First time I heard of it was today.... Seems years down the road ...

Seems many years down the road with two games in front of it from the same guy. I sure hope JPop gets these games made. Would be great to see pinball technology pushed forward a bit.

Moved to boutique pinball subforum.

I got a response after emailing him directly

My question is...is it a full game, or not? The website says bagatelle lol....to me that means no flippers!

are you the guy that says "yes" when someone asks if you know what time it is?

Only if they ask if it's time to party

it says "2 flippers maybe 3 if flow allows"

http://www.pinballinventor.org/games/wonderland/feature.html

PARTIAL LIST of STANDARD PINBALL FEATURES

- Full size 1990s arcade-style pinball machine footprint
- Handrawn and inked playfield, backglass, cabinet artwork
- Ground-up new pinball game design and cabinet styling
- Stainless steel brackets, ballguides, hinges and trim
- Metal coin door with dual rejectors, lock and lighting
- Hardwood maple plywood cabinet construction (no mdf)
- Narrow body standard playfield size (21" x 46")
- Metal legs and levelers (custom legs are planned)
- 2 flipper basic player control (maybe 3 if it flows)
- New Patented "edgy" cabinet design built especially
- Free flowing organic ramp designs and metallic levels
- Beautiful Hand Painted / Illustrated Cabinet Artwork
- Custom 64-125 RGB Programmable Light Pixel System
- Planned lower level "Rabbit Hole" Mystery Playfield
- Brilliant Cointaker Premium LED Bulbs / Flashers
- 18" color LCD flat screen PIXELPLAY™ display
- Full size 27" x 24" - 10 color backglass panel
- Chrome ball plunger shooter assembly & Springs
- Beautiful 10+ color silk-screened playfield artwork
- Heavy Stainless Steel Cabinet Trim, Hinges and Decor
- Cabinet LED Light Effects and Illuminated Emblems
- NEW Titanium Hard Coat™ on the playfield
- New Hardware System with Full Capacity Drivers
- Traditional GI Light System with LED bulbs and Sockets
- 6 color silkscreened playfield plastics for brilliant color
- Truss Light Stage Design (Patent Pending)
- 120v-60hz Operation (220v-50hz please inquire)
- 5 Speaker "ZSound" 100W custom pinball sound system
- Aggressive Made-In-Usa Purchasing Selection
- Approximate Weight is 275 Pounds.
Professionally Built Shipping Carton and Packing
- Invisible INK Artwork and Designed Items
1 Million Drawn Lines of Ink - Our Endevour
- Standard Chrome Steel 1-1/16" Pinballs
- Much more!! Check out the featuregrams soon!

eh. That's what I get for copy/pasting then answering the phone instead of hitting send.

So, expecting to hear a bit more on this around these parts... got my rather interesting Alice letter today, and I'm up in the frozen north so surely someone else has received it before me!

Open for deposits now.
http://www.pinballinventor.org/games/wonderland/index.html

Seems like JPOP is a great ideas man.

Sometimes great ideas men need a "bread and butter" guy to actually produce something ...

I used to have a small car computer company with two computer "geniuses" ... Really clever dudes but they always kept coming up with new ideas and changing things all the bloody time.

I was just "make the thing as it is NOW and I will sell it!!" lol but of course they never made anything to sell, they were too busy coming up with new ideas.

I think JPOP could use someone who can help get these things to production ... Out the door ... And turned into cassssshhhhh!

(Hi JPOP if you are reading this ...)

rd.

Man, this is looking like it will be great. Jpop really chooses great themes. I just wish his games weren't so limited. I can only hope some of them go into public collections.

Such small runs are a waste of his creativity.

I want to jump in on this project but it seems like an awfully long way out to pony up a several thousand dollar interest free loan to the folks at zidware. To be honest though, $10k is probably more than I'm going to pay for any game (new or otherwise) for a long time.

My packet is in the mail. Got a message from John today.

