You are wrong about the games that are restored (7/8)and the people they are typically done for(rich)The. Majority of people I deal with are not concerned about investment nor am I.Not sure why you think you would know more about my business than I do but you are wrong.
I provide a service it isn't about marketplaces or values.
The games restored here are everything from one of a kind prototypes in horrible condition to NIB Sterns and everything in between plus playfields for regular guys and other restorer.There is just a lot more to it than you either realize or give credit for.

Some people just do things or have them done for pleasure.lt takes just as much work or more to restore a $500 game as it does a $5000 game.

I think it's cool you post here. I would love to see a video of a high end restore.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts

I didn't realize you restored games PinballHelp. That is awesome!

http://www.youtube.com/user/highendpins

Well, I'm not at Chris' level, even though he apparently doesn't want to acknowledge that he does "high end" work even though it's in his company's name.

I like playing pinball. I fix up games. I don't do this professionally on any significant level. I don't charge several thousand dollars to fix up peoples' games. I just fix up my own and my friends' games.

I'm not quite sure why Chris seems to take offense to my characterization of his work as pandering to a higher-caliber of collector. It's a compliment. If someone is paying four grand to have their machine redone, that's a major deal. If you completely disassemble the playfield and refinish every inch of the machine, clear coat and sand things to a mirror finish, that's a whole different level of restoration. Some of us just want to recreate what it's like to play classic games in the arcades, not like what they were like the day they were made. It's a different deal.

Exactly. But most people aren't willing to pay big bucks to restore a $500 game. There is a much smaller group of hardcore enthusiasts in that category. And for those types of people, you seem to be the go-to guy. Am I wrong about that?

Yea, I took what you were saying to HEP guy as a complement to his work. I guess he thought you were calling him an elitist or something? Dunno? He sure does nice work though.

Do u have a point or are just stating the obvious?

Sometimes it's like walking through a minefield posting in these forums. I'm a bit outspoken but even when I try to be nice, it seems it's all too easy to be misinterpreted.

Maybe the notion of "boutique pinball" is not something people want to be associated with? But I think we have to face the reality that there is a "boutique pinball" part of the community. People paying $10k-$20+k for machines are building "trophy rooms". People putting more money into refinishing a game than its market value is creating "boutique games." It is what it is.

Is any game really worth twenty-plus grand? Only if you factor in the "boutique" aspect, special condition, rarity, etc., and treat the game more like a piece of art than a toy or tool, which is what they were originally intended to be. I'm not against that. I think pinball is art, but I also think it's important to note that some people just like to play the game, others collect games as trophies. Different strokes for different folks.

I was actually talking to pinballhelp. What's the issue? Why is everyone so touchy in this thread?

Sheesh... First off, nobody said ANYTHING disparaging about Chris. You need to chill out. You can't control what other people think and say, and if you don't want any comments you don't approve of, perhaps you should create your own web site and moderate everything?

I'm really getting sick and tired of this mob mentality, like nobody can say anything that might tweak someone else or it's somehow inappropriate? And WTF did I say? I didn't say a single thing that was bad about Chris. In fact I paid him the highest compliment I can think of.

Don't tell me what I can and cannot say. Don't be a douche. What is with you guys?

Everyone can chill.I do not stress about this stuff that much.
What bothered me is that it was insinuated that I only start out with nice games and deal with the rich "pinball investors"..
All incorrect and worth correcting IMO.Not much more to it than that and nothing worth getting worked up over.HEP can be a hot button sometimes.Never understood exactly why but I think it isn't really about HEP at all but what some think it represents.

Kudos to anyone that dedicates that kind of time to any hobby to keep it alive and well.
I don't care what the cost.

You do great work HEP it is unmatched at least from what I have seen.

As for this spat .... enough said.

Go back and read what I wrote. I said no such thing. I never said you "only" start out with any type of game.

You know what you charge for restorations. It's safe to say a lot of your clients are well-to-do. That's just common knowledge. The average guy is not going to pay someone several thousand dollars to restore their games. Both of you guys were out of line jumping my ass. If this was merely an advertisement or "HEP love-fest" I didn't do or say anything earlier that rained on that parade. Give me a break.

