Wonder if its feasible at this point to talk to somebody that worked on it about what the plan was for those rain effects?

Rain effects are likely for caddyshack type " The hard stuff is not even coming down yet" or whatever the quote is...

The new mode should reference this if possible.

You have to keep playing as more and more rain comes down. Could be a fun very chaotic mode. This could actually be a fun safecracker style of mode. What I mean is a mode where it is timed till flippers die and the object is to keep adding time to your mode. Basically a game within a game. Could have a seperate high score board for this mode?

I don't get where people think the game is incomplete. Sure the software is really buggy (to the point that it soured me on owning it and I sold it) but the game is complete.

I think a lot of games are released with immature code (vs incomplete). The problem is WMS bailed on NGG before it had the chance to mature naturally.

If there was ONE thing I would categorize as "incomplete" its the lack of a super wizard mode for completing 18 holes. It just seems super obvious in a game with 18-holes to have some sort of 18-hole recognition.

I am hoping for the same....a wizard mode after completion of the 18 holes. wish i were creative enough to make some suggestions but alas i am not.
I also am excited to hear there is a lot of "weather" related sounds. as I go thru the game sometimes the lightning and thunder plays really cool. would love more of that.

You could argue that but historically that programmer's code was buggier than other's so really how the game shipped was how the game was going to be regardless of sales numbers. If someone just took a pass at that code and fixed the bugs it would be a much better game even if the rules were left alone. Really aside from Monopoly (which after time I grew bored of) it was the last Lawlor game I liked and the only one I liked after Twilight Zone. I enjoyed it for awhile when I owned it but eventually the bugs ruined it for me and I had to dump it. I still think the multiball and the hole in one shot are a lot of fun.

And to MXV's point, NGG was made when it was still mostly operators with games. And those software updates weren't generally sent to anyone...if you wanted it you either burned your own ROM or your distributor did it. *Most* operators out there couldn't actually even change a ROM without breaking something, so it's not like they often worried as much about updates once a game shipped.

So releasing an incomplete game that you could just update later wasn't really a "thing" like it is now. They did try to fix significant bugs, and why that may not have happened in *that* title's case is a question worth asking. But I'm not sure the "incomplete" thing holds water.

--Donnie

Whatever you do, keep the cartoon "thung....." sounds when you hit the pop bumpers. That has to be my favorite part of the game, audio-wise.

One thing worth mentioning is that NGG was initially designed as a "backyard mayhem" type game. It wasn't supposed to be about golf. I believe if only changed to golf when distributors in Asia complained it wouldn't work because large backyards are uncommon there.

I'm not sure when that change was made but it might explain why the game feels light on the golf stuff at times and why there are a lot of unused audio.

The existing match feature animation is cool , it could use a witty audio clip though.

That's interesting trivia- thanks for sharing.

Personally, I've never felt it was "light on the golf"

The ramp shot / Hole in One shot seems pretty golf-centric (and still one of the most gratifying shots in pinball, MANY years later).

I'm very interested in the plans for the animation. I think poor or absent animation would doom this project. NGG is a blast because it is not only fast and furious, but also very humorous and charming. The quality and amount of animation play a huge role in the appeal IMO. I am enormously intrigued and very hopeful, but equally skeptical that the reanimation will be worthy of the original.

Just curious- what is the timetable for this type of undertaking?

I have a couple.
1. like FT sorta, you are at the driving range just hitting balls to hit the ball picker upper machine or gophers out in the range.

2. kinda like "tank game", where you choose the angle of projection and then power meter. Then the ball would go. Either to make a hole in one or hit something.

Sent a PM but didn't hear back, so will start throwing out mode ideas --

"Blow" up the gofers timed mode utilizing the putting green (multiball) kick out and/or buzz lock kickout...There are many ways this could be done, but idea is:

"Blow up" mode starts...The pinball becomes a "bomb". The core goal of the mode is to "blow up" Bud and Buzz (you could re-use the hurry-up mode sound fx). Each bomb has a timed fuse (of course) and will blow up in ~10s or so. To blow up, e.g., Bud you are required to get the bomb into his hole over a specific window in time, otherwise he "throws" the bomb back out at you (via the putting green/multiball kickout)--meaning you have to gain control of the ball/"bomb" and hit it into his hole within, e.g., 3 seconds of it blowing up (Hit it in too early and he just throws it back at you). This ties into a player "health" meter such that the player has the ability to sustain three (or whatever) bomb hits, with a player bomb hit corresponding to a bomb explosion when it's not under the playfield.

Buzz would be similar except the kickout would be to above the upper right flipper...

Most importantly this could tie into an overall battle theme in the game where as the player progresses through the game he/she is equipped with bigger better weapons...Ties into hitting the gofers above and below playfield. Maybe ending in a wizard mode where you have to destroy the gofers by hitting each of them several times to get them under ground and then launch a ridiculous weapon (thinking nuke, e.g.) into the Hole in One shot to finally "kill" them and win the "mega" wizard mode (i.e., 18th hole wizard mode).

