

that's true, and i think it's fantastic. finally a hobby where people like to play and use the stuff they collect! i have zero interest in hobbies where the object of collection just sits in some sealed container never getting used. utterly pointless endeavor. you can keep your boring mickey mantle or boba fett in its original packaging. i like to play pinball.

put the highest-quality part available on my machine. i could not care less about the historical authenticity of some gear or bulb.

I make pinparts for the American workin' man cuz that's what I am.

zalinsky.jpg

I think that's is because of all the new people who have entered the hobby. And I'm speaking about my self here.

Personally, I'm afraid of all the mechanics that go into a pinball machine. Why? Because I can't fix it. And to pay someone who does know how to fix it will add up to hundreds if not thousands of dollars. These guys want to paid for travel time to boot. I have to pay a guy $150 bucks each day just to come to my home to fix a machine, not actually even do any work.

For me, I'd rather by a Twilight Zone (My all time favorite pin) that has been completely gone through with all the best new technology and new parts and mods etc. that I am almost certain will give me years of worry free family fun.

As I said, I'm an ignorant newbie. This is just my personal opinion and what I think others may be feeling as well. That's why they'll by the "New" Fathom over the original.

Think pinball is a curious market but essentially games are there to be played, always have been, always will be.

But, collecting comes into the hobby but there is no real common yardstick, except great condition and even that means different things to all of us!