Very personal opinion. Some folks only love the newer games. I'm personally really enjoying EMs now. It's a much simpler ruleset. Most EMs are just about getting the high score or the specials. No modes. No magnets, spinners, etc.
Real bells, real chimes, knockers...

Not to mention you can't really plan an EM without learning to nudge the machine. It's a whole different aspect and I actually find the EMs more challenging.

That said...you just may not appreciate them, they aren't for everybody!

My entry into the hobby was a EM (which i restored, thanks to a few here on PINSIDE). Now i have a SS and DMD games.

You may never like an EM, and frankly thats OK. Honestly, i play my others more, due to the greater complexity of the machines. But when i dont want to think, and just play.... the EM gets the nod. It's really all about getting the score. The play is slower, but it also makes it a bigger challenge. Mine is a drain monster; so it needs more nudging than any machine i have.

Theres a reason that EMs are cheaper...Most people are chasing the newer DMD machines, for the same reasons you have already found.......

Just go have fun, and dont worry about it.

Are you looking for specific EM game recommendations? Everybody has a different take on it. Coke or Pepsi, Ford or Chevy (or Toyota?) In this case, Gottlieb, Williams, Bally, etc. Personally, I love Gottlieb drop target games from the 70's. There are many reasons why, but best for you to play a few (even virtually will help) before you pull the trigger.

Good Luck, and welcome to the hobby!

FIREBALL = king of all EMs

It's sometimes hard to appreciate an older technology when you where raised on something newer. It's not impossible, but like fine wine, takes time to acquire a taste for it.

Look at it this way. I love to fire up an Atari 2600 emulator sometimes and play Pitfall, or play an old text adventure once in a while. But it's hard to see any 10 year old kid today finding any of these things fun.

I was raised on SS Pinball, but I'd like to get an EM for historical purposes. I think with time and the right theme, I will learn to love it as well.

soo true!

Funny I am the opposite I feel the newer games are like newer cars.
IMO too many bells and whistles on the SS`s for me.(not saying I would not take one)
What I feel is I would rather have an older corvette (more user input and simple function w/amazing style lines)versus a newer one (aerodynamic /no freestyle look to it)

It stands the test of time with me as I played EM`s more as a kid and the art work on those machines were very free flowing designs unlike newer movie/music bands/tv themed styled.
The EM`s can also be fixed w/simple tools and you actually see how they function unlike the cpu controlled SS pins =More expensive to repair.

If you feel its slow >increase the pitch from 3-1/2 degrees closer to the modern pins pitch that will speed it up to your preference.

But they can both exist to feed the needs of all pinballers old and young alike.
Maybe its a generation thing?

The cool pinball machine made recently marries both eras with the King of Diamonds.
>> http://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?any=king+of+diamonds&sortby=name&search=Search+Database&searchtype=quick#5239 <<

Notice the resurrgence of the Camaro /Mustang/Challenger >same concept on a style that can be brought back and be sold today that never loses its classic appeal.

I've only just gotten into EMs.
I was a hard and fast DMD guy (still am) but the appeal of these older pins is strong. For me it is about the cool art and the romance of the chimes and mechanics of the score reels etc...
However, these games are also punishing. You really have to work and have some honed skills to do well on an EM. They may not have flashers and digital sounds and no modes to speak of, but anytime you see an EM at a PAPA event, it kicks the pro's butts!

I'm definitley starting to appreciate them for what they are, and not drawing comparisons to other games that are 20-30 years newer.

It's true that high scores, specials and replays are the goals of most EMs, but a few really have some cool strategy. I like single player wedgeheads. That's my thing. Single player EMs have better rules becasue they dont have to re-set for every new player. This makes the challenges more progressive. I also prefer the 3" flippers in the 70's Gottliebs and later over the smaller flippers in older games.

I picked up a Centrigrade 37 and a Spin Out.

C37 has the great animated thermometer in the back box and your goal is to get it up to the top to light the special. You can also get to Double Advance via the drop targets in order to get there more quickly and only lit inserts will move the thermometer. It is very interactive.

