well I got the gearbox fixed ...

now Im having a tilt issue that happens when you hit the drop targets to hard , or there posts around them ..

it happens almost every game , I did notice that the same wires that are going to the tile mech are also the same wires that are going to the drop target bank ? white with blue spots ..

any ideas? Im lost on this one ...I did just order the ball trough plastic piece because I think the balls in the machine are the chrome type , magnetic problems?

anyone want to trade for a fishtales?

thanks TJ

It could be a bad/shorted diode or a loose wire on one of those switches that are in the same row.
Put the game in switch test and start testing the switches to see if they register properly.Those drop targets are optos so look into the other switches first.

Dawson said:

I did just order the ball trough plastic piece

Well worth the money. I was having issues with my JD and that fixed one of them. Just got it "credit dot free) Knock on wood(real hard) Hope ya get the fix for the tilt

Pinmike .. just checked switch 57 ..... thats the E on the JUDGE drop target .. not working ...

I guess I should replace that diode first , any way to test that thing ?

im guessing that the opto is the switch , sorry if thats a stupid question these DMD games are new to me ..

thanks for the help on that Its really appreciated..

Soapman said:

Dawson said:I did just order the ball trough plastic piece
Well worth the money. I was having issues with my JD and that fixed one of them. Just got it "credit dot free) Knock on wood(real hard) Hope ya get the fix for the tilt

thanks ... that part from pinbits was FREE wow those are great folks over there

the funny thing about that switch is that ...... on my F 14 tomcat I had a phantom tilt issue and the switch was on the left slingshot , switch 57 , I cut it away and it fixed the problem ... so the sling don't score points .. but what the hell it dont tilt ...

weird they are the same switch number

TJ

Dawson said:

Pinmike .. just checked switch 57 ..... thats the E on the JUDGE drop target .. not working

Checking the manual the slam tilt is not in the same row as the drop targets.

Check the Slam tilt it's location is on the coin door,Make sure the contacts are not to close.If they are just bend it back a bit.Also,Check the Plumb bob tilt and make sure it's in the center.There is a diode and you can test it with your meter.Power off the game
1.Set meter to diode setting
2.Place black probe on banded side of diode
3.Place red probe on nonbanded side of diode
4.A reading of .4 or .6 should be seen on your meter

5.Reverse the probes,Black probe on nonbanded side and Red probe on banded side of diode.A Zero reading should be seen.If you see a reading it's indicating a bad/shorted diode.

Dawson,Switch 57 is the "G" on the JUDGE drop targets,Those drop targets J-U-D-G-E are all optos and if one is not registering it's due to a bad/faulty/dirty opto on that drop target board they are "U" shaped.There is a coil that pops those drop targets back up..Check the wires on that coil and there is a switch #37 "Subway enter 1" it's were the ball falls in behind those drop targets when they are knocked down.Check the wires on Switch #37 and can be accessed from under the playfield.

Btw,Optos do not have diodes

should this be plugged in ?

Im not sure where it goes and it my be an extra?
it was that way when I got the game apparently ,

_{Post edited by Dawson : awful spelling}

Dawson said:

should this be plugged in ?

Nope,Leave them unplugged there's no use for them.

well the tilt is not coming from the drop target bank ... it is coming from the three stand ups targets next to the drop target bank ..

when I touch the target it yells warning , 2 more times and it tilts ..

I will get into it tonight

TJ

Dawson said:

when I touch the target it yells warning , 2 more times and it tilts ..

Check the for any loose wires on those targets and test the diodes on each one.

Pinmike Thanks for that input , I've checked all Diodes on those switches and all the diodes on that switch column ...

this pin has another issue that I was unaware was not working ... of course all the switches in the 3 bank target trigger the tilt , Row 8 column 1, but

then I realized that the whole row of column 2 is not working at all ... slam tilt , front door, top right extra ball post, captive ball 1, mystery?

I feel like I got a real lemon here , I haven't even played a full game yet , and Ive had this thing for almost a month

.. thanks for any help , could I be a transistor fried in that row , I did also notice the bottom door switch was unplugged... ( this I did not see when I bought the game )

thanks
TJ

Dawson said:

Pinmike Thanks for that input , I've checked all Diodes on those switches and all the diodes on that switch column ...

this pin has another issue that I was unaware was not working ... of course all the switches in the 3 bank target trigger the tilt , Row 8 column 1, but

then I realized that the whole row of column 2 is not working at all ... slam tilt , front door, top right extra ball post, captive ball 1, mystery?

I feel like I got a real lemon here , I haven't even played a full game yet , and Ive had this thing for almost a month

.. thanks for any help , could I be a transistor fried in that row , I did also notice the bottom door switch was unplugged... ( this I did not see when I bought the game )

thanks
TJ

Sounds like The U20 IC on the CPU board has gone bad,Check and see if that IC is socketed on your CPU.

I didnt mention that one of the molex pins in J207 and one in J208 were only putting out 5.8 volts while the others were putting out 11.58 volts

these where the pins to column 2

this might be a problem ? I never got the chance to look at U20 were would I find a replacement ?

thanks a bunch pinmike . I looked back at your issues with JD and I appreciate al the help.

