(Topic ID: 85705)

Eight Ball Deluxe LE fuse F4 keeps blowing

By Blake

10 years ago


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  • 347 posts
  • 11 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 years ago by Lovef2k
  • Topic is favorited by 6 Pinsiders

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There are 347 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 7.
#1 10 years ago

F4 is a five amp fuse. I believe it has to do with the solenoids, so I checked all the coils for resistance and they all checked out good, above three. I did notice that in the bottom of the cabinet by the fuses and power supply one of the bridge rectifiers has a wire not connected to anything. I attached a picture below. This section of the game looks to have been altered and really can't match up anything with the schematics. The only thing that currently works is the GI lighting and I can hear the speaker come on but I have no sounds of any kind. Thanks for any help.
Blake

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#2 10 years ago

F4 does indeed feed the solenoids along with the flipper relay, and passes through bridge rectifier #2. Looking at those pics it's pretty hard to determine which is #1 or #2. And just stabbing in the dark, it appears some wires are missing from both.

#3 10 years ago

Really looks like your rectifier/power board needs to be rebuilt as those are rather shady fixes. They might work but it'll take more info to determine what is wrong. As WOLF said there could be issues with the bridge rectifier or the issues could be further up the chain - ie. shorted coil.

#4 10 years ago

Yea I can see that this is not the norm. Are those rectifiers suppose to be on the board itself beside the fuses? Looks like they have been removed and rewired. Schematics didn't show me much. I will get better pics with more detail.
Thanks
Blake

#5 10 years ago

What really worries me is the unattached wire of the one rectifier.
Thanks
Blake

#6 10 years ago

They are meant to be *under* the circuit board between the pcb and the metal base. Its very likely the original broken ones are still there.. someone who was too lazy to do it properly has just hacked in a new one

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Post edited by wiredoug: added image

#7 10 years ago

Yup here are the old ones. Also a couple better pics of the new ones.
Thanks
Blake

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#8 10 years ago

So there is a blue with white strip wire going to the rectifier from J3. A black with white stripe wire and a all blue wire going from J1 to the same rectifier. The other rectifier is not attached to anything and has the white wire coming off of it.
Thanks
Blake

#9 10 years ago

when you do it properly make sure you get the proper height ones if you put them back underneath and make them nice and level so they sit flat on the metal ( use heatsink compound).

One option is to top mount them in the same holes and fit up a new heatsink if you prefer. Some people hate the underside mount design. I find it works just fine in home use.

#10 10 years ago

Also the rectifier that has wires coming to it from J also is sending out a black with white stripe wire to the playfield and a blue with white stripe wire to the back box.
Thanks
Blake

#11 10 years ago

Are there rebuild kits for these power module boards?
Thanks
Blake

#12 10 years ago

do you have the proper schematic? once you use the proper locations again you will probably be able to just remove or re-joint a lot of the wires. no EBD le here but ill try and find you something else the same to get a pic for you. i think Centaur2 will be the same.

i saw a manual here ebay.com link: itm

it looks a bit grubby but it will have schematics.

the reason previous owner put the BR's aside is probably the fact the are blade leg style. You need wire leg style.

if you go here http://bigdaddy-enterprises.com
and dig your way through the crappy frames menu to http://bigdaddy-enterprises.com/repairkits/bally_kits.htm#b-ps54a you can find kits for these boards - AS-2518-54 Power Supply Kit

#13 10 years ago

I've traced the blue with white stripe wire to the lighting on the front of the back box.
Thanks
Blake

#14 10 years ago

Yea I have the schematics but am terrible at understanding and dissecting what I'm looking at. I will give it a go this weekend though.
Thanks
Blake

#15 10 years ago

only one way to learn jump in and have a go.

if you get over your head and decide to send the power board out to get repaired try http://pinside.com/pinball/community/pinsiders/barakandl

#16 10 years ago

That second rectifier with the loose wire must go to something. I see that they put in an inline fuse too. Not sure if that's standard but I doubt it.
Thanks
Blake

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#17 10 years ago
Quoted from wiredoug:

only one way to learn jump in and have a go.
if you get over your head and decide to send the power board out to get repaired try http://pinside.com/pinball/community/pinsiders/barakandl

As wiredoug said^^, go for it, keep us posted, people will help. I've corresponded with barakandl on the side, he's been a ton of help for me.

#18 10 years ago

Here are a couple pics of the schematics. Sorry there not to detailed. I don't see the rectifiers? I have confirmed the wires going from J1 and J3 go to the back box and the playfield. To test the coils properly do I have to remove the resistors or diodes and wiring that is attached to the lugs? I have tested them and all were over 3 ohm.

Thanks
Blake

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#19 10 years ago

Look on the schematic labled 'power supply', that's where you'll see the bridge lay-out. If you tested all coils and they're 3+ohm, they're probably ok.

#20 10 years ago

yeah .. wrong page

#21 10 years ago

Got it. Now to figure it out.
Thanks
Blake

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#22 10 years ago

I see both BR1 and BR2 but what are the two on the top or bottom that look the same?
Thanks
Blake

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#23 10 years ago

they are groups of 4 separate diodes near the fuses.

