Don't look now but TRON LE is now #1

Started 1 year ago by davewth in forum PinsideWebsite.


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Don't look now but TRON LE is now #1


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  • Started 1 year ago by davewth
  • 78 Pinsiders participating in this thread.
  • Latest reply from jimjim66

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    1 year, 11 months ago
    #

    TRON LE has unseated MM as the new #1! I suspect there will be a lot of downvoting this week by people who've never played the game.


    1 year, 11 months ago
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    Thats ridiculous.....please lets not lose our integrity here.Not saying Tron isn't fun/good,but c'mon.Gotta be something else even if not MM.


    1 year, 11 months ago
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    I miss and kind of feel like I should not have sold tron, but personally I do not think Tron is better than every other game out there. But hey that's the reason we vote right, apparently it is better to the masses


    1 year, 11 months ago
    #

    Just proves that until there is at least 30 or more votes, the ratings have little meaning. You can tell me that if you take 100 random pinheads and offer them the choice of having MM or Tron (throwing out valuations) in their collection, that most would take Tron. I highly doubt it.


    1 year, 11 months ago
    #

    The more I think about it, the more I agree with that ranking. But I do not agree that it's better than AFM, TZ, LOTR, or TSPP. Then again, that's why there's a law of averages. If I got to tell everyone what the best games were, a LOT of people wouldn't be too happy about it.


    1 year, 11 months ago
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    Tron is better than MM. Looks better, sounds better, plays faster, flows better. Deserves the top spot in my view. People that feel the top ten should be stagnant and filled with games from the 90's (yes, I know LOTR and SM are there as well) are not being fair to the newer games. I too predict Tron is going to get bashed this week (lots of 3, 4 or 5 ratings by people that have never played it).


    1 year, 11 months ago
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    I have played it and rated it appropriately based on my honest feelings. JMHO.


    1 year, 11 months ago
    #

    So Tron is the best pinball machine ever created? I've played the LE and it just very little for me. Maybe you need to own it to understand. I do hope that more titles overtake MM so that maybe the price pressure comes down some on it. I just can't personally agree with this ranking.

    I have not and will not rate a machine until I can put at least 20 games on it, so I haven't submitted a rating for Tron as of yet and won't just to manipulate rankings.. I need to play it more but after 2 games I'm typically looking to move on to something else.


    1 year, 11 months ago
    #

    I own and love MM, but a lot of these negatives people are posting abut TRON are exactly the same things that some MM haters post about that game.
    I also have Tron rated over MM and I think it's fair. Both are relatively simple yet fun games, but lets not forget Tron has 14 years on MM. I think it's only natural that games get better.
    I rememeber when TAF was #1. Would anyone argue that today?


    1 year, 11 months ago
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    I still think TAF is #1 but that is my honest opinion. The game is the whole package from my perspective.


    1 year, 11 months ago
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    Whysnow said:

    I still think TAF is #1 but that is my honest opinion. The game is the whole package from my perspective.

    I agree. I love TAF, but tastes are different. There is a lot of TRON hype at the moment. I trust things will settle down where they should be once more people have reviewed the game.


    1 year, 11 months ago
    #

    In all honesty, i think it has alot to do with a small sample size. I would bet good money b/w fanboys will get this ranked lower come next week.

    I personally like both games and feel this is an apples/oranges kinda thing. I don't think either is the #1 game for me, though.


    1 year, 11 months ago
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    Personally i have only played 5 games on TRON, I have not voted yet and do not plan to vote since i need more time playing this pin. So far i am not super thrilled with the pin but time will tell and i will not vote until i at least log another 20 games on her.


    1 year, 11 months ago
    #

    Funny, they each have their haters. Mostly by those who cannot afford either game at this point and missed the boat when they where affordable. I have both and they both have their great points and a few negatives. I have Tron as a top 5 game and MM still in the #1 spot followed by AFM, MB, TOM and LOTR. To each his own, that's what makes the world go round.


    1 year, 11 months ago
    #

    opinions are like a$$ho.... hahaha Everyone has their own opinion and no one will agree with everything. I kind of enjoy something new and fresh. Just because the pinside list changed doesn't mean your personal list changed...geez some people take it as it is written in stone...


    1 year, 11 months ago
    #

    Im not going to go down vote it or anything, but I played it for the first time two weeks ago and was not that impressed. I did not like that art at all, and the gameplay way fine but not amazing.


