Lethal Weapon 3
Data East, 1992Hi all. I just put in a new coil for the ball launcher on my Lethal Weapon 3 that I purchased last week. When I power on the machine the ball launch coil fires and locks. The ball launcher will not retract. I only left the machine on for maybe 10 seconds max. When the machine is turned of the ball launcher retracts. Any thoughts on what could be causing this?
Thank you LTG. From looking at the manual it appears that the wires are on correctly now... but maybe not. The violet/yellow wire attaches to the banded side of the lug and the brown yellow wire should be attached to the non-banded lug. Now this is according to the manual. The coil that I removed had the wires reversed. Should I try flipping the wires on the coil? Did I read the manual wrong?
I've been looking in the manual for the last few hours but am coming up short in finding. I'm going to keep looking though!
Quoted from gern:I've been looking in the manual for the last few hours but am coming up short in finding. I'm going to keep looking though!
Ummmmmmmm............................... you could pull the board and find a shorted transistor with a meter comparing it to others, in probably 10 to 15 minutes.
LTG : )
Quoted from LTG:Ummmmmmmm............................... you could pull the board and find a shorted transistor with a meter comparing it to others, in probably 10 to 15 minutes.
LTG : )
Thank you for the advice. This is my first machine and I'm not sure which board to pull. From reading the manual I would think it would be on the PBB.
Quoted from beatmaster:transistor Q27 for ball launch (from what i can see).
it is probably short.
beatmaster, I believe I have found Q27. How did you figure that out?
It would appear that I will have to remove the board to test the transistor. Is that correct?
i used to have one, i have the manual.
take your multimeter put it on diode/continuity/sound, one terminal on the middle leg, the other one on the other leg, do one side and the other. if it beeps it's shorted. that's how i do it.
It doesn't appear the transistor at Q27 is bad. I had to take the board out as there really is no way to test it without doing so. Then I tested the back side of the board. Would that be an ok way to test? I set my DMM to the OHM setting, put the one lead on the middle post, then the other lead on the left post, then the right. I did not get a beep on any of the transistors.
Below is a pic of the transistors I tested. You can't see it but to the left of the first transistor it is labeled Q23.
Quoted from WOLF:Is there a switch that activates the launcher?
Yes. There is a gun for the launcher. When you pull the trigger it should activate the launcher. My Dad and I checked the switch and it appears to be good. Maybe I could disconnect the switch and see what happens?
I was checking over some other transistors. While checking Q1-Q5 I think I may have stumbled on to something. I think that the Q1 transistor may be bad. I put the lead on the metal tab and tested all three legs. The top one reads 1, the middle one reads 000, and the bottom one reads 1. This was using the diode setting.
you said you changed the coil, i guess it was burned, if so that mean the transistor driving that coil is shorted. that why the coil burned, same thing will happen again.
is it when you power the game, or starting a game?
ok, here's some reading that will help you.
Quoted from beatmaster:you said you changed the coil, i guess it was burned, if so that mean the transistor driving that coil is shorted. that why the coil burned, same thing will happen again.
is it when you power the game, or starting a game?
ok, here's some reading that will help you.
http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/desega/index2.htm#trans
It is happening when I power the game. Thanks for the link I'll check it out.
Quoted from WOLF:If you swap leads and check the same sequence, what do you get? .5v?
Wolf, I reversed the leads with both DMMs that I have. Here is what I got.
Diode:
502
000
544
Ohm:
OL
1
OL
This is on the Q1 transistor.
Quoted from gern:Wolf, I reversed the leads with both DMMs that I have. Here is what I got.
Diode:
502
000
544
Ohm:
OL
1
OL
This is on the Q1 transistor.
Well I'm gonna call that one good.
Quoted from WOLF:I'm confused. I thought Q-27 was the trans for the launcher, and it tested ok. So what is Q1-Q5 for?
My bad. I thought you were talking about Q1. I can check Q-27 again. It will take me a little bit. The only way I can figure out how to test it is to remove the board since there is a clip in the way and test the back of the board. Unless there is a better way I'm not seeing.
Quoted from WOLF:If you swap leads and check the same sequence, what do you get? .5v?
Wolf, I've got the board out. Here is what I get on Q 27.
Diode:
1
001 then drops to 000
1
OHM:
OL
1
OL
ok, there ya go. bad transistor. try this site http://www.pinballrehab.com/1-articles/solid-state-repair/tutorials/120-electronics-tutorial-transistors This will show you on a meter exactly what you get with a good one.
Quoted from WOLF:ok, there ya go. bad transistor. try this site http://www.pinballrehab.com/1-articles/solid-state-repair/tutorials/120-electronics-tutorial-transistors This will show you on a meter exactly what you get with a good one.
Wolf, I am getting the same reading on all the transistors, well Q23-Q27. I also just tested using the method in the link you sent me and Q23-Q27 check out. Before I was putting a lead on the tab then checking each leg.