Spin Out has the great roto-target depicting the places in the race and you have to try and collect 4 numbers in sequence to get a replay. However, if you can collect all the numbers and avoid the #4 until the end you can score a secret multi-replay award. Again, very tricky and interactive (for a nearly 40 yr old pin).

My next one will be an El Dorado. Just tons of drop targets, roll-over switch and other stuff to do.

I think you just have to find a game that has an intersting objective and a way of acheiving it. Some of the card games, pool-based games and even bowling ones are very fun!
Get to the PHOF and try a bunch. They are frustrating and will keep you popping in more quarters

IMO:

I would also say EM`s are like a BEER (leans more blue collared)
Where S/S`s are like a WINE . (too much $$ which leans toward a white collars pay)

I hope i didnt open a can of worms.

I am an EM guy and I respect your interest. I am kind of the that way with the 30s mechanical machines. I'd like to own at least one as I respect their history and I find them interesting, but I don't anticipate it being the first game I want to play when I enter the game room. If it's not your main interest you really can't force it. With that said I've seen a lot of long time collectors gravitate in different directions after awhile. It's fun after you played so many games of an era to discover something completely different.

I guess one question I have to ask is what have you played so far. I've seen Neo say how most EMs aren't worth more than $200 etc. But when you look at the ones he has owned briefly most were turds and it's understandable how he wouldn't find them enjoyable. To a late model guy they may all look similar but trust me there is a ton of variation between different machines.
Alex

As with any pin, quality/fun factor varies among titles. But there are tons of EM games that are as much fun pinball-wise as any modern game. Focus is generally on skills and basic (but not always easy!) strategies. EMs aren't necessarily slow. A well-shopped EM is fast and zippy. 70's WMS EMs tend to be zippier in my experience. Also, many people don't realize that a shallower pf tilt tends to make a game *harder* than a steep one. It's harder to trap/cradle a ball when the pf is flatter; a steep pf makes the ball drop more directly to the flippers and stay there, so it's easier to control.

I tend to prefer EMs that have drop targets and/or spinners. Faves include the Sonic games, 70's WMS games, and a bunch of the 70's BLY games that have orbit lanes with crazy spinners. There's a lot of pinball fun to be found in EM games.

EM games, which I did not grow up with, are certainly fun in their own way. For me it's the simplicity of them tied together with the difficulty. Seriously some of these games are basically hitting 5-10 drop targets....AND IT'S FRIKKIN HARD! I was playing Buckaroo last night & when I broke 1,000 points I felt like I accomplished something. Now that's a game...you have 5 balls...you can put them all in play at once if you want...it's up to you.

You would also be amazed at how advanced some of these games are. Like Vidman said take a look at Fireball. We tend to think newer games are so amazing because there's a a stupid action figure that moves back and forth...take a look at the damn flippers physically moving their position...you don't see anything like that today.

I'll always prefer DMD games, but the EMs are growing on me. Plus, I think the bells and chimes are kind of soothing

Here's a good place to start for virtual pinball, all free, you just have to sign up, install the program, and download the games/roms, etc. There are tutorials there that should help (it's not that obvious what to do with the files). Many classic games from all eras are there to try out. Depending on who created the emulation, some are very close to the real thing.

http://www.vpforums.org/index.php?s=e55a86e90afb36ccf3f7cbc148ad4065&act=portal

One of the things I love most about EMs is how you can teach the rules to a beginner in about 15 seconds. Since shots aren't nicely returned to a flipper by a ramp, there is a lot more randomness in the games, further narrowing the gap between beginners and experienced players.

I've had some great games playing my Card Whiz with my Dad. He could care less about the DMD games I have.

There's still some good strategy in these games, though. On Card Whiz, the drop targets you have knocked down get combined to make "poker hands" that are used to determine how much bonus you receive. By looking at which hands you're close to completing, you can decide which targets are best to shoot for. You also have the risk/reward of collecting jokers prior to knocking down drop targets. The more jokers you collect, the more you'll get for the drops, but you're risking draining before collecting the drops.

