(Topic ID: 36531)

Magic Erasers and Ball Swirl Marks

By rancegt

11 years ago


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  • 48 posts
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  • Latest reply 10 years ago by Dr-Tommy
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#1 11 years ago

Most people seem to agree that Magic Erasers with alcohol are the most effective method for removing ball swirl marks, but there's some dispute over the consequences. I've been doing some tests and I thought some people might find this information helpful.

First, here are before and after pictures of the area I'm working on. I would call these swirl marks medium density. The playfield here is Taxi, so it's System 11, with no diamond plate. I cleaned it with a 1" magic eraser cube and 91% alcohol. I used almost no pressure, and moved in circles and various directions until I felt the results were good.

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#2 11 years ago

WOW. Very nice... thank you.

#3 11 years ago

Yeah it looks good but it's my understanding that if not sealed off in some way they come back fairly quickly. But that's a nice before and after. I've had similar results.

#4 11 years ago

I also took before and after pictures using a surface profiler. The area shown here is about 5mm x 10mm. In the second picture, the upper half is the area that's been cleaned with a magic eraser.

10mm_x_5mm_area_with_swirl_marks_Befor.jpg10mm_x_5mm_area_with_swirl_marks_Befor.jpg 10mm_x_5mm_area_with_swirl_marks_After.jpg10mm_x_5mm_area_with_swirl_marks_After.jpg

#5 11 years ago

Are you going to do the rest ( I would imagine) do the touch up's then clear it?

#6 11 years ago

that seemed to "open" ( the surface) quit a bit yes?

#7 11 years ago

I've seen for certain games that there is precut mylar for them. I wonder if it'd be worth it (and whether it'd work or not) to take a magic eraser + alcohol to an old playfield then lay mylar over it.

#8 11 years ago

I liked your post on the ball scans too... that was really an eye opener

#9 11 years ago

Yeah it looks good but it's my understanding that if not sealed off in some way they come back fairly quickly. But that's a nice before and after. I've had similar results.

Looking at the pictures above brings up two questions. First, how much wear have we caused? And second, now that we've opened the cracks, how do we close them to prevent them from coming back?

This picture spans the cleaned area from top to bottom. It's not shown here, but I took some height measurements between the clean and dirty areas. We seem to have lost about 25 microns. My measurements show the total paint/lacquer thickness to be about 100 microns.

Before_and_After_Cross_Section_3D.jpgBefore_and_After_Cross_Section_3D.jpg

-1
#10 11 years ago
Quoted from APOLLO_13:

Are you going to do the rest ( I would imagine) do the touch up's then clear it?

This is just a playfield with no machine, so I don't know. It seems pretty clear to me that cleaning the ball swirls without sealing it is likely to cause additional damage to the playfield. The question that I haven't dug into yet, is how best to seal the cracks.

It's my understanding that lacquer of the type used on System 11 and earlier games will bond easily to a new layer of lacquer. Even to the point that the old lacquer softens and flows into the new. I may be able to wipe the cleaned playfield with a lacquer soaked rage, and then wipe it off right away. That may seal the cracks without adding additional surface defects.

#11 11 years ago
Quoted from Finrod:

I've seen for certain games that there is precut mylar for them. I wonder if it'd be worth it (and whether it'd work or not) to take a magic eraser + alcohol to an old playfield then lay mylar over it.

There's no question that mylar is better than nothing. That and a proper clear coat seem to be the most obvious solutions.

#12 11 years ago

This is good stuff.

I'd be interested to see the results of using the lacquer soaked rag...

Very cool.

#13 11 years ago

Nice scientific work! Confirms that magic eraser is a prep to clear coating moreso than just general cleaning.

#14 11 years ago

Wow, this is pretty cool. Also looking forward to results of lacquering.

#15 11 years ago

This is fantastic. Thanks for doing this!

#16 11 years ago

Confirms my experience with ME, I love the product, but you have to be careful with it! If you have really deep/dirty cracks, you either live with it, or start to take the paint off! I try to reach that fine line just before that occurs. If you start to see the paint color on the ME, it's time to stop. I always clear coat afterward.

