(Topic ID: 85705)

Eight Ball Deluxe LE fuse F4 keeps blowing

By Blake

10 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 347 posts
  • 11 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 years ago by Lovef2k
  • Topic is favorited by 6 Pinsiders

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There are 347 posts in this topic. You are on page 7 of 7.
#301 10 years ago

Good to know! This info may come in handy for me someday when I get an EBD of my own!

#302 10 years ago

So after battling a bad case of bronchitis for 4 days I finally got back into the game room to work a little more on the EBDLE. So I reinstalled the bank of 7 drop targets and have ruled out them as being the problem as no fuse blows. Then I went onto hooking back up the eightball drop target and that blew the fuse. Then I disconnected that and wired up the left sling shot and that blew the fuse as well. So I'm wondering if there still is a short somewhere as these coils have tested good. I have not had a chance to test the inline drop targets or the bottom bumper of the cluster of three. Game seems to function properly as far as lights,scoring, and sound.
Thanks. Good to be back
Blake

#303 10 years ago

Glad you're feeling better! I've re-read the whole thread at this point and I wish there was something I could do to help. Here's one thing that may be useful in the troubleshooting of this game, the schematic is freely available on the internet pinball database (ipdb.org): http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/762/Bally_1981_Eight_Ball_Deluxe_Manual.pdf (schematics are toward the end of the manual)

So, just to confirm: with the 8-ball drop target reset coil and the left slingshot coil both disconnected, but all other coils connected, you get the game to boot up and you can start a game? But as soon as you connect either of those 2 coils the fuse blows?

#304 10 years ago

Almost. There is still two other coils that are not wired in. The inline drop targets(multipliers), and the bottom bumper in the cluster of three. So those two I have not tested individually to see if they blow the fuse. I will try them tonight. But if those four are disconnected then yes I can play a game with no problem.
Thanks
Blake

#305 10 years ago

So inline drop targets have been ruled out as they function properly with no fuse blowing. On to testing the bumper in the cluster of three.
Thanks
Blake

#306 10 years ago

And pop bumper blew the fuse. So as it stands, the eightball drop target, left slingshot, and lower pop bumper in the cluster of three all blow the fuse. Not sure if there is a connection between the three or not. I will check schematics.
Thanks
Blake

#307 10 years ago

When you had all of these disconnected, were the power wires (orange, right?) still daisy chained together even though they weren't connected to the coils? Or were all wires separated and left hanging?

#308 10 years ago

Here are some pics. Only orange wire is on the bumper in the cluster of three. The others are grey and red for the left slingshot and grey and black for the eight ball drop target. White wire looks to be used as daisy chain.
Thanks
Blake

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#309 10 years ago

Oh right, you only cut off the control wire. So if those coils aren't shorted then it's all in the board. That would be Q2, Q4, Q6 and their associated diodes. U1 is the predriver for all three; it could be bad as well.

#310 10 years ago

i know ive changed out a couple of those transistors and diodes. i believe it was Q6 and Q2 off the top of my head. I think its time for me to get a new U1 to rule out that.
thanks
blake

#311 10 years ago

I guess one way to tell if U1 is the culprit is to see if it is the predriver to any coils I have that are working? Would that rule it out?
Blake

#312 10 years ago

U1 is all separate circuits internally, it doesn't have to fail 100%. Also, the outputs of decoder U2 for those coils could be locked on.

Check the outputs of U2, pins 1-11 and 13-16 and see if pins 1, 3 and 6 are different from the rest. Mine read about 3.8V. Then check U1, all pins on mine read 1V or less.

#313 10 years ago

Which pin is ground? I will give this a go and see what I get.
Thanks
Blake

#314 10 years ago

According to the schematic available at ipdb.org, pin 12 should be ground. You may want to grab a copy of it just to verify. Here's the link again: http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/762/Bally_1981_Eight_Ball_Deluxe_Manual.pdf

Good luck! You've gotta be getting close to fixing this thing!

#315 10 years ago

You can use the metal shield or ground braid in the head for ground.