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    1 year, 11 months ago
    #

    We'll I guess folks should hold off their opinions unless they are favorable? Give me a break.

    ctozzi said:

    Funny, they each have their haters. Mostly by those who cannot afford either game at this point and missed the boat when they where affordable.

    Complete and utter BS. If I wanted a Tron it would be sitting in my gameroom right now. Pro models can still be had for a decent price. That's a stupid blanket assumption to make. MM on the other hand at nearing 15k is getting out of my comfort level but, I've never bashed it either. For that matter I've never bashed a game just given my personal feelings without getting ignorant. Isn't that what these forums are sorta for?


    1 year, 11 months ago
    #

    I still find it very odd that lighted ramps and an extra MB mode can boost the LE into #1 while the pro is at #24. Something doesn't seem kosher

    I've played a ton of both and finally bought a pro for my own collection. There is not a 23 spot spread between these two; they are simply not THAT different!
    Personally I would not have split the two games. I think Tron is certainly worthy of the top 5 though, LE and Pro alike!


    1 year, 11 months ago
    #

    On that note, with ACDC currently at number 69, shouldn't there be separate listings between the Pro and Premium/LE versions?

    How can they be classified under one listing when one has an additional playfield, for Angus' sake.

    EDIT:
    http://pinside.com/pinball/archive/ac-dc
    Ok there is a separate listing for the Premium/LE but there are no ratings? They are all contained under the Pro version whether Pro or Premium/LE.


    1 year, 11 months ago
    #

    Lol, this is what happens when 200 people rate a game they own.

    Its a cool looking game for sure, in fact its down right beautiful.

    But #1? Nah

    Still cool tho


    1 year, 11 months ago
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    ctozzi >> you actually have tron rated as a perfect 10, followed by LOTR as a perfect 10, followed by MM and others lower on your personal ratings page.


    1 year, 11 months ago
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    bigdaddy07 said:

    MM on the other hand at nearing 15k

    I think that number is a bit high. I'd say $10K is the average right now.


    1 year, 11 months ago
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    davewth said:

    bigdaddy07 said: MM on the other hand at nearing 15k

    I think that number is a bit high. I'd say $10K is the average right now.

    "Average" assumes you can find cheaper and more expensive. I have not seen an MM under $10K for a while. Most are well over that.
    Maybe a beater MM could be had for $8K, but nobody would sell it. They'd fix it up and try to make a profit or keep it.

    Whysnow said:

    ctozzi >> you actually have tron rated as a perfect 10, followed by LOTR as a perfect 10, followed by MM and others lower on your personal ratings page.

    I dont think a game has been created that deserves that rating. Prefection should be a target that rarely, if ever, gets reached.


    1 year, 11 months ago
    #

    Remember when 24 was #1 for a week? This happens. TRON LE will settle somewhere between 10-15, I would think. Of course, the downvoting will also now begin, so it could tank.


    1 year, 11 months ago
    #

    It will take time for all the pro and con people register their rankings. It should level out once most of the rankings are in. Every game has it's haters and lovers, some people will never love Sterns and some people will never love MM or MB. No game I can think of, even the worst I can think of, deserves all 1's. It is still pinball!

    I really do enjoy most newer Sterns, I have had several, they offer new game play and themes. Stern's of late? I would buy all of them if I had the extra space and money, but I do not want to sell something I know I like to buy something I may or may not like. If I had more space and money, I would buy all the new machines and I would have kept every machine I have had, I miss almost all of them with the exception of a couple.


    1 year, 11 months ago
    #

    I think the AC/DC LE is even better and will pass the TRON LE (yes, I have owned both). People will eventually have to admit that the new technology will make newer games better in lighting, animations, artwork, and even the toys will continue to get better. Better gameplay is really the only question mark. If perfection was created in the past, why bother building new homes, better cars, and cell phones? Who knows? Stern's next game may beat them all and warrant all 10's.


    1 year, 11 months ago
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    Exactly, its the transition similar to the EM era. Pins are hot again so the game is being taken up a notch and lots of cool ones are coming out. The classics are awesome and well worth owning but newer better games are on the way. It happens...


    1 year, 11 months ago
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    Yeah, lets not freak out. Its due to the Pro/LE split recently implemented. While I think Tron deserves to be a top 10 game, its going to take a decade for hype and other unknowns to equalize properly to see if it stays way up there.