#17 11 years ago

It is gone now, but a fellow on byoac once detailed a method where he did a "wet fill" of the swirl marks with color. He did it on a Stern Sea Witch, and the results were excellent.

I'm about 80% done using ME on a Mr/Mrs Pacman. The blacks look horrendous after Me because the swirls went all the way through to wood. Clear coating will 'probably' make it look dark again, but I'm going to do the fill method anyways. This Bally had the worst swirling I've seen. Their ink layer is soooo thin. I had a Charlie's angels that was worse, but the ink was so much thicker on it that the swirls completely disappeared.

Basically, he took watered down color matched paint and dabbed it onto the area. Then wiped it off real quick, just leaving paint in the swirls. I've used the same method back in the day on models to add an aged look to them.

#18 11 years ago
Quoted from shardian:

It is gone now, but a fellow on byoac once detailed a method where he did a "wet fill" of the swirl marks with color. He did it on a Stern Sea Witch, and the results were excellent. Basically, he took watered down color matched paint and dabbed it onto the area. Then wiped it off real quick, just leaving paint in the swirls. I've used the same method back in the day on models to add an aged look to them.

I've been playing with lacquer a little but I haven't measured the results yet. I'd also like to try something with pigment, as you've described here.

Quoted from shardian:

I'm about 80% done using ME on a Mr/Mrs Pacman. The blacks look horrendous after Me because the swirls went all the way through to wood. Clear coating will 'probably' make it look dark again, but I'm going to do the fill method anyways.

Woodworkers will typically wet the surface to get an idea of what it will look like with clearcoat. It's not perfect but it should give you a preview.

#19 11 years ago

Here is a test report Mark Clayton(Pinball Pal) had done on Magic erasers. Thought some of you may be interested in reading. http://arcadearchive.com/pinball/magic/

#20 11 years ago
Quoted from Cash_Riprock:

Here is a test report Mark Clayton(Pinball Pal) had done on Magic erasers. Thought some of you may be interested in reading. http://arcadearchive.com/pinball/magic/

He found the same conclusions I did, long before I did. Nice work.

#21 11 years ago

WARNING!Make sure you do a small test area before the ME/alcohol combo. I tried this on a Gottlieb Deadly Weapon, which had some type of polish or glaze on it and it caused the playfield to turn foggy white. i was able to get rid of it by scrubbing like hell with a dry magic eraser, but would have saved me a lot of time if i had tested a small non conspicuous area first.

#22 11 years ago

The ME always leaves a white residue. I clean it off wit Novus2.

#23 11 years ago

Glad to see that Taxi pf being put to good use.

I will keep following this thread, especially since I have 2 boxes of ME waiting to use as I need them.

#24 11 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

The ME always leaves a white residue. I clean it off wit Novus2.

Quoted from Dommer:

WARNING!Make sure you do a small test area before the ME/alcohol combo. I tried this on a Gottlieb Deadly Weapon, which had some type of polish or glaze on it and it caused the playfield to turn foggy white. i was able to get rid of it by scrubbing like hell with a dry magic eraser, but would have saved me a lot of time if i had tested a small non conspicuous area first.

Vid1900 is right, novus 2 will get that white residue right up.

#25 11 years ago

91% alcohol gets the residue up also pretty well

--Jeff

#26 11 years ago
Quoted from practicalsteve:

Vid1900 is right, novus 2 will get that white residue right up.

it wasn't really a residue as much as a fogging of a clear layer that was over the paint. i would have tried it if i would have known then but too late now.
my point would be to test it somewhere out of the way first just to make sure. ounce of prevention type stuff.

#27 11 years ago

I just went a little to far and removed a bit of paint ( needs touch up anyhow) don't let alcohol sit on playfield found that one out tonight shit!

#28 11 years ago
Quoted from Rick471:

Glad to see that Taxi pf being put to good use.
I will keep following this thread, especially since I have 2 boxes of ME waiting to use as I need them.

