So I had a snagger issue. The drop target wouldn't drop. Finally found a wire (white with green stripe) had broke off the snagger coil assembly. I soldered that wire back on. Tested the game. The game booted and coil 4 I think for the snagger drop target kept firing, the start button would not start a game and the launch button started a game.

I replaced the bridge rectifier, bridge21 for 5v, and connected te game back. Checked the drop target assbly, found the diode going across the coil touching the nut, so I bent that over so it wasn't touching. The game boots with a random coil error but it went so fast I couldn't read. Start button doesn't work. I went into the menu, the menu buttons on the door are almost turbo charged. They are pressed and fire multiple times. Here is the switch test of active switches. As you can see many are active without being touched.

Any ideas?

image.jpg

image-163.jpg

Ok I'll remove the white w/ green stripe wire from the snagger drop target and test again.

Thank Lloyd! I'll post back!

I removed that wire from the snagger drop assembly. Issue still is there. I scanned the wire all the way to the start button etc. I don't see any breaks. I did find the transistor that it connects to, Q4. Could that be a problem if it is failed?

Also there is a Bridge Rectifier for the coils, I can try testing the + and - on that. But if I cannot start a game, is it active?

Okay update as of last night. Turned the game on to show the gf. Game worked without issue, except the snagger doesn't function.

Snagger drop target is all soldered up.

In test the target goes down and up. In test of the snagger I can poke the drop to make it go down. Then I can make the vehicle snagger go down and up.

In game, ball lock initiates. Ball hits the upper magnet, drops to lower magnet, you hear the snagger work but nothing moves. The drop target does no go down. The drop has to go down for the snagger to work. I have locked the ball and poked the drop target with my finger and it still doesn't work.

There are optos on this snagger, if I power it up they should be lit red ya? Is there a test for optos?

Hahah, let it begin!

image.jpg

You are correct. But both work and I cleaned them.

Freaking a. Looks like the coil that drops the target down, doesn't work in test. The reset test works, but that only seems to pop it up.

The solder on the coil looks fine, could it be a transistor? Q20

I ran this test pin mike posted near the bottom

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/how-to-test-a-transistor

Put the red on the middle pin and tried the black on both other legs. Nothing. Tried a different transistor and it worked. So I think it may be a bad transistor.

Edit: Tip102's on order

Soldered a new tip102 on Q20. No affect. Coil still doesn't fire.

My gf starts playing a game and the lock snagger worked once. Then threw a coil error and hasn't worked. I tested the coil contacts and I get almost 10v on idle and when fired almost 20v. So there is power at the coil. So either a bad coil or the transistor that goes across the legs?

Ordered a new coil/diode, 32-1800 part.

HA. got the new drop target down coil, p/n 32-1800, comes with diode between the legs. Working now, even in test. BUT now the drop target is having a hard time staying up. I ordered new spring (265-5003-00), drop target (545-5533-01) and target coil sleeve (545-5809-00). That should help the target assembly work a little smoother.

I found an old broken drop target in the back of the cab. So I ordered new ones just in case. The spring for it feels pretty worn, so not a bad part to keep on hand either. The sleeve looks and feels dirty. I will also tweak the height adjustment bracket for the coil/drop target. Glad this snagger bs is figured out

Parts are in. I will install them soon, day or two, and post back results. The game worked for a couple games last night, but then the drop target freaked out and wouldn't stay up.

There were a few frayed wires. I wrapped the fray sections in electrical tape. The actual wire was intact. It felt like the plastic drop wasn't sticking when it was shot up?? So I have the new parts. I'll check all the wires again, while I'm in there and see how the new spring and drop are. Damn wires!!! they are all over!!

For replacing wires, you just cut the section out and solder in a new section?

The new drop target and spring have fixed the issue. snagger and drop target are fully working

Bah it is back to being picky. Keeps firing like the target can't stay up. I may need to tweak the drop coil so it has more room.

Ok so update. New stand up target and spring installed. It was firing over and over again because the stand up wasn't catching properly. Adjusted the height of the up coil bracket. Also the bracket that pushes it down on the top coil I think I was able to adjust. I'll look again.

don't mind me...

BAH never mind. Thought I used the wrong fet. But drop target coil uses TIP122 (Q20 on board), low circuit. The high circuit uses the IRF540. I thought it used the IRF540 and I put the wrong one in.

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Sega/Stern_White_Star_Repair#Can_an_IRF540_replace_a_P20N10L.2C_P22NE10L_or_an_IRL540.3F

still not functioning right

Omg could I have the wires on the coil backward?

Machine has power, coil fires and stays on. Power off is what makes the coil stop.

Violet yellow is transistor driver
Brown is power, 20v

Brown is on cathode side

Tested the resistor and diode behind q20. Look good. I did a quick test on the tip102 transistor and that tests fine.