    Yet another way Stern's Pro/LE model is ruining our hobby!!! (hyperbole)


    1 year, 11 months ago
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    Whysnow said:

    I still think TAF is #1 but that is my honest opinion. The game is the whole package from my perspective.

    Anyone else feels this way then I have a nice TAF to trade for MM, AFM or even TRON


    1 year, 11 months ago
    #

    I personally looking forward to the top 10 changing alot this summer! Its time for change and this year is one of the biggest for pinball since the 90's I have a MM but like seeing it get knocked off its thrown. If its not the industry isnt moving forward. Alot of games in the top 10 use to be the best but not anymore. They have so many votes its gona take quite a while until there bumped. If all this young blood in the hobby takes time to vote you will start seeing alot of change in the rankings. This is like everything else in life we get use to something and the masses are afraid of change. I say its a good thing.


    1 year, 11 months ago
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    bigdaddy07 said:

    Just proves that until there is at least 30 or more votes, the ratings have little meaning. You can tell me that if you take 100 random pinheads and offer them the choice of having MM or Tron (throwing out valuations) in their collection, that most would take Tron. I highly doubt it.

    I would take tron everytime! In fact I had the choice at the time of TRONs release for a very nice MM or tron and I went with tron.


    Russo121

    Pinball addict
    1,056,250 2
    1 year, 11 months ago
    #

    I was never a fan of the LE's lightshow (pink, in Tron?..pffftt) but i can see why its highly rated. The combos alone make it amazing and if you have the ability to play it well and get in the 'zone of flow' thers not much else out there that can match the shot satisfaction.

    I actually prefer MM as a direct comparison, but for nostalgic reasons. If i had them both, i would play Tron more i think. Possible breakages on a much more complicated pin like MM would haunt me in my sleep if i dared to play as much as i do Tron.

    Number one? not so sure there. Time will tell....


    1 year, 11 months ago
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    Can someone that likes Tron so much please try to help explain what is it that draws you in so much? I would like to figure out what I am missing. When this many people like it, I figure I must have missed a key point to it.

    I seriously do not get the appeal. To me it just seems bright and fast. The game play does not seem very deep and the shot map is nothing out of the ordinary. The spinning disc toy does nothing for me and I usually love the toys on games.

    It is a pretty machine and the backglass is really neat along with the EL light wiring. I like the gem shot but outside of that I can't figure out the mass hype of this game.


    RobT

    Pinside legend
    12,336,173 3
    1 year, 11 months ago
    #

    I haven't even rated it yet.

    When did Pinside add TRON LE as a separate pin from the Pro? Glad they did.

    I've posted before: there is no other pin out there that I would rather own than TRON LE, so obviously I don't have a big problem with it being rated so highly. Obviously I expect that it will come down a lot from where it is, and tons of people (many who probably haven't played it) will start giving it a low rating for the sole purpose of bringing it down.

    Whysnow said:

    Can someone that likes Tron so much please try to help explain what is it that draws you in so much? I would like to figure out what I am missing. When this many people like it, I figure I must have missed a key point to it.

    I seriously do not get the appeal.

    Do you really think that someone who loves TRON LE can explain why they love it, and then suddenly a light bulb will go off in your mind and you say "oh, yeah, your right, I missed that....Tron *is* great"!?

    If you don't like it, you don't like it. Nobody is going to convince you that you should like it. Not a big deal.

    EDIT: I don't see two different versions of Tron (pro and LE) so my rating *does* show up (and it is lower than the average rating lol )


    1 year, 11 months ago
    #
    Whysnow said:

    Can someone that likes Tron so much please try to help explain what is it that draws you in so much?

    Like me you are a big TAF fan. Well, take a look at Tron's layout... now flip it and you might have your answer.

    Upper left flipper to ramp shot... pretty similar to TAF
    FLYNN's arcade shot... not too different from the electric chair
    POPs behind FLYNN's... okay, you don't shoot through them like TAF, but still in a similar spot
    Similar orbit and Thing ramp is about where Quorra is. Both dump out into the orbit.

    It may not have the toys/features like TAF (vault, swamp, thing lock), but the flow and shot-map is very similar IMO.
    TAF also had great music and callouts for it's time which made it an instant classic. TRON has acheived this as well in its audio package. The game is more of an "experience".
    That being said, I have played a TRON that was not properly set up and it sucked.