FYI: Looks like an Alice in Wonderland themed pin is the next planned pin from Riot Pinball.

http://riotpinball.com/node/3

For those that aren't familiar, they are the designers of the Wrath of Olympus (WOOLY) pin.

How can I reach JP? I would like to ask him some questions about this game before I drop 2 gs on a deposit. Has he even put out the first one people put money on?

I think we might have an idea of how things are progressing on April 12 and 13.

-Mark

I'm not trolling here, but isn't it insane to be taking preorders on game three when you haven't even shipped game one? Even Jack doesn't have balls that brass.

Almost ... Jack has announced the designer for game three and WOZs that were paid for in 2011 haven't shipped yet.

So maybe not brass but they are certainly very shiny steel.

rd.

Spoke with Jpop a couple of weeks ago... very nice....but, of course not many specifics about any of the games... probably would need to make a trip and sign a NDA to really learn more...
Signed up online for the letter and info... but haven't received an offer in the mail.... maybe the same info is all ready online..
Was also offered a spot for the Zombie adventure land but man, hard to put money forward w/o any details..
Hopefully product will be coming out soon and it will be real nice... and fun to play..

Are any of JPop's planned games real enough?

What are the versions?
I can't wait for the package!

Huh! This could be pretty cool.

No way. No machine that doesn't at the very least have complete photos and details released to the public should be on any of the Pinside lists IMHO. Fine you pre-ordered it, it's not real or happening yet.

Can anyone comment on the versions, number built and total cost?

I'm betting Riot Pinball gets AIW out before JPop... Cool idea for a game, I wonder why this has not been done before?

I like the theme for sure but, its starting to become difficult to get excited over, since the only thing that's come out of this company are vaporware and promises. I mean even Skit-B has a fully working prototype that has been shown off and they don't even have professional pinball designer backgrounds, not to mention they collected no deposits\payments up front. Collecting cash and drumming up excitement over themes is the easy part, lets see something real from one of these concepts.

If you don't mind me asking, were you on a waiting list for a RAZA?

if memory serves, there were three versions all of which were at least $10k

Hey, so how's Magic Girl? Oh wait...it doesn't exist...you guys are really sending money for Game #3!?!? Wow...

He has a blog where buyers are updated on progress with pictures and info. From what I have seen so far it's very impressive and the art is breathtaking. He is very detail oriented and a perfectionist down to every minor detail. I'm waiting until the right time to visit him in Chicago and see it in person. As everyone knows he's very protective of his work and doesn't want some of his inventive ideas to get out before the game is finished, I can understand his point of view even though the general public finds it frustrating but I think after MG is finished people will understand why he had to do it this way.

Bat shit insane is what I'd call that.

But that's just me.

All you ever hear about is "art" and "innovation" ...how about a GAME you can PLAY?! I mean - sorry for being skeptical but Stern's a "well oiled machine" and has issues with QC and code. Jack's a new company trying to be a legit manufacturer, but WOZ sounds like a nightmare with constant reports of crashing, lights freezing, and other problems. When the guys trying to make a living as manufacturers are having trouble getting the job done right....how on earth is the "guy in his garage" going to get this machine done? Jpop really should have become a cult leader or something because he clearly knows how to keep a faithful flock, that's for sure.

John is soooo protective of his ideas - but only like 20 people are going to enjoy his innovations if Magic Girl ever sees the light of day - so, what's his long term gameplan....use these boutique games as proof of concept then sell the patents to Stern or JJP?

In any case...I'm going off on a tangent here....lets give him the benefit of the doubt.

Maybe 20 Magic Girls built by 2015
100 or so Zombie Adventureland built by....2017?
Alice ....2019?

I think I'm actually being generous lol ....you're gonna prepay for a game that's 5 years out (maybe)?

RobT nailed it....

Meh

X 2... Rare no one is twisting anyone's arm here! If you are patient and want what looks to be shaping up into an epic machine then jump in and if not.... Don't

Sure...but you can see how many would be skeptical, right? I mean....it's not just coming from nowhere.

Fleh.