BOP is on the back burner....

Tj

Do the standard switch matrix test to see if it is playfield or CPU board related.
Pull connectors J209 and J207 from the board and Put the game into switch edge test.
Using a short jumper wire, touch each pin on the board of J209 to each pin of J207.
Follow the switch matrix chart in the manual that will show you what each intersection of J209 and J207 should be.See if all switches report correctly.

J207 and J206(Both are the same) runs the column switches.
J209 and J208(Both are the same) runs the row switches.

Dawson said:

I never got the chance to look at U20 were would I find a replacement

The U20 chip is located right under the batteries on the CPU,On some boards this chip is socketed but some are not.If it is socketed it can be removed very easily with a small screwdriver,If it is not socketed there's some soldering work that's gonna have to be done to remove it.

Here's the U20 part and sockets should be bought also so that way it will be socketed and not soldered directly on the CPU board.

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=569&parent=0

Pinmike ... Wow thanks again for the advice and the link .. all of column 2 was out when I used the ol' standard matrix test ..

the rest of the switches seemed fine . no tilt reading on the 3 bank target ?
the chip is not socketed .

but I have replaced chips before and installed a socket too... I used a solder sucker... is the solder braid better? I do know that getting that area too hot will destroy things quickly...

thanks for your wiseness
I will place the order tomorrow

TJ

Dawson said:

Pinmike ... Wow thanks again for the advice and the link .. all of column 2 was out when I used the ol' standard matrix test ..

the rest of the switches seemed fine . no tilt reading on the 3 bank target ?
the chip is not socketed .

but I have replaced chips before and installed a socket too... I used a solder sucker... is the solder braid better? I do know that getting that area too hot will destroy things quickly...

thanks for your wiseness
I will place the order tomorrow

TJ

No problem TJ and your very welcome,Here's a link telling you everything you need to know on IC's and circuit boards.Yes the U20 chip removal/replacement should be handled with extra care.
This info is from Clay(He's the best of the best) and has the best info on the net.

http://www.pinrepair.com/begin/index.htm

Just got back from a business/play trip . I needed the socket and Gary at pinball life said he don't have it , so I am going to order it from mouser .. but the gal said there were two different sockets and I better check to see which is right..

Basic, its either strait or kinked, I believe its the strait socket.!

thanks

Dawson said:

Just got back from a business/play trip . I needed the socket and Gary at pinball life said he don't have it , so I am going to order it from mouser .. but the gal said there were two different sockets and I better check to see which is right..
Basic, its either strait or kinked, I believe its the strait socket.!
thanks

you can get the chips and sockets at marcospecialties also

JD update......... well I installed the new socket and chip. and I was very happy it came out perfect and went in very nice ,if I do say so myself

this fixed the row of switches that were not working ..
but did not fix the tilt issues

I replaced all the diodes on all the switches in the plum-bob row.. some times the switch in the ball kickback reads (E)judge thats a white/violet wire.

I just set the tilts to 10 people were really wanting to play and so was I
but she is still not working right ..

TJ

For sure there is a reversed diode somewhere in the column/row. The diode band should be facing in the direction of ground. This is common.

Also, check the diodes on the start button, launch buttons, etc.

wbradley said:

For sure there is a reversed diode somewhere in the column/row. The diode band should be facing in the direction of ground. This is common.
Also, check the diodes on the start button, launch buttons, etc.

there are no diodes on the launch buttons , at least on my machine

also , is there a way there can be a mass diode extinction ? it seems like I have a shitload of diodes that are not reading between 533 and 580 ... im getting triple zeros ...

this game is insane

thanks TJ

Are you sure you don't have 1 reversed diode?
I still say you have a reversed diode on the switch that triggers the tilt. Testing a diode, Black wire on banded side.

sounds good , but the switches don't seem to work when I reverse them diodes ..

plus, them wires are yellow ,

Im pulling hair next the teeth

TJ

taking er in

Sorry maybe I should explain better. To test a diode with a DMM you set the DMM to buzz out resistance (the OHM symbol or diode pic). Touch the black probe to the banded side of diode, red to the other side.

Don't reverse all the diodes. That's a waste of time. For every switch you have a solid wire supplying current, and a 2 colour wire that sends the current to ground when you close the switch. The diode band should be going toward the return (2 colour wire). Do a visual inspection and you are bound to find one reversed. If you've already replaced all the ones in the row/column then none are defective. A switch might just be miswired, in a way that when it closes the circuit is completed without going through the diode.

Its has got to be a switch mis-wired ... I could not find a bad Diode , anyone with a JD want to take a picture of the wiring of the three bank target ...

thanks
TJ

B U M P

thanks

Don't have much to add, but I have a TFTC that tilted every time I hit the ramp. What was the problem? Nothing but a reversed diode on a switch.

I will get you photo of mine. I have to pack it up next week and will try to take a pic of it before I do. If not it will be the first of next month. Moving

h soap I will post a picture of mine too , the thing thats funny is , that if they are not wired right they do not work ..( the switches...) thats what I have found with the diodes , the ones I flipped around made the switches not work ... don't get it ...