I have new roms on the way. The only thing I can think of is the wire has a break or ground out in it? Continuity test, do I have to unsolder the wire from the coil to get an accurate reading?

image-672.jpg

image-669.jpg

update:

I was down at the pinball warehouse and spoke with Aaron about this issue. He mentioned replacing the diode on my drop target coil AND the transistor at the same time. Good idea. So I swapped out the transistor and went to do my diode on the coil.....turns out the small coil has a different diode than "normal 1n4004". The small coil has a diode of 1N4002. Just ordered some....more waiting.

K...I was confused as the manual says 1N4004 but the coil I bought as a replacement came with 1N4002. They have different parameters, so I was worried the 4004 would not work?

Threw a 1N4004 on the coil. Still having the same issue. Coil is on constant when the high voltage power is on.

Can anyone with a LWJP confirm during play if the coil should be "on" or off? I thought it would be off when playing and when it had to force the drop target down, for ball pickup via the snagger, it would enable the coil so the bracket would hit the plastic drop and knock it down. Having it on the entire game seems like it would create too much heat.

This issue is haunting me..

I appreciate the help, I'm freaking completely lost at this point

I've changed the transistor 5+ times. Q20
New coil w/ diode
changed diode on coil
Tested continuity on power wire (violet yellow)
Changed roms
Changed transistor and coil diode at the same time

Aaron said to take voltage at coil leg with power on, but I kind of forgot how he told me to go about it, so I won't do that until confirmed.

Some forum posts said the ic chip before the transistor can fail causing issues like this, but it is very uncommon. I don't know what else to test/change. I can only think now, to get a spare I/O board and test...I'm totally out of ideas except lighting it on fire

I have the schematic for Q20 posted above... I see there are 2 resisters, one before and one after, and a diode (high speed) before. I can swap those. I seem to have bad luck testing with DMM when the diode is on the board still. Once I take them off they test properly.

haha I make it sound like I'm more fired up than I really am. Just annoyed and newer ish at this deep of a repair.... but anyway. I used the sega/whitestar pinwiki and worked through the troubleshooting guide. Replacing the transistor was the 1st step to that kind of issue. Did that a couple times just to verify. Then the coil/diode was replaced. Then Aaron had mentioned they can blow each other out if one is bad and the other is replaced, so did the change out again. I of course worry that doing too many replacements of the transistor could be bad...

Ok, so moving forward. I'll get the results from testing the coil and post up! I appreciate your help! I'll test that tonight Oh yeah I didn't want the coil to overheat so I don't leave the game on long at all when it is powered up for testing.

True, but seriously for some reason everything I test when it is in the board does not work right... I'll test everything again.

Transistors, diodes and Bridge rectifiers test with power off, correct?
Testing the coil as you said above, have power on, ya?

I can't wait to leave work and test this...

transistor TIP 122
- red on middle leg with black on the two ends - each reads .3 and keeps climbing
- black on middle leg with red on two ends - each go to 0

resistor before
22k r204 - tested = 7.08 ohms

620 R20 - tested = .617 ohms

diode before
D203 1n4148 - tests = .533

coil legs:
With game ON
20v power - brown 21.1v ish
driver - violet/yellow 3.3v ish

other coils using the brown 20v line work fine, ie. snagger egg opening. I can test later again to verify.

Friday Bump!

I have a logic probe I'll give it a shot. I also have a scanner...flat glass one, I could try making a scan of it all.

Ok, logic probe
These chips legs are pinned/labeled weird...not like a normal chip.. What I gather, the last 8 legs are the #Q , so the first two on the top row are blank. Leaving pin 9 = 4Q

Pin 2 = Q17 = flash in egg
Pin 5 = Q18 = snagger driver
Pin 6 = Q19 = snagger motor relay
Pin 9 = Q20 = drop target down
Pin 12 = Q21 = Dino egg
Pin 15 = Q22 = flash L ramp
Pin 16 = Q23 = flash pops
Pin 19 = Q24 = optional coin meter

The brown power line is shared between Q18-21
Results:
Pin 2 =low fast pulse
Pin 5 = low slow pulse
Pin 6 = low
Pin 9 = low
Pin 12 = low with pulse
Pin 15 = low with fast pulse
Pin 16 = low
Pin 19 = high

When powering off game the 18v led stays on for a heck of a long time while no other one does, just incase that means anything.

The manual gave a weird ass leg number. I'll post a pic of it.

DOH!~!! no I didn't test with the coil being fired. :-p Let me retest hahah. I'll grab the pic for you to see what I'm talking about.

Thanks!

Ok....I see what you mean by the ipdb pdf having a bad scan. The schematics are unreadable. But Here is the screen capture.
notch is on the left by U3, Bottom row goes like 1, 3, 7,8 where the top starts at 2, 5, 6, 9, no 10, So maybe I just interpreted it incorrectly.

lwjp-u3.png