Quoted from WOLF:Ok, did you ever take one wire off the switch?
Off the switch for the ball launcher? If so, yes I did. The coil still locked on power up.
Ok, rule out a stuck or bad switch. back to the board. As the trans tested ok, the next thing is the diode behind it, I think. This is where I have to yield the floor to someone more experienced. I'm not too knowledgable about data east, and don't want to throw you on the wrong track. I'm not sure all the other test procedures are the same as bally / stern. Sorry.
Quoted from WOLF:Ok, rule out a stuck or bad switch. back to the board. As the trans tested ok, the next thing is the diode behind it, I think. This is where I have to yield the floor to someone more experienced. I'm not too knowledgable about data east, and don't want to throw you on the wrong track. I'm not sure all the other test procedures are the same as bally / stern. Sorry.
Thank you for all your help tonight!
Last thing I would like to throw out there tonight. I tested the TIP36C transistors. Below is a pic for reference. I measured this using the diode setting on my DMM with the red lead on the top leg. The numbers below are the 2 readings I got by touching the black lead to the middle and bottom leg.
Q5:
228
220
Q4:
000
000
Q3:
225
217
Q2:
227
218
Q1:
1
217
Shouldn't all these readings be fairly close together? The Q1 and Q4 ones worry me.
I have a LW3 (no problems or anything) and just was trolling around and read the thread briefly to see where this was going......
No comment on how to fix problem , but a BIG SHOUTOUT about how helpful people are here on PINSIDE!!!!
YOU GUYS WOULD MAKE YODA PROUD: ......."IMPRESSIVE".........
great group, I was waiting for a pinsider to drive over to make an old-school doctors visit house call to get this guy playing pinball again!!! HA
awesome!
Quoted from WOLF:One question - on the scheme it appears D-20 & R-18 go with Q-4,but in the pic it looks like D-18 & R-16 go with Q-4, what gives there?
yeah i know, probably just the way it's mounted on the board and from his reading it's gotta be Q4.
so the first time i checked that's what i saw, i couldn't tell where it was coming from...
.
Picture 2.pngQuoted from beatmaster:yeah i was gonna say check Q4.
i went back to check the manual again, it's gotta be a bad transistor and found that my page was cut in half, so photoshop and now stitched together, yeah i think Q4 is your best bet now.
Thank you beatmaster and everyone else that commented! I would never have found that in my manual... I'm still getting the hang of trying to read the schematics.
It looks like I'll be ordering a new transistor today. I suppose I should order some other various transistors just in case. I'll keep you all posted on the progress! THANKS AGAIN!
no problem, that's what pinball is all about!
make sure the diode on the new coil is mounted in the right direction, just compare with the old one if you're not sure. same thing for the wires.
My parts will hopefully be here tomorrow or Friday. I have a few questions though.
In the fourth post above I posted a pic that shows C9 disconnected. This is on the power supply board. Should it be connected? The note in my manual about C9 being disconnected is on the flipper board schematic, so I would think that applies to that board and not the power supply board.
Secondly, when replacing the TIP36C transistor I know that I need to replace the pre-driver transistors. However I cannot find where they are. There should be a TIP102/122 and a 2N4401 according to http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/desega/index1.htm. Does anyone know where those would be? Or how I would go about finding them in my manual?
Just wanted to provide a little update for anyone following along.
I replaced the bad TIP36C at Q4. I tested all the pre-driver transistors (I figured out where they were), and they all checked out. I powered up the machine and there was no smoke or blown fuses and was able to start a game. Everything in this thread seems to have been taken care of!
Now I am having issues with the ball trough. When a ball goes into the trough it is not being kicked over. So the balls just kind of pile up. I am going to do a little research on this today and with any luck take care of it tomorrow afternoon.
Thanks for all the help everyone!
Quoted from gern:Just wanted to provide a little update for anyone following along.
I replaced the bad TIP36C at Q4. I tested all the pre-driver transistors (I figured out where they were), and they all checked out. I powered up the machine and there was no smoke or blown fuses and was able to start a game. Everything in this thread seems to have been taken care of!
Now I am having issues with the ball trough. When a ball goes into the trough it is not being kicked over. So the balls just kind of pile up. I am going to do a little research on this today and with any luck take care of it tomorrow afternoon.
Thanks for all the help everyone!
happy you fixed one problem.
when the balls go in the trough does count points, if not i might be a switch, or does the machine look for a missing ball ? that will also be a switch.
or again you need to change another transistor.
beatmaster, when the balls go into the through it does not count points. But in the diagnostic test the switch registers. I started a new thread detailing everything here: http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/lethal-weapon-3-balls-piling-up-in-outhole-how-should-this-process-work
Is there a way to mark this thread as solved so I don't have 2 threads going on at once?
Quoted from gern:Is there a way to mark this thread as solved so I don't have 2 threads going on at once?
edit your first post and change the title.
looking at the manual right now...
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Somers, IA
Beauharnois