#316 10 years ago

Ok so on U1 - pin 15 is over 3 VDC, pin 24 is 5 VDC, pins 23,22,21 are about 1.8vdc. Pin 1 is 2.8 VDC , and pin 2 and 3 are 1.8vdc.
Thanks
Blake

#317 10 years ago

On U2 pins 2 and 3 read about 1.8vdc while the other pins on that side read less than 1vdc. Pin 24 is 5 VDC, pins 23,22,21 read about 1.8vdc, pin 15 is 3.3 VDC.
Thanks
Blake

#318 10 years ago

I'm guessing these are both out of whack so I'm going to order them both.
Thanks
Blake

#319 10 years ago

Don't know if you usually socket the chips, but it's definitely worth doing so! Sockets are cheap and make it convenient if one of them goes bad again. Might be worth getting a few extra driver transistors for stock too. Let us know what happens!

#320 10 years ago

I'm confused on your chip readings. Can you report the readings of U2 pins 1-16?

#321 9 years ago

We are talking about the U2 on the main transistor board correct? I know there is a U2 on the auxiliary transistor board as well.
Thanks
Blake

#322 9 years ago

Pin 1 is less than 1 VDC, pin 2 and 3 are 1.95vdc, pin 4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12 less than 1vdc, pin 13 is 5 VDC, pin 14 is 1.5vdc, pin 15 and 16 is 1.9vdc.
This is the readings off U2 from the main transistor board.
Thanks
Blake

#323 9 years ago

The U2 on the auxiliary transistor board reads the following.
Pin 1,2,3 less than 1 VDC, pin 4 is 3.3vdc,pins 5,6,7,8,9 less than 1vdc,pin 10 is 4.8vdc, pin 11 is 1.7vdc, pin 12 and 13 is 4.8vdc, pin 14 and 15 are less than 1vdc, and pin 16 is 5vdc.
Thanks
Blake

#324 9 years ago

Here are the readings for U2 on the PS board.
Pins 1-11 are 3.3vdc, pin 12 is less than 1vdc, pins 13,14,15,16 are 3.3vdc, pin 17 is 4.26vdc, pin 18 is less than 1vdc, pin 19 is 3.93vdc, pin 20-24 are 4.8 VDC.
Thanks
Blake

#325 9 years ago

Here are the readings for U1 on the PS board.
Pin 1 less than 1vdc, pin 2 is 2vdc, pin 3 is 2.7vdc, pins 4 and 5 are less than 1 VDC, pin 6 is .80vdc, pin 7 is 1.9vdc, pin 8 is 2.6 VDC, pins 9 and 10 less than 1 VDC, pin 11 is .80vdc, pin 12 is 2vdc, pin 13 is .80vdc, pins 14 and 15 are less than 1vdc, and pin 16 is .80vdc. And when I say less than one VDC I am saying they are measuring in mega volts.
Thanks
Blake

#326 9 years ago

By PS board I hope you mean solenoid driver board, the upper right board in the backbox. That is the only board we are concerned with now.

If that's the case, then the readings for U2 look good and the readings for U1 look suspect. I would replace U1. Hopefully, it's socketed, but if not, add a socket. It's a CA3081 and these are getting hard to find. You may have to buy a good used, tested one.

#327 9 years ago

Looks like Marcos has them for $5 each. Probably place an order today. You think I should purchase any other ICs? I think the sound isn't all there. I don't get the continuous pulsing sound that I hear when watching others pinball videos.
Thanks
Blake

#328 9 years ago

If you go into self-test and change settings 16 on up to '03' that should enable all of the sound effects. The manual explains how to step through and make changes.

#329 9 years ago

ok great i was wondering if that was normal or not. After watching the videos i think im going to like it set the way i have it.
thanks
blake

#330 9 years ago

I grew up playing the game so I'm used to the background sound, but I can understand it can be annoying. The tempo increases the longer the ball is in play and then it switches to a completely different sound, which I really like.

#331 9 years ago

^^^^I like the background sounds on those 80's games -- the sounds most people don't like.