I having switch issues with the GENIE now too.. 1 switch activates 5 switches... its all tied in WTF

Thanks TJ

so now the switch in the rocket launch is activating the rocket launch coil upon activation ...

I see where the Lights Diodes are band twards 2 color wire but the switched appear right , band goes to the leg with no wire attached , middle wire is the ground ...green/brown

violet/white wire is the power

TJ

thanks

I have found that wiggling the PC board thats on the brop target bank , I was setting off the <J> and <D> drop targets at the same time, so I replaced the molex tested all the resisters , diodes on that board all seemed fine, the yellow and gray wires must be connecting somewhere? but there in different rows? OMG I have put an incredible amount of time on this one simple issue ..

any thoughts , should the fire buttons on the cabinet have Diodes? , because those switches don't..

THnak you all

Tj

_{Post edited by Dawson : worded the question different}

Bumper post

Dawson, got busy and had to pack it quickly. I will try to get it when I set it back up. It is do a good shoppin so I should be able to do it then.

Im heading to Alaska friday for the guide season , so no hurry ... I just hate having a funny machine on the floor that people are paying to play.... I have the tilts set at 10 ... I may just unsolder the switches...

super game will make her tilt

Pictures of the two fire buttons, no diodes, and the 3 target bank (I'd thought that's what you'd needed when you'd posted in my thread). The 3 target bank's not as good a picture as I'd like, but I think you'll get it, if not, I'll try and take some clearer ones.

http://imgur.com/a/eDi0k#0
http://imgur.com/JaidT

Dawson said:

there are no diodes on the launch buttons , at least on my machine

Probably on the coin door interface board.

LTG

Dawson said:

I replaced all the diodes on all the switches in the plum-bob row..

I wouldn't go replacing stuff unless you know it's bad.

And don't over think this, you have a basic switch matrix problem.

Switch wired wrong, diode reversed, or a short to switch wiring or switch lugs. And it can be anywhere in the game.

Give things a quick look see. Williams used a simple wire code for their switch matrix. Comparing switches helps you understand it. Just white wires and green wires. Different color stripes too but for basic checking just worry about the base color.

On a micro mini switch you have three lugs, two close together on one farther away. The two close together - the outside one gets the white wire and black end of diode, the middle one gets the green wire, and the far one gets the silver banded end of the diode.

Start digging, both sides of playfield and be sure nothing on top of coin door is hitting the front underside of playfield. Go over ramps too for pinched wires and stuff punded into switch lugs.

LTG

LGT thanks , It seems so simple , some where in the game there is a yellow crossed with a grey, I have been over everything I can think of .... all switches ,tested all Diodes I can see

Maybe I will test at the board in the BB... I have replaced a switch matrix chip , and that fixed some of the issues ...

Im heading down right now to fix(try to ) JD and My Genie is also having switch issues , thanks to Pascal I think I have that one figured out

I will take pictures when Im down there ..

thanks for all your suggestions

tj

I may have located the problem ..

the diodes on a two switches read 000 both sides unless the switch is activated ...then it reads .5-.6

bad switch? it reads on the matrix fine!

still have phantom tilts on JD

thanks
TJ

Did you unplug that extra plug from the board that you asked about earlier? If you plug that in, you will get all sorts of weird issues.

yeah, I never plugged that in ...that could be bad

I so confused , why does the diodes on the air raid switches diodes read 000 both directions . unless I close the switch and then they read right ?

I cant seem to find the issue , diodes reversed ..... cant find it

anything?

thanks \\

TJ

Just had the same problem with my Embryon. It took pretty much a shotgun approach till I actually found out what the source of the issue is...

- First I replaced all diodes and caps on PF, figured it would be that or one is reversed, nope.
- I had already rebuilt the power supply so i had a solid 5 volts.
- replaced all the 490uf and ~370uf caps at J2/J3, still random tilt/slam reset
- I repinned the connectors for the switches thinking it was a bad connection, nope.
- I then removed the wires from the slam switch, tilt plum bobs and leaf tilt switch, flipper activity would STILL cause it to reset/tilt/slam.
- Changed the PIA's at U10 and U11, nope.

FINALLY, I got around to really going through the MPU -35 board with a fine tooth comb. I also removed all the chips, cleaned the pins, and changed any sockets that looked marginal. Painfully with a DMM i made sure all the resistors were in spec. There were a few resistors that were part of the switch matrix that were more than 5% out of spec, and I decided to replace all the various capacitors on the board.

***There are eleven .01uf 50V caps that are part of the switch matrix and PIA's....I changed all of those with new ones, and guess what? It hasn't reset or tilted since I replaced them (knock on wood) I think you might find this is where you are having trouble.

Dawson said:

I so confused , why does the diodes on the air raid switches diodes read 000 both directions . unless I close the switch and then they read right ?

I cant seem to find the issue , diodes reversed ..... cant find it

anything?

thanks \\

TJ

You have to remove at least one leg of the diode to get an accurate reading.

Diode has a silver band on one end, the other long black end goes to white wire.

LTG