I couldn't ask for a better test playfield than this one, so thanks again. Other than the missing paint, it's actually cleaning up OK. It's not great but I'd be happy using it, if it had a game attached.

#29 11 years ago
Quoted from Dommer:

it wasn't really a residue as much as a fogging of a clear layer that was over the paint. i would have tried it if i would have known then but too late now.
my point would be to test it somewhere out of the way first just to make sure. ounce of prevention type stuff.

Sound advice. The factory thought the area under the apron was made for this.

#30 11 years ago

This really is outstanding research, folks!

Yeah, any solvent, like 91% alcohol, will dissolve the bonding agent in paint. I am a carpenter, and restore furniture, and match wood stain. My experience would be to definately NOT expect your lacquer, or varnish, or wipe-on poly to darken the wood to match the color. I t will darken the wood, but hten it is sealed, and you cannot touch up the paint without stripping the clear coat.

I have just begun restoring playfields, and I will use a solvent to remove the varnish, to a point were I begin to lift the paint, just barely. I use a filling compound called MH Ready Patch to fill the tiny "canyons" where paint cracks or chips. I will follow up with 1500 grit sand paper. A little coarse, but it lifts the varnish well.

Then, the hard part. Paint matching. Glass and saran wrap work well for checking to see if I have an accurate match, but the surface has to be primed with an oil based paint primer. I am still looking for a great paint, but testers is fine. Only airbrush; no bristle brushes.

-1
#31 11 years ago
Quoted from rancegt:

I've been playing with lacquer a little but I haven't measured the results yet. I'd also like to try something with pigment, as you've described here.

Woodworkers will typically wet the surface to get an idea of what it will look like with clearcoat. It's not perfect but it should give you a preview.

Yes, clearcoat will bring it back to black. Wet method makes it look mostly normal. I wish I could show you the results of that seawitch. It was amazing considering the absurd planking it had.

#32 11 years ago

I have a 1969 Bally On Beam. The playfield paint is completely in tact. No chips or wear-thru, but dirty and swirly. Doesn't look to me that there is any lacquer. I am nervous about cleaning. Any Recommendations?

#34 11 years ago
Quoted from Pafasa:

I have a 1969 Bally On Beam. The playfield paint is completely in tact. No chips or wear-thru, but dirty and swirly. Doesn't look to me that there is any lacquer. I am nervous about cleaning. Any Recommendations?

I'm a little nervous myself about the old EM's. I don't have a playfield yet that I can use to test different methods. I've had no troubles cleaning EM's with Novus 2 or Millwax, but that doesn't get the ball swirl marks out either.

I'm thinking about cleaning up my Bally Surfers playfield for display. If I do, I will probably use Magic Eraser to smooth the surface, and then wax it. I will probably not try to remove swirl marks until I can do more testing. Once the surface is smooth and after I've waxed, it will look like clearcoat.

#35 11 years ago
Quoted from L_satan:

I am still looking for a great paint, but testers is fine.

No, Testers is not fine. It is a the worst.

It will fog or bubble the clear coat once applied.

NEVER USE TESTERS PAINT OR SHARPIE PEN FOR TOUCH UP - EVER.

The only paint type to use is acrylic and the brand you want is Createx for air brush. The color you mix is the color it dries to, and it does not fade like model paints.

http://www.createxcolors.com/

#36 11 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

No, Testers is not fine. It is a the worst.

Testor's sells acrylic paints. Don't see why they would be the worst. If they are please explain why.

#37 11 years ago

You want a paint that does not dry a different shade than it lays out in.

You want a paint that does not drastically change its shade when clear coated.

You want a paint that does not fade in a few years.

You want a paint that does not smear into the clear coat.

You want a paint that has enough pigment to cover in a single coat.

You want a paint that does not need to be thinned to run through the airbrush.

You want a paint that does not permanently set until you hit it with the heat gun, so you can fix your mistakes.

You want a paint that can be instantly set, so you can get on to the next color/layer.