I grew up as a kid in the 60's and 70's so I have a certain expectation of what a pinball machine should be, you know like having Score Wheels, knockers, relays buzzing, and that electro-mechanical smell that only an EM can give you.

I have a connection to them from the past as that is what I grew up with so that is where my love for them comes from so I understand you not having a connection with them.

Best thing for you to do is go to a place that offers EM pins like the PHOF and spend a couple days playing different makes and models and see if you find a brand and type that is fun for you.

If for some reason you cannot connect with an EM and it just doesn't do it for you then stick to the SS/DMD ones as that is your connection, nothing wrong with that.

The main thing is if you love pinball then have fun with whatever floats your boat.

Ken

Yeah you can lose people real quick with DMD eras. I still have to explain all other games to my Girlfriend in TZ terms. "Hit that shot...it's like the piano...it starts these things, which are like the door panels."

Naw just looked it up.

Thats one thing i definately do. 3.5 is just too slow for me unless its a wood rail or older machine.

I set my 1970s EM to 6 or so and they play just like my Flash SS.

--Jeff

can opened! You need to make it to Texas Pinball and ill show you come beers that are waaaay more elite and way better than even some of the better wines

__Jeff

A brewpub I frequent >> http://selinsgrovebrewing.com/about << then Click Beer
Beer w/seasonal flair ,just gotta be careful they are very strong Abv No DWI yet

Looks right up may alley. Love me some good beer!!

Gtb. games from the late 50s- 60s had more ways to win credits
more deeper then the more popular 70s games

I'm not reading what everyone else has said, but i think you just need to try them every now and again and see if something clicks eventually.

While you are looking for an EM game, keep in mind that there can be huge differences between replay and add-a-ball siblings. For home use, I like the add-a-ball games, as you can extend your playtime in a single game. However, some games are more fun with the replay versions.... There is a massive difference between a Gold Strike and an El Dorado, for example, even though both are single player games with the same playfield layout. I'm a fan of drop target games also, although there are certainly all kinds of other fun games that involve roto-targets, swinging targets, roll-overs, roll-unders, etc.

Try as many as you can...just like newer games, some games are dogs and others can be real sleepers. There's also a big difference in games with 2" flippers vs 3" flippers. Most folks new to EM's like the 3" flippers a lot better but the 2" flipper games can grow on you...it all depends on the title and whether you are willing to invest a little time in a game before deciding whether it is a good one or not. Playing 2 games on a title and walking away saying 'it stinks' won't help much...although there are games that are like that. Just play as many as you can and enjoy yourself. I have a Palace Guard that when I initially looked at it, I said 'man, I don't like those long slingshots much' but once I started playing it, I got hooked! Really fun game that can drive you crazy with the snap-targets moving just as you want to shoot for them. I find I play that game a lot....you just never know! Some of the previous comments are right on about learning to nudge a game - playing an EM without nudging can make for a mighty quick game! Nudging to keep the ball alive is part of the joy of playing EM's.

Good luck - but beware, you may be on a slippery slope and your game count may start climbing rapidly!

It's funny, when I got in the hobby of owning pins, I initially wanted only EM's. Trouble was, the first couple that I came across were 70's Bally SS pins (and an allied leisure SS, my first.)

Pins 5 and 6 are EM (Williams super star, Williams gulfstream) and I find myself playing the super star more often than the others!

Guess I like the "vibe" of the EM's more...

Also, as stashboy suggested, vpforums is awesome. I use visual pinball it to play the pins I don't have, but like (more modern ones) and to check out a pin I might be interested in buying to get an idea of how it will play in the real world. The sims aren't perfect, but they're pretty darn close. Well worth the time to set up. There's a YouTube vid out there that is very helpful in getting it setup. There a re more EM tables available for futurepinball, though, and it's easier to set up.

Search for videos by tehkgeek for visual pinball & HyperPin setup info.

Yup. I like to have one around in no small part because it's the machine that sounds and feels like I remember pinball being when I was a kid. Plus, as others have said, it's very challenging to play well, despite the fact that it is slower.

I'm a DMD guy....mostly. Funny thing is I grew up playing the late 70's early 80's SS machines.