I've read your posts and I agree, you were not being nasty to Chris or casting any sort of bad light on what he does. In fact, you were mostly complimentary. If having an open discussion or debate that is civil and informed (without insulting anyone) is a bad thing, then why are we all here?

I won't give too much weight to what others may have to say on the matter if they can't see that for themselves, but I will consider Chris' point of view. I think he might see himself as someone who helps others attain a dream rather han someon who panders to the wealthy. Certainly some of those people are rich and motivated by the cache of having a HEP restored pin (we're all dillusional if we dont see that), but there are also people like me that just do okay and might be willing to spend a bit of dough on something we truly love.

I got Chris to recently quote touching up my MM playfield. I still enjoy restoring things myself and would normally do this on my own... and I think I do a pretty good job. However, this is a pin I want my kids to play as they grow and some of the atwork on this game also requires special skills to repair that I do not possess.

Chris is someone I would trust to ensure that playfield looks great for years to come. I was surprised to learn that his services were actually pretty reasonable and timely, and I will be sending him my pf very soon.

Your only real error is in assuming that this hobby is so polarized that there are only the haves and the have-nots. Maybe you feel the elitist collectors are poisoning the hobby, but that's not Chris' fault even if it is true. There is a lot of grey in between and that includes guys like me. I can only speak for myself, but I can tell you that I do not see this hobby as an investment. For some of us, if you love something, you are just willing to pay for it. It's not cold and calculated.

I'm just glad that HEP and guys like him are around. If private collections are to be the utlimate keepers of this hobby and of a pinball heritage that may eventually fade away, Chris is the ultimate custodian and curator.

I have read it and just to follow up on my point of contention . Here is a water damaged game being restored for a semi local guy(very blue collar/down home) he is not a collector,investor nor rich.He just loves this game.I rate it less than a 7 or 8 I am more inspired by his willingness to resurrect the game than any money I might make or he might spend.

http://christopherhutchins.com/gallery/album425

Not sure why you are getting so worked up it isn't like anyone crushed you or anything I would hope that I would be able to debate what I think are misconceptions about my own business without having to defend it.
I just don't think you understand my business or customer base as well as you thought you did that is all.

That was a good post Drano. Everyone is happy guys like HEP and Jim over in Utah are breathing life into these 20 year old machines. No one has criticized him.

The people who "leap to the defense" of visitors like HEP in message boards like this always manifest the phantom of criticism by being too avid in their support. Things like eye rolls and calling people captain obvious for zero reason only revs up the rhetoric and should be resisted...never tell someone they have no right to an opinion...that is asking for trouble.

Well.....I'm thinking that is a bit unrealistic.....I get why you don't care about the "investment" because its not your pin and you "haven't found a deal in years" to buy and stock as inventory for sale.....

The restore is a business for you....congrats, you are one of the best at it and I'm sure you do quite well.....

I'm sure you aren't naive enough to think that most people aren't concerned about the value or "investment" of the pin they are sending you....no, its all about the sentimental value....that's amazing....

In fact, my dollars aren't going to restore old pins, its to buy new ones......and in my humble opinion, they are meant to be played and not put into some shrine of collector hall of fame....

Keep up the great business! I don't think PinballHelp was attacking you, but complimenting you in what I read.....so I would say check yourself and anyone who can afford your fees to fix a pin is fortunate........get over yourselves.....

What the heck does that mean?....It's like people talking about themselves in the 3rd person.....I don't get it....what does it represent, you get paid to do "High End Pin" restores.....what?

It's simple. I've seen many times on RGP and other forums where the very mention of HEP gets people all riled up. It's similar to the way people get angry whenever someone brings up the high prices that MM's fetch these days. For some reason, some people just can't get over the fact that others can afford, or are willing to shell out big bucks for the hobby.

I know, and that's great, but "HEP" doesn't need to act like its something else or its some kind of charity case, it is what it is and that's all, a business of fixing up machines that people are willing to pay big bucks for......I'm sure people are jealous of HEP as good and successful as he is but no need to defend yourself or try and pass it off as something its not....

Its just business.....

I'm sure he was just referring to the use of his company name and the reactions it gets. Not sure how he's talking in the third person. Last I checked his name wasn't HEP and someone referring to their business name and the reactions it gets on these (and other) forums, seems totally normal to me.

Have we added enough fuel to this fire yet?