#24 10 years ago

Ok thanks.

#25 10 years ago

So as wolf stated in the first couple of posts, I have been able to identify BR2 is connected to F4 and feeds to the solenoids and flipper relay. But how do you interpret the lines and dots crossing each other's paths? I can't seem to get an understanding of what's not being fed from the rectifiers? Also do you need to desolder to test the rectifiers? And I see that BR2 is 600 ohm but is that from each of the prongs or added together?

Thanks
Blake

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#26 10 years ago

Just order the kit from big daddy. Todd is a great guy and the kit is what you need except that you'll have to too mount the rectifiers that come with his kit. Make sure the pos lead is in the right spot. You can get 600v rectifiers from pinball life that will work great and are the same height as the originals so work well to use in the original configuration. Gotta say if really helps to have a Hakko 808 for this job. Takes less than an hour to clean and rebuild one of these, a bit longer perhaps if putting in new connectors.

#28 10 years ago

If the lines cross but don't have a dot at the intersection they don't meet on the board.

#29 10 years ago

The 600 and 25 you are seeing is the resistors on the board (huge block ones)

#30 10 years ago

Ok I will order the kit and watch the videos.
Thanks
Blake

#31 10 years ago

Ok so I have done some more trouble shooting. I will be rebuilding the PS but in the meantime I figured I would just keep working at it. These are all the connections that I can see are supposed to be made from these two BRs. Keep in mind that one of these BRs has nothing connected, I believe that the is BR2. Also I have traced one of the BR1 outputs to a fuse located on the underside of the playfield. This looks to be a modification as there is a three fuse block and then this fuse installed beneath it. Pictures below.
Thanks
Blake

J3 pin 8 is connected to what I believe is BR2
J3 pin 9 is not connected to what I believe is supposed to be from BR2
J3 pin 11 is connected to what I believe is from BR1
J3 pin 12 is not connected to what I believe is supposed to be from BR2

J2 pin 4 is connected to a lamp on the coin door not the solenoid bus from what I believe is BR2

J1 pin 5 is connected from what I believe is BR1
J1 pin 7 is connected to what I believe is BR2
J1 pin 8 is connected to what I believe is BR1

image-988.jpgimage-988.jpg image-209.jpgimage-209.jpg
#32 10 years ago

Don't. Know what the fuses on the underside of the playfield control?
Thanks
Blake

#33 10 years ago

So that fuse I believe controls the lighting that runs up tight to the right side. Removing the fuse changes nothing to do with GI lighting that is working.
Thanks
Blake

#34 10 years ago

usually the under playfield fuse is for the solenoids, not real sure what's going on there though.

#35 10 years ago
Quoted from Blake:

Ok so I have done some more trouble shooting. I will be rebuilding the PS but in the meantime I figured I would just keep working at it. These are all the connections that I can see are supposed to be made from these two BRs. Keep in mind that one of these BRs has nothing connected, I believe that the is BR2. Also I have traced one of the BR1 outputs to a fuse located on the underside of the playfield. This looks to be a modification as there is a three fuse block and then this fuse installed beneath it. Pictures below.
Thanks
Blake
J3 pin 8 is connected to what I believe is BR2
J3 pin 9 is not connected to what I believe is supposed to be from BR2
J3 pin 11 is connected to what I believe is from BR1
J3 pin 12 is not connected to what I believe is supposed to be from BR2
J2 pin 4 is connected to a lamp on the coin door not the solenoid bus from what I believe is BR2
J1 pin 5 is connected from what I believe is BR1
J1 pin 7 is connected to what I believe is BR2
J1 pin 8 is connected to what I believe is BR1

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image-209.jpg 455 KB

EBD LE has 3 fuses under the pf. It looks like somebody moved the center fuse of the 3 fuse bank and added a single fuse holder in it's place? Perhaps the fuse clips are bad or tarnished from overheating. Somebody really hacked the shit out of this game. Placing the bridge rectifier on the transformer mounting plate was an actual Bally repair shown in the service manual back in the day. I learned this from an EBD that I got with a similar situation you have there. To save time, the op or tech would mount the rectifier to the transformer plate, heat sink compound should have been used, yours doesn't look that way. Another reason for this type of repair is the lugs on the rectifier, these wide lugs will not mount to the -54, you need the solder mount version. Also the bad rectifier should have been removed from the board. Here's a pic of what was in my EBD.

If I were you, I would try to find a working -54 or get the new repro A2 power supply from Marco for $99.

These pics are from the first EBD version,so the wire colors will different than the LE. The second pic is the same board where the high voltage diodes were changed without even removing the board from the game, what a thing of beauty

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#36 10 years ago

Wow, I think I saw those in a movie with Harrison Ford....lol.