    1 year, 11 months ago
    #
    Redeyes said:

    Alot of games in the top 10 use to be the best but not anymore. They have so many votes its gona take quite a while until there bumped.

    Should we adjust the Top 100 calculation formula, to make it more dynamic? Currently it's a simple as all user totals divided by number of ratings. We don't look at things like the date the rating was made (should older ratings count less?) or even the karma of the rater (more karma, more weight?) etc. etc.

    ...But as always the case with Pinside: your suggestions to improve are welcome!

    As for Tron:LE, I cannot say it's better than MM as I haven't played it yet. I did play Tron Pro at Reciprocal last month and thought it was pretty sweet but I definitely did not play enough games to add a proper rating yet. MM is a great game but personally I don't think it should be #1. Definitely a top 10 game but not the best out there.


    1 year, 11 months ago
    #

    I find TAF and Tron to be totally different. Both great in their own ways, but again nothing alike.


    pinballlooking

    Pinball addict
    1,428,750 2
    1 year, 11 months ago
    #

    I have MM and a Tron. I do not think it is better than MM. Yesterday I asked my two sons and my wife what they liked the best MM won with all of us. But it was rated above TAF, the boys and I the love to play Tron. It has that one more game appeal to me. I love and hate the Gem shot the unpredictable disc is very cool. Motorcycles and hot girls for the art with a 3D back glass what is not to like about that. You get the point…


    1 year, 11 months ago
    #
    robin said:

    MM is a great game but personally I don't think it should be #1. Definitely a top 10 game but not the best out there.

    I agree with that statement as to the #1 slot however it deserves to by up there in the top slots. For me its STTNG that deserves that slot but, I'm in the minority on that one here. That is the "pry from my cold dead fingers" title for me.

    Next time I get a chance to play Tron, I'm going to try and force some additional games in to see if I can get the hype. I love sci-fi so I was disappointed when it fell flat for me.

    There could be a valid argument on older ratings since new games come out that give a different source of measure against making the old ratings somewhat invalid today. The people whom those ratings belong to should be notified of that so they could get an opportunity to update their rating accordingly.


    Russo121

    Pinball addict
    1,056,250 2
    1 year, 11 months ago
    #

    Tron is all about the flow, the callouts that follow, the machines lightshow response and the pant wetting speed of the stackable multi's and combos. Add to that the progression to the ever elusive portal multiball and the excitement that has been built by the time you get there is pure adrenalin pumping stuff.

    It can also be the most frustrating p.o.s on the planet and its that mix of frustration and laser beam ball drains that keeps me furiously pressing the start button like a madman.

    P.s: Screaming the house down at 4.00am after being robbed from portal multiball by a dodgy scoop switch will get you a knock on the door from the police where i live.


    1 year, 11 months ago
    #

    You need to have a good game on tron to "get" it. There is no joy in about 90% of my games played on that machine but the other 10% is why you play!


    1 year, 11 months ago
    #

    Tron is the best game IMO to date. This game is fast fun and looks amazing. On the other hand, I don’t understand how it is #1 and the pro sit's down at 24. That is a large gap (IMO). The lighted ramps do a little in rating as far as look but the game either way is a 10 for looks with or without the lighted ramps. So for chrome trim (i actually like the black better), 1extra mb, and some minor odds and ends the difference is 23 spots? I guess it will pan out over the next few months and you will have all the people who played a few games on it (and got there asses kicked) will downgrade the rate. IMO and im stressing this, if I could have 1 game for free and could never sell it for any reason and had to keep it for life i would take Tron (LE or PRO) over MM, MB, AFM or any other game to date including my LOTR (this is very hard for me to admit). The music and sounds on Tron are second to no game I have ever played. Now that I own one I can judge. Every time some1 post how good a pin is it makes me want to check it out. I dont like missing out on great pins. So if you never played TRON well...find one and play it!!

    PS
    On sunday I had a shot come out of the Disk and spun up the right ramp! It almost made it all the way up. It is so amazing some of the random shots that come out of that thing.