#38 11 years ago

Hey Vid1900,
Checked out Createx site. They also offer their stuff as a brush on acrylic, though it looks like it's only available in 16 oz. bottles. Not sure if this thread was meant purely for airbrush touch-ups. I would welcome an alternative to the cheapo craft paints from the dollar store that many of us use.

#39 11 years ago

The cheapo craft paints have very little pigment (that's why they are cheap), and change colors when dry.

I highly suggest you get an airbrush from HF (plenty good enough for a beginner) These go on sale for $12 all the time:

http://www.harborfreight.com/deluxe-airbrush-kit-95810.html

You can used canned air for a cheap way to start, or get a $70 air compressor if you find you use a lot of cans.

#40 11 years ago

Magic Eraser can do some magic....

I did not have a "before" pic but I had a LOT of ball swirl marks filled in with black dirt that really looked like ass. I used magic eraser and alcohol which removed almost all of the dirt and made the area look 100% better. Once you get it clean you do need to cover it or clearcoat it to keep dirt out of the voids you just cleaned. I auto cleared mine. I used the acrylic paints from our local art supply shop. Ones you use your touch up paint let it dry then wipe the area with a wet cloth ( lighter fluid or Naphtha ) and it will give you an idea on the color change of your paint with auto clear over it.

Magic_eraser_magic.jpgMagic_eraser_magic.jpg

#41 11 years ago

Playfield wear around spinners. I had some loose inserts that needed help as well. All inserts were removed, sanded flat with new insert decals. Entire PF was given the magic eraser treatment then touch ups done.

Before_spinner_wear.jpgBefore_spinner_wear.jpg

#42 11 years ago

Uh-oh! Looks like Rain! Actually looks really good. Did you have to remove factory mylar before hand?

#43 11 years ago
Quoted from stashyboy:

Uh-oh! Looks like Rain! Actually looks really good. Did you have to remove factory mylar before hand?

Absolutely removed all the nasty mylar. Touchup_and_clear_3.jpgTouchup_and_clear_3.jpg Nice_insert_decals.jpgNice_insert_decals.jpg

#44 11 years ago

Melamine foam with 99% alcohol is great. Just go slow be careful. And wipe sludge with a clean towel frequently.

I wear heavy duty gloves when digging in. When that sludge dries, it's stubborn to remove from anywhere.

MataHari_BA_girl.jpgMataHari_BA_girl.jpg MataHari_BA_girl2.jpgMataHari_BA_girl2.jpg

3 weeks later
#45 11 years ago
Quoted from OTTOgd:

Melamine foam with 99% alcohol is great. Just go slow be careful. And wipe sludge with a clean towel frequently.
I wear heavy duty gloves when digging in. When that sludge dries, it's stubborn to remove from anywhere.

Work looks very good, nice job cleaning it up.

Can you clarify what type of alcohol you're using? Common drug store rubbing alcohol is IPA (isopropyl) and is at 70% concentration. Just curious if you found a better variety?
Thanks

#46 11 years ago
Quoted from Kzooandy:

Work looks very good, nice job cleaning it up.Can you clarify what type of alcohol you're using? Common drug store rubbing alcohol is IPA (isopropyl) and is at 70% concentration. Just curious if you found a better variety?Thanks

You just need to shop around. Depending on the store you can find isopropyl anywhere from 50-99% concentration. I have a local store that sells both 91 and 99 side by side together. The price is higher the more concentrated you get.

#47 11 years ago
Quoted from 7Warpig7:

You just need to shop around. Depending on the store you can find isopropyl anywhere from 50-99% concentration. I have a local store that sells both 91 and 99 side by side together. The price is higher the more concentrated you get.

Ok great....thank you.

I'll look around for the high grade ISO.

2 months later
#48 10 years ago

Just found this great post. Really nice scientific approach and I love the 3D surface scan. Never thought I would see an analysis of PF cleaning down to micron precision! Thanks everyone for the useful info, RE paint brands as well.

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