#37 10 years ago

Looks like your rectifier shows no wires going from it to the back box or playfield as mine does. Your right in sayng mine has been hacked to shit. Were both of your rectifiers being utilized? I only see the one, was there one still working under the board?
Thanks
Blake

#38 10 years ago

Tomorrow I will trace the other wire leaving the rectifier and going to the back box. But so far both are just going to lighting. Also I tested TP5 which was supposed to be 43VDC and I was getting nothing but is that because of F4 being blown?
Thanks
Blake

#39 10 years ago

This game was sold by TNT Am to the person I bought it from. Here's what I did to it a year later. I like this power supply because it has voltage status LED's that let you know your voltages are within proper range.

IMG_0149.JPGIMG_0149.JPG
#40 10 years ago
Quoted from Blake:

Looks like your rectifier shows no wires going from it to the back box or playfield as mine does. Your right in sayng mine has been hacked to shit. Were both of your rectifiers being utilized? I only see the one, was there one still working under the board?
Thanks
Blake

Whoever did this should be hanged! He made it much harder than it had to be. He should have just removed the bad rectifier/s and soldered jumper wires to the remote mounted rectifier, instead of bypassing the them by removing wires and adding wires to the connector housings. My game was working as it was in the pics. My BR2 was still mounted and working. If you have GI lamps working, this means atleast BR1 is working. BR1 is your GI's and 12v for switched lamps and I believe the logic circuit. BR2 is coils and score displays from what I see on the schematic. It looks like there's another remote rectifier mounted on your game but was never hooked up? MAybe the hacker finally gave up before he set game on fire?

I have a Centaur 2 and if the wire colors is the same as EBD LE, I can send some pics to you to get you out of this mess. I also have the connector housings if you need any. The connectors for the -54 power supply are made by Amp and use .084 pins and sockets. You can buy all these from The Real Bob Roberts.

#41 10 years ago

Wow that is clean!!! So I think it's safe to say no wiring should be coming off the bridge rectifiers. Hopefully the rebuild kit will have proper installation instructions.
Thanks
Blake

#42 10 years ago
Quoted from Blake:

Looks like your rectifier shows no wires going from it to the back box or playfield as mine does. Your right in sayng mine has been hacked to shit. Were both of your rectifiers being utilized? I only see the one, was there one still working under the board?
Thanks
Blake

I forgot to mention, any wires going from the cab to backbox should be in a harness, notice each connector on the -54 is labeled, Playfield, backbox etc.

#43 10 years ago

Thanks a bunch lovef2k. It would be great if you could send picks. My email is [email protected]. Let me know what you would like for the housings as well.
Blake

#44 10 years ago

Yea I noticed that the molex connectors did not have all of the wires that the schematics showed.
Thanks
Blake

#45 10 years ago
Quoted from Blake:

Wow that is clean!!! So I think it's safe to say no wiring should be coming off the bridge rectifiers. Hopefully the rebuild kit will have proper installation instructions.
Thanks
Blake

If you didn't order a rebuild kit yet, hold off, make sure the board itself doesn't have any burnt traces. Also I bough the rebiuld kit and never used it because there's so many things that need to be changed. I'm not spending your money for you, but I would go with the Marco board for $99. The rectifiers are top mounted with large heatsinks and you don't need heat transfer compound.
Correct, no wires come off the rectifiers. The board mounted rectifiers are soldered to traces on the board. It's possible that your BR2 is running? Did you check any of the test points on the board? What actually works on your game right now?

#46 10 years ago

Here is a pick of the playfield lit.
Thanks
Blake

image-247.jpgimage-247.jpg
#47 10 years ago
Quoted from Blake:

Thanks a bunch lovef2k. It would be great if you could send picks. My email is [email protected]. Let me know what you would like for the housings as well.
Blake

Glad to help when I can. I wrote that email down if you want to delete it from this thread. Have you ever re-pinned connectors and do you have the correct tools?

#48 10 years ago

I have not ordered anything yet. There doesn't seem to be any burnt traces and I was planning on red lowing solder tomorrow. So far when turned on the GI lighting comes on and I can hear the speakers come on. No score display, no sound of any kind, although I was going to check and make sure the sound pot is working correctly tomorrow as well. And F4 blows in about a second or so. So no solenoids work, but before it blows I can hear the solenoids starting to function.
Thanks
Blake

#49 10 years ago
Quoted from Blake:

Here is a pick of the playfield lit.
Thanks
Blake

image-247.jpg 447 KB

Nice! Since I v'e been in the hobby, everyone always puts down this style cab but I kinda like it. Supposedly these were left over Rapid fire cabs and they had so many left that they made them into games like EBDLE, Mr. and Mrs. Pacman, Cent II. I like how the scores look red and you don't see the junk from the displays in the back ground. Looked high tech back in the day. I always thought these cabs were shorter than the standard cab but know that I have one, it's actually taller.

#50 10 years ago

The only connectors I've worked on are the edge connectors on arcades. And some molex. But I do not have the correct tools. Use a small flat head glasses repair screwdriver to pop them out and crimp with a pair of pliers and usually solder them.
Thanks
Blake

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