But the first pinball I ever played was a 1965 Gottlieb Dodge City. My Uncle had one in his basement (The reason I have any in mine now) and I thought that was the coolest thing ever.....an actual arcade machine in your home...who knew? My brother and I would play that thing all evening.

From about the ages of 12-15 vids really took over and dominated my allowance spending. Asteroids, Pac Man, Joust, Galaga, Defender and my favorite Robotron 2084. But I always played a few games of pinball when I came across them.

I'll still play the EM's on occasion and usually have fun with it. Don't know if its more nostalgia or just an appreciation for the game in its own right. Someday I hope to add one or two to my collection. Maybe I'll even come across another "Dodge City" and kill two birds with one stone.

I love EMs. In fact, I'm just warming up to the more modern machines with all the bells and whistles and toys and blinking and buzzing and flashing lights. I'd much prefer a room full of chimes and bells (with some rock playing in the background) before I can take the cacophony of voices, music and sound effects coming from a bunch of more modern machines (can't hear the music over the din).

Firstly, I grew up with EMs - and I think that's a significant point. Just as younger folks who never knew a time without computers, DVR, internet, etc can't imagine or appreciate (the nostalgia of) a time without these technologies, I think EMs tend to be seen as old-timey.

Second is the actual technological differences between older and newer machines - particularly in the areas of power and mechanics. The heart of any pinball machine is power, and how that power can be transformed into kinetics. EM machines generally have less power available to move the ball around as quickly as more modern machines. This tends to give the impression they are slower machines - which, for some reason tends to give the impression that they are easier machines. The ramps, holes, subways, wireframes and other toys available on new machines simply add to the impression.

Lastly, I think the scoring of EMs compared to SS/DMD machines contributes to the impression. When the free game score of an EM can be achieved by simply launching the ball on a newer machine, its hard for younger players to relate to the score inflation - kinda like comparing 1976 dollar value to 2012 dollar value. For some its hard to compare a machine that gives 1 point for the same stand up target a newer machine will give 10K points when hit.

For these reasons I can fully see where there might not be an appreciation for EMs - particularly for those who grew up when EMs were already old.

The one fallacy I try to dispel is that EM machines are somehow easier because of all of the above. While it does take a different style of play to play an EM over a faster SS/DMD machine, the game design in relation to the technological differences makes them generally just as challenging (and fun) to play. I tend to find that playing my EMs before playing newer games improves my game on the newer machines. I guess the more patient style of play required for EMs carries over when I move to the newer tables.

While one might consider a '70s Ferrari as old and quaint compared to a more contemporary Ferrari, I would be just as happy driving either (and likely appreciate the older a bit more).

Of course, that just my opinion - YMMV

Ryan,
Some people like EM's, some like early SS and some like newer pins.
It all comes down to personal choice. Nice to hear someone that is interesting
in exploring other areas. Personally, I enjoy collecting, restoring and playing
ALL types of pins. You will find MUCH more variety in EM's than SS pins.
A couple of reasons for this; they were built far longer (1931-1977) and designers
had to be more creative to produce unique games. Go to shows and play as many
as you can. One of my favorites is Wms AZTEC. Fast game with lots of features.
Others are; Capt Fantastic, Fireball, Royal Flush and lots more. Don't discount
pre-flipper games either. Wms TORCHY has two big electromagnets on the PF
to add 'action' (crica 1947), and FORMATION (1940) is a *very* challenging pin.
The best way to get an understanding of ANY pin is
to restore one. Once you see how it works, you'll have a greater apperciation
for game play. My $.02
Steve

Don't forget the aspect of personality. So often in life, we are attracted to different things for different reasons.

I love the look, sounds and feel of older EMs but don't have any because I don't seem to have an aptitude for repairing the mechanical parts. When I go to a location with both, I always play them.

I own all DMD pins and really like them, but part of that is that I can find them in good working condition or brand new.

The picture in my avatar to the left is me at the Pacific Pinball Museum. That day is my best EM experience to date. It was a nice day and the door was open on a quiet street. The whole front room was filled with EMs. There was no loud music blaring etc. All I could hear was the ching ching ching of the old style chimes. I can certainly recognize that I prefer that based on personality.