...I'm a programmer by trade and had been thinking about doing a P-ROC remark of gofers that is similar in its core to the current NGG rule set but adds an over-arching battle theme to the game...Seems obvious to me that this is missing as the golf cart toy has f'ing missiles mounted on it. I put that idea back burner once I found out about this project.

P.S. I love the "move your car" mode in CFTBL due to the over-the-top hilarity of it (flame throwers, etc.)...This is kind of where the idea started...Would love to see something similar in Gofers.

P.P.S. Almost forgot--perhaps hitting the golf cart affects which weapon you're using, etc...Or maybe even "destroys" a weapon/ends a mode if you accidentally hit the golf cart...Can't understand how hitting your own golf cart is currently a rewarding thing (three hits to an award IIRC--can't remember the award).

Personally, I don't like video modes.... to me it, it takes me out of the immersion in the pinball game. Most are so cheesy (by todays video standards) that they seem like a waste of time/energy.

I'd be THRILLED with more PINBALL (modes, sound effects, etc).

Exactly--as though you are actually battling back and forth with those damned gofers . It's not as fun (or fair) if only the gofers can be hurt

Overall, I think the key thing to the new modes/rules is to have them consistent in theme. Having a disconnected bag of modes won't feel polished...It seems like the game needs "battle" modes that are motivated by the mayhem of the gofers--you wouldn't be trying to destroy them if they didn't piss you off ...Starts off with them taunting you, they progress into destroying stuff under the playfield, motivating the arms race that culminates in the ultimate 18th hole wizard mode battle.

E.g., here's a rough sequence grouped by holes (note: theme is that gofer antagonism nets battle mode)...

1) (Holes 1-4; can't progress further until multiball started) Gofers taunt player/steal golf balls...Results in current standard lock-sequenced multiball w/ jackpots.

2) (7th hole) Gofers start chewing up wire under playfield...Some kind of battle to destroy them such as hitting the lightning target to shock them and get them to pop up from under the playfield...Use some silly/funny weapon to hit them while they are above the playfield. (Can't progress pass hole 7 until this is achieved...Maybe achieved after sinking hole 7 similar to the shoot kick/hit buzz mode that is currently there.)

3) (9th hole) Sinking 9th hole starts "blow up" mode as mentioned earlier...After sinking putt, gofers throw bomb out at you to start mode...Retaliation is blowing them up as described in "blow up" mode above. Would need to figure out how to tie in jackpots...Maybe jackpot is lit for bud as he's too stupid to know to light the bomb (sounds pretty funny actually if you can tie in great DMD animation), so you need to put it through the jackpot shot to light the bomb before throwing it at him???? Maybe bud always throws out the bombs so that when you progress to buzz you need to light the bomb again, meaning you can justify requiring two left ramp shots during the mode.

4) (Holes 10-13; locked at 13 until multiball started) Similar to (1) except the gofers steal your golf cart...Battle is to hit the cart to stop the gofers. Need to hit the left side ramp to enable slam ramp--jackpot for hitting the golf cart. Maybe two or three hits to end the mode. If down to one ball mode ends.

5) (16th hole) Some tie-in with the rain sound fx...Don't know what those are so not sure what the mode would be. Probably a single ball mode. Maybe chasing the gofers along the cart path in the rain so player/gofers are dealing with lightning, etc? Or maybe like a roaming/timed shot mode where the required shot moves every 4-5 seconds?

6) (18th hole) Sink the 18th hole put. Gofers declare war and bring out their best weapons...Player has a health meter effectively making this a timed mode. Player has to "shoot back" and kill both gofers before they kill the player. Thinking this would be like "pop a gofer" but with weapons/guns. Once both gofers are sufficiently injured they go under the playfield...The player has to make the final killing blow by launching a nuke into the hole-in-one shot...Amazing DMD animations, sounds pursue. Player runs and grabs the wife, kids, dog, etc., to show off, etc. Maybe multiball is somehow incorporated into this mode. Maybe weapons are earned by making the left ramp shot??? Maybe the player reloads by shooting the left ramp or other shots??? Wouldn't want it to be primarily a two-shot affair (bud and buzz only). Oh--perhaps draining the ball delivers a major health meter (time) hit but doesn't end the mode in order to reward the player for making it so far.

In between these modes existing rules would apply except for the current lock-sequence multiball, which would only be possible every 1st-4th and 10th-13th hole. (I.e., rip-off, etc. would be available). If the primary game modes are interesting enough a video mode probably wouldn't be necessary. Though it would be cool to have visualizations of progress towards putt-out, battle modes, etc., which would maybe make it feel more like a video game at times (given the health meter, etc...)

P.S. One other thing--sand trap needs to be more interesting. KICK light sequence should be non-linear or sped up and perhaps have more interesting consequences.

Interesting ideas.