Someone was trying to post about their fun visit to Chris' workshop... I think

I see both points. I think HEP was just stating that not all of his clients are rich. Some just want a game they love to be restored to HEP standards. It is a business but, it's a business with many types of clients. The range of games in his storage room and shop is interesting for sure. That alone speaks volumes. All types.

I think Chris was just trying to make a point that he doesn't always start off with pretty decent "7 or 8" quality pins. He sometimes takes games that are totally blown out and turns them into examples that were better then when the came off the factory floor. Where did you read between the lines and come up with he was doing this out of the goodness of his heart ( charity )???

Not at all...and HEP JD would be worth and assload of money...

even though it is what it is a JD !

An HEP resto cost more than you guys are eluding to, or maybe think it is, in this thread..and it is worth every penny !

A done JD by chris would fetch probably, between 5500-7500 at a minimum...

there are guys out there that will never sell their JD's.... I think JD is great..

Yes.I was not mad about anything I read or thinking I was being insulted it was simply that I felt that Pinballhelp was only seeing one type of customer and type of service.Having to deal with everything and everyone that comes through here I just felt it was not a true representation.
No hard feelings on my side.

Its his business, he weighed in on a guy that clearly wasn't attacking him and his own Pinside name is "High End Pins".....

Of course not all are "rich".....not sure how anyone defines that but if you can pay 5k to restore a pin you aren't "Poor".....no need to be so thin skinned with your own business is all I'm saying....

And for me, after seeing all of those pins in waiting, and the attitude, I would probably send my pin to the next guy....but that's just me because that's the beauty of this country and competition...

So what.....he gets paid for that......he said the "majority" of his clients could care less about the "investment" value and neither could he care about it.......I know its not about charity on either end!!!

Exactly.

I really can't comprehend where this thread has gone. Talk about taking a weird turn. PinballHelp made some statement about Chris' business as though he knew what he was talking about. Why he felt the need to even try to say what Chris does or the type of clients that he has is beyond me, but as a reminder, he said:

So there are obviously two statements that Chris says are wrong: he doesn't take anything "too horribly damaged" and he caters to "very rich people".

If those statement are in fact wrong, and someone is saying this as fact, why would anyone be surprised or offended that Chris would correct this erroneous information? It isn't a matter of whether the statements were intended to be derogatory, it is a matter of them being wrong. It isn't like Chris made a Federal case out of it.

And its not about the "investment" ever..... I feel so sorry for the "poor" people getting these charity projects done....great attitude..

+1 Alex, being self employed, if your not making at least 100 and hour your playing with yourself...

that also depends on what kind of business your in too....you may need more than a 100 to make it worth while...

When someone says that HEP doesn't take/repair "anything too horribly damaged" and caters to "very rich people", that seems to be more of a statement of fact than opinion.

Really.......really........really...........man, I guess I am clueless then......

Geeze, am i on RGPee ? sure seems like it....Hmmm let me go check that ! BRB

My comment was to the OP for his comment that he didn't want people to annoy his guest and if they didn't have something positive to say then they best say nothing.

That said, I do respectfully note that pinballhelp, who I might add does his fair share of work furthering the hobby here in Louisiana, did say in that same quote that he was sure HEP did take pins of lower condition, he just hadn't seen any.

Regardless, I have an old pin, a dw, that has a lot of meaning to me. I would like to get it a high end restore in a few years. Would be great. I hope people like HEP and Jim in Utah will still be around turning these 20 year machines into 11's for years to come. They deserve to be paid top dollar for their top quality work.

this thread is great, like most, starts off with one intention totally rabbit trailing to another.

From an outside prospective reading through this it seems there is a group of mature adults talking sense, and a small handful of immature teens chiming in.. reading this is better than watching SNL reruns in HD. its almost like playing COD online and getting into a disagreement over intercom mic, and talking shit to someone for 5 minutes only to find out there 17 years old..

Iceman

This thread turned a bit south earlier, but it REALLY turned south once you showed up on the scene...

Why are you being such a DICK !

You dont have the perverbial horse in this race...

And you dont buy old machines...You buy NEW ones...

SO......STFU !

You dont know Chris, because if you had ever met him, or talked to him, you wouldnt be talking out your ass ! OR BEING ONE !