    1 year, 11 months ago
    #
    robin said:

    Redeyes said:Alot of games in the top 10 use to be the best but not anymore. They have so many votes its gona take quite a while until there bumped.
    Should we adjust the Top 100 calculation formula, to make it more dynamic? Currently it's a simple as all user totals divided by number of ratings. We don't look at things like the date the rating was made (should older ratings count less?) or even the karma of the rater (more karma, more weight?) etc. etc.
    ...But as always the case with Pinside: your suggestions to improve are welcome!
    As for Tron:LE, I cannot say it's better than MM as I haven't played it yet. I did play Tron Pro at Reciprocal last month and thought it was pretty sweet but I definitely did not play enough games to add a proper rating yet. MM is a great game but personally I don't think it should be #1. Definitely a top 10 game but not the best out there.

    Thanks for the response Robin! I need sometime to think about that, your system is simple but effective and has been for years. Let me put some thought into it before I comment. One thing I would say is if the system changed im not sure if that would be a good thing, in that time is what really tells a games true ranking. So changing it is kinda a double negative IMO Another thread should be started based on the voting system and get eveyones opinion. If you created the post im sure it would get more attention than a nobody like me haha?


    1 year, 11 months ago
    #
    Whysnow said:

    and the shot map is nothing out of the ordinary.

    Statements like this make me laugh. MB, MM, or AFM are literally "loved" for their shot layout while Stern games are ridiculed if they have a similar layout. TF compared to MB is a good example. How can a shot map on one be "awesome" while a shot map on a newer game be "boring" if they are so similar.

    Anyway, the rankings are so skewed by bias that it doesn't really matter. Tron is going to get a massive rating down grade next week for no reason other than bias.

    I think if your ratings are not publically disclosed, they should not count in the rankings and should just be for your own personal use.


    1 year, 11 months ago
    #

    It also looks like Transformers pro and ACDC pro have fallen down the ratings, presumably because the LE versions are going to take their places. (1 more ACDC LE rating, 2 more TF Le Ratings until they hit Top 100).

    I really think the addition of the LEs is a great way forward especially in recent times when both versions differ massively. I think TRON LE is slightly hyped at #1...I think it deserves more around the #10-15 mark, but its nice to see a change even if it will just be for a week...


    1 year, 11 months ago
    #
    gambit3113 said:

    Remember when 24 was #1 for a week? This happens. TRON LE will settle somewhere between 10-15, I would think. Of course, the downvoting will also now begin, so it could tank.

    No, I don't, but i realize the correction will occur soon.


    TaylorVA

    Pinball guru
    4,812,750 3
    1 year, 11 months ago
    #
    Firebaall said:

    The rating system is garbage, if less than 30 votes for a machine can skew the standings this badly.

    +1


    1 year, 11 months ago
    #
    robin said:

    Redeyes said:Alot of games in the top 10 use to be the best but not anymore. They have so many votes its gona take quite a while until there bumped.
    Should we adjust the Top 100 calculation formula, to make it more dynamic? Currently it's a simple as all user totals divided by number of ratings. We don't look at things like the date the rating was made (should older ratings count less?) or even the karma of the rater (more karma, more weight?) etc. etc.
    ...But as always the case with Pinside: your suggestions to improve are welcome!
    As for Tron:LE, I cannot say it's better than MM as I haven't played it yet. I did play Tron Pro at Reciprocal last month and thought it was pretty sweet but I definitely did not play enough games to add a proper rating yet. MM is a great game but personally I don't think it should be #1. Definitely a top 10 game but not the best out there.

    Robin- this might be a tall order:

    It would be great if there were separate, personalized for individual tastes. For example: there are a few people who's ratings I generally do not agree with for one reason or another. I'm not saying they are good or bad, just that we must have very different taste in pinball. It would be great if there were an option to exclude certain raters from your 'personal' aggregate ratings. Of course, the Top 100 and all the rest would not be impacted from this. On the opposite side of the coin, there are certain pinsiders whose opinion I value highly. It would be neat if I had the option to increase the weight of their ratings for my personal ratings aggregator.

    In the end, I think your current system is the best possible for a 'public' or 'standard' Top 100 ranking system. Just like in an election or any other voting system, each person is only allowed one vote and that vote carries the same weight as any other. Meaning Warren Buffet's vote has the same weight as my idiot neighbor who drinks beer on the porch in his underwear all day.

    Thanks for all that you do, Robin.


    1 year, 11 months ago
    #

    I haven't played Tron pro but I know the light show on the LE really makes the game stand out. In my opinion TRON LE deserves to be number one.



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