I hope to add a few EMs to my colection one day.

Try watching some good players and see the types of strategies they go for or avoid. Nudging is huge too:

http://pinball.org/videos/tournament/papa/2012-pinburgh-division-b-finals-fast-draw/

I think it helps to compete against other players (or their scores on 1-player machines). There might be less to "accomplish" on EMs, but competition makes things more intense.

Keep in mind, just like SS and DMD's - your taste in play is different than everyone else's. Some people like TZ, other people don't. Fireball is often referred to as the best EM ever. Personally, I'm not a fan - couldn't sell mine fast enough.

Many find GTL wedge heads the better to play, I prefer WMS games like Spanish Eyes and Klondike.

The key is to play many and find your niche. Find games that are satisfying and have that "fun factor" to you. That might or might not include EM's, SS, or DMD's.

Frank -

My take-

I am a little older than the OP but only maybe 5-7 years or so. I recently finished resorting an EM machine kinda out of the blue impulse- wouldn't it be cool to try it sorta thing. I probably played a few EM in arcades when I was young but mostly had played SS. I have to say, the EM machines to me are the "true" pinball machine in that they are the first recognizable pinball machines if you look at it from purely a mechanical whats on the board and how does it work together kind of perspective.

I have now been playing my machine for about 2-3 months with friends on the weekends and very occasionally on a evening when I have 10 minutes. Here is what I am starting to find.

I have a super spin Gottlieb 1977 machine that has been clear coated.

In order to play an EM machine you need it to become a part of your body- period. Its almost like driving a real fast but small go cart on a real track, you need to lean, nudge, bump, adjust, CONSTANLY watch the ball and make adjustments to how your working the flippers and the machine as the ball begins to come back. The single biggest thing my friends and I have found, maybe the two biggest things...

1- THEY ARE HARD GAMES. Seriously, seriously hard- the ball will drain more often than not through the side outlanes if you do not know how to nudge.

2- Nudging is a seriously fun thing, it requires timing, feel, and a lot of practice.

We still have yet to hit a 100,000 point game on 5 ball!!!! But, our games now play a LOT longer and were nearly over the hump in learning how to time the flippers and aim at the same time to get a good hard shot.

In my opinion, much of the complaint about them being slow, underpowered, boring etc etc is because some of the EM games are slow, boring, and no fun. BUT. if you pick up one that has a diversity of playfield targets, a reasonable rule set, its a challenge unlike anything with a super deep box a huge electronic screen and fancy speakers and programmed LEDs with the ball flying all over the place.

They are in my opinion a very different game-

I KNOW that nudging skills and ball passing etc are a VERY big part of modern pinball- but its simply different. The old school sound, lights, bells chimes, feel, weight, and feel are very very different. I find that with my 36 year old original Gottlieb flipper coils and a rebuilt mechanism that yes, the game is weak- difficult to get the ball up the play field, hard, and generally boring.... until you figure out that its all on you. If you get your flipper timing down, nudge at the right moments and generally learn a different style of play... suddenly the ball is slamming to the top of the play field, even moving so fast that you have to be damn quick on the flippers to catch it- not for the whole game... but man when your "ON" and playing well.... its a whole body experience- very very rewarding.

To me, if I was looking for another (and I am, but I know the machine I want and only 600 were made).... I would look for theme and colors that interest you, then find a game with a decent number of DIFFERENT things to shoot at. MANY of the EM's of the late EM era are basically just a crap load of drop targets- cool if your into target shooting but I favor a more open style of play so I found one with a vari target, a roto target, and a few bonus targets with the usual pop bumpers and roll overs and I love it.

I’m sure this has been said here and elsewhere, EM’s to the hobbies “US”, seem to be as much about how it works as playing the machine. Keeping them running is as much entertainment as playing too. They are quite simple to diagnose if you are not overwhelmed with the complexity of wires and switches. Sound effects are were the newer machines really shine, as for skill there much of a muchness. If you want more speed, tilt the machine to 6 degrees and see what a different that makes.