Everything i have read from you in other threads recently, has been mostly overly opinionated, and MOSTLY wrong.....stick to talking about something you know about, ok I'll say it again...STFU, and mind your own business...

Stop throwing gas on fires that you wouldnt even know how to start !

Really?

And to the origional Poster of this thread, congrats on meeting Chris, and having a great time..

Sorry i had to bitchslap this TOOL, in the midst of your kind and cool thread....

I think it's been estimated that "top dollar" might equate to $50/hr. So, not exactly top of the scale.

I would think that people like say, lawyers for example, are getting a crapload more than that. I would also guess that some lawyers (purely as an example) get into that line of work for pure profit, while others see it as a vocation and do it for less common pursuits. I think there is room for both types in that profession as in Chris'

Someone's motivations should not be subject to public trial on a forum like this. That's just an opinion.

With posts continuously turning into this crap, it's no wonder guys like Jim have already backed away. If some here want to push away anyone with any real knowledge of this hobby from posting and participating, just keep this up.

Way too much drama here from people who's only contribution to this hobby is opening up their checkbook whenever a new pin is announced. Quite frankly, their opinions don't really amount to much next to someone who has paid some dues and actually contributes to this hobby.

I'd rather hear a bit more from Chris on some of the stories behind some of these games (like Hercules) rather than give more airtime to nonsense.

I have a HEP MM. I'm a school teacher. With a mortgage, bills and car payment. I'm not rich.

I sold comic books (prized childhood possessions) and saved my money to send him my pin. Yes, saved money, weird concept to many people. I don't have velvet ropes around my pin. When I sent it off to him, I assumed what I had into the pin would forever be more than the pin is worth. Never figured the pin market would go this crazy. Doesn't matter as I bought it as something I wanted. I already have a savings, 403b, etc...

You have 36 pins, wouldn't be right making assumptions about you.

And that's it, any of them, all of them......as we say in contract law, people are free to make good deals and they are free to make bad deals!.............

If you have 5k to restore a pin then you aren't "poor" and if you are "poor" and you spend 5k to restore a pin then you are stupid....

I can see people getting old pins restored for sentimental value but I've never understood the "museum quality" pin to sit there and look at....I like "shooter lane wear".....and I don't put "Cliffy's" into my pins, that's just me, its a pin and its a wood play field and I don't care about cracked plastics or faded cabs......maybe its because I collect vintage basketball cards and if you restore the card its worth nothing from its original condition or that I have friends who buy F150's brand new and drive them through the brush, scratch em up, to break them in....I don't know.....its just a pin that's meant to be played....

+1000 Agreed

You are right on the money !

+1000

Well, if I'm paying Chris to bring a game back to life, I'm sure as hell playing it

Don't worry so much about why other "customers" want museum quality pins. What matters to guys like Chris (and myself) is the satisfaction of turning a turd into a work of beauty. Getting paid is a necessary evil and maybe you just don't understand the mind of an artist or craftsman?

To that point, I'm pretty sure Chris' motivations are more derived from doing good work and being the best at what he does than getting rich.

Why are you buying a NIB WOZ. Just wait to get one broke in.

Stupid - Poor Nice adjectives. I'm not rich and my pin is worth thousands more than I originally paid for it.

Well with every comment you make it appears this is the only thing you've made thats accurate. Whats it matter to you anyways? What reason would he have for lying about what his customers are sending in their games for. By looking at all the games he has sitting around waiting for work to be done its not like he's here trying to drum up business. Do you really think people send in pins just to get them back from restore just to look at like museum pieces???

If it wasn't for the people opening up their checkbooks to pay for the new pins and the restores the pin makers and restore guys wouldn't be in business......+10,000 on that........

And I don't really give a flying rats ass about what anybody's motivation is....because I realize its 100% about the $$ if they are in the "BUSINESS" of selling or fixing pins....who cares.....they may love what they do, so do I....so what.....

If they are great at what they do, they get more business, period.....you can be a DICK, either way........

I'm going to give this post the benefit of the doubt and assume the above was not directed at me as I've never had an issue with you before...but be careful what you say after you quote someone. It is very easy for the person you quoted to assume the entire post was about them and if that is the case I am rather disappointed.

I'll leave the point at that for now...and assume the issue is closed.