My simple suggestion is that a mode that requires the cart to be hit should have the slam ramp activated by the right ramp/right inlane. This would give a fresh new shot for the slam ramp from the right flipper which is otherwise shot almost exclusively from the left flipper.

as long as that does not count as end of ball. just end of mode.

Prob already seen this but someone's writeup of the rules:

http://pinball.org/rules/nogoodgofers.html

Love Video Modes. NGG could surely use them.

Video modes are polarizing - people either love them or hate them. There is no middle ground. How about the ability to turn them on or off in the software?

Personally, I don't like 'em a bit.

How about a golf cart multi ball. If you choose to shoot the cart instead of going for hole in one. May be interesting if 10 cart hits start a new mode like dynamite a gopher

Yes--it's a fine balance. You don't want to make some of the funnest parts of the game too hard to get to, but at the same time, you want some of that great content to be achieved only by good (or great) play so that it feels rewarding...I really like LOTR where you only have to *start* the 3 movie multiballs to progress to destroy the ring mode. If there was a blocking mechanism, it should probably be something simple, like "you need to start this mode first"...This would be easy enough to pull off as you would simply not light the Drive shots until the player, e.g., has started the lock-sequence multiball--which really even the casual player should have done anyway by the fourth hole.

Same for me--some of the funnest games are the ones that have a clear story and objectives (and typically an antagonist)...E.g., run the red light and escape the cops, destroy the castles to battle for the kingdom, etc...In this case: get the gofers who are ruining your golf game.

IMHO the overarching story events (battles) should be linear, as that's how most stories are told. The wheel leaves a lot of opportunity for doing other fun modes in parallel while attempting to progress through the primary story elements...E.g., "Gofer Attack", "Cart Attack", "Bad Shot" could become mini battle modes...I suppose there is a fine balance here as well, though, as at what point do the rules change so much that the game is no longer an extended version of NGG, but instead an entirely different game?

Other interesting parallel goals could be, e.g., earning weapons and armor/health (maybe the pro shop stocks up on them ) by defeating various wheel modes, etc...Maybe makes it easier to win in the 5 major battle events.

Oh--I should mention that I suggested tying the battle modes into specific holes as that's the obvious existing linear progression through the game and it kind of makes sense that the confrontation between player/gofers escalate the further the player gets into the golf game.

Man--this is sounding like a lot of fun to code up...So much potential with the theme and the pf toys.

IIRC Pat was strongly against video modes which is why there was never one in any of his games.

Family guy had one for a short time

Awesome just so great to read this, hope it happens.

Bill

Good luck with this. It's a really good game. I for one, can take or leave video modes. I'm impartial, but their alright. I hope you do something about the final mode. I remember making it all the way through 18 holes and I was like, what just happened, nothing? It's good to know there's smart people out there working on this stuff. I've got enough trouble trying to program my VCR.

oh yeah.... and please add the code for my "boss gopher" to pop up from under the spinning wheel...

t-boss.jpg

I'd take a video mode in this game. GL with the project,, as said before, lots of potential in this game.

Can't wait to be a beta tester.

I volunteer for the animations. PM sent

JUST got a NGG

Make it so that the standard lock sequence multiball isn't available until other goals have been met as I suggested earlier in the thread...Forces the player to explore other aspects of the table. Jackpot values could also be lowered or wheel mode values increased.

are there any other uses of the putting green kick out than multiball start? (i just got the game so maybe missing it). Would be nice to use it more.. like randomly instead of returning gently the gophers slingshot it back to you.

Yep, that's me I'm on this forum for quite a long time - but I was just reading along... I'm glad I can help, as pinball and my profession are working together real good. I got myself 9 pins in just over a year, so, yeah, I feel welcome to the fold

I'd like to share some of the stuff I've done so far - please comment. I've only been able to draw on my iPad with my index finger only as I was sick over the holidays and didn't have the time to get a stylus...

https://www.icloud.com/photostream/#A253qWtHn8pAC

Things will be updated, some will never make it into the game... So if you have a mode in mind that would require anims to be made, let me know.

I'd really like to re-do the DM stuff too, as this is one of my favorite pins, and Jim put so much work into this. Please check his other thread.

Thanks,
Mario.

Thanks for the efforts James and Mario!

nice!

BTW I got super jets yesterday and got some lightning dots / thunder sounds.. so maybe the rest of the weather stuff was tied into an expansion of that?

Hi,

Nice to read this thread again and the progress that is made.

Another few suggestions:

- Make the rewards for the top,middle and lower skill shot targets different during skill shot
- when the ball is in the putt out fool the player by flashing the bumper flash, so the ball is expected by the jets but
throw the ball directly to the player out of the put out
- this game realy needs a sneaky lock
- Idea for animation when you hit bud/buzz animate somehow on the screen they are hurt!
- Secret jackpot, by locking a ball in the sandtrap during multiball
- Have electromechanical scoring display on the DMD, just like breakshot or flip display just like on old alarm clocks and HTC smartphones

Regards

Marcel

I like the concepts you put together. If you can draw that well with your finger, I can hardly wait to see what you can do with a stylus!