#332 9 years ago
Quoted from Blake:

ok great i was wondering if that was normal or not. After watching the videos i think im going to like it set the way i have it.
thanks
blake

I like the back ground sounds as well, but if you don't have a battery or memory cap on the MPU, the settings will go back to 00 by default. This is for settings 16,17,18 and 19 coindoor adjustments. You also lose the HSTD without battery backup.

#333 9 years ago

Now that I have installed the NVRAM do I have the battery backup?
Thanks
Blake

#334 9 years ago

Yes all your settings should now be kept in memory.

#335 9 years ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

the settings will go back to 00 by default.

They don't actually get programmed to '00' by default when the battery dies. They don't get set at all by the game code -- so they can be any random value after the battery has failed.

Although it would have been nice, Bally didn't include a routine to test for a dead battery, and didn't really have enough backup RAM to do it anyway.

While it would be technically possible to read a value from backup RAM, and if that value was not what you expected, assume the battery died and set all the game settings to a default value, there's not enough free space on the 5101 to do it. If you didn't care about the audits, you could overwrite those and do it--but then I guess you'd have to find the code that writes the audits, and take that out, so it wouldn't interfere with your battery test code....

#336 9 years ago

just ordered the CA3081. Will let you know when i recieve them.
thanks
blake

#337 9 years ago

Here's one more thing you could try. Does the fuse ever blow with the coin door open? I would give it a try. I had a Firepower II that was blowing a fuse because of coin door wiring shorting to ground due to vibration. You might be running into similar issue.

Also, have you disconnected the coin door lockout coils? They look like a little pancake shaped coil. You don't really need that coil in the game for home use. It's not really even needed for on route either.

#338 9 years ago

Not sure but I will check that out and see if it makes a difference.
Thanks
Blake

#339 9 years ago

So I'm still waiting for the chip ordered from Marcos but in the mean time I am having the right bumper in the cluster of three continuing to fire on its own to the point wear it blows the playfield fuse. It doesn't happen all the time but seems to go off when the ball hits the other pop bumper. Not sure if it just needs to be removed and cleaned up good, or rebuilt?
Thanks
Blake

#340 9 years ago

The switch blades need to be adjusted. If the contacts are too close, vibration from the other pops will set it off, it's a common issue when there's cluster of pops like this. There should be about a 16th of an inch gap between the contacts.

#341 9 years ago

Thanks Rich! I will adjust them appropriately.
Blake

#342 9 years ago

Turns out it was a very cold solder joint that cracked and was randomly making contact.
Thanks
Blake

#343 9 years ago

I am proud to say that I am an owner of a 100% mechanically functioning EIGHT BALL DELUXE LE!!!!! Installed the new IC at U1 and then soldered back in the left slingshot, bottom pop bumper, and eight ball drop target and it was music to my ears to NOT hear any firing coils upon start up. Played a game and boy is it nice. Gameplay is fast too. So thank you folks again for the non stop efforts. Now onto reseating all the plastic light caps that have sunken into the playfield.
Thanks
Blake

#344 9 years ago

Whoa!!! After all this time, it is *done*!!!! Congratulations, Blake! I knew you guys were getting closer and closer to getting it all fixed up, and it's so great to see you've succeeded! Huge props to Lovef2k and dothedoo for their persistence and consistence! And huge props to you, Blake, for following up on every suggestion and putting in the many hours of repairing, reporting, and not giving up! This was a highly educational thread for me, and I'm sure for others too. This also stands as a shining example of what a great community we have here. This makes my day!

I look forward to seeing future progress on the game! (and since reading this thread I've decided that I need to get myself an EBD one day...)

Enjoy your fully-working game!

#345 9 years ago

Good deal! Glad it's working.

#346 9 years ago

Thanks
Blake

1 week later
#347 9 years ago

Sorry I have been busy lately and not following up. It feels good to bring these games back from the dead. When I bought my first game in 2008, I didn't know how big the hobby was and how many great people and forums were available until I started working on that first game. I'm sure this EBD will be the first of many games you will buy

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