Eh, he speaks for a lot of us. Fine, make awesome boutique games. I think making them limited is Lame with a capital L, but hey, his business, not mine. You know I bitch constantly about Stern's art being lackluster, and their print quality being crappy, it's not like I don't love the idea of a lovingly done hand drawn pin.

But taking pre-orders for game 3 when you have yet to ship game 1? That effing crazy, and anyone putting money down on it are gambling big time if you ask me.

Nobody ever said that anyone was twisting anyone's arm.

That doesn't mean that people can't have opinions on what is going on with RAZA. Or JJP. Or PPS. Or Spooky. Or Dutch Pinball. ETC.

It's pinball, this is a pinball forum, we are interested in discussing all of it, and many people will have an opinion, and it isn't always going to be positive. It's simply part of the discussion. It's not all roses for any of the manufacturers.

Agreed and my opinion was just given 4 posts above this one.

Rare I can definitely see how many would be skeptical! I have been on board the RAZA train for 1 year and have had moments of doubt for sure, but I am happy with the way the game is going now.

Well I wouldn't really call what you posted much of an opinion, as it came across more like you telling Rarehero to stop posting his opinion than it did about you having one, especially when you start it off with "nobody is twisting your arm".

No big deal though, I was probably overreacting to what you wrote in the first place.

I was in on RAZA too, but it quickly became apparent to me that I would not be able to tolerate the way in which the project and it's process would be done. Best of luck to those who are still in. I know the guy who got my spot is out now too, so there are at least three people who had my spot (#17 if I remember correctly).

It almost happened in 1991
alice2.jpg

All good Rob! I respect Rarehero's opinions and sometimes question my own sanity on this whole preorder thing as I am in on RAZA and Hobbit...

There's nothing to question, you're certifiable for sure!

I believe a few things:

1) it's not impossible to build a pinball game (witness Skit-B) and, I believe Jpop will also be using P-Roc system so making a pinball is not impossible
2) Jpop knows more about building/designing Pinball machines than 99.99999% of the people in the world, not to put Kevin from Skit-B down, but he's a babe in the woods next to Jpop.
3) If John can pull these games off, they will be works of art and will have features not seen on any machines
4) if John pulls these off and if the games turn out to play well and is complete such as even TOM or CV (I can see that being very possible), than I think these pins will be very collectible and looking at a $8K Woz or $7600 STLE next to those pins the $10K Jpop pin will be a great bargain from both the art and rarity perspective.

5) hopefully John is able to actually build the machines and at the very least they play on par with TOTAN or TOM or CV (hopefully better). My question is not with John's ability or his creativity or artistic ability or his pinball know how. It's just if some unforeseen complication occurs. I don't even want to give an example, but something could occur that could derail these pins. This is why there is a risk. I don't mind the time factor or the cost. But there is a risk that something could happen that is unexpected and therein lies the risk of paying in advance.

If John were to read this, I think the better course of action would be have a refundable deposit of lets say $2K but don't ask for the balance until the machines are in transit or near (such as Stern), meaning the deposit is a serious commitment of money but not a major calamity if something unforeseen happens.

My doubt is not in John, but in the unforeseen, and the reluctance to pre-pay in full, feeling that he should have enough money to get the ball rolling with deposits.

I'm a RAZA buyer and I like to think I'm VERY patient... but what you allude to here, plus the general lack of common business practices, is my number one beef with the whole setup.

When I send in a large check in for a RAZA installment, it would be great to get a simple receipt or statement of account with balance owing. When payment milestones come and go and there is no email, no contact at all, I start to wonder how well organized things are over there.
I know john is a designer, but this is still a business and people are paying real money.

My last email was a simple question regarding one of the last major payments on RAZA (due last fall I think?) and whether it would be pushed off to reflect the protracted timeline of the project and the fact that we are nowhere near his projected dates. I got no reply on two speared emails. The last was a couple of months ago. I know I can call him direct... but I shouldn't have to chase him down and ask him to dig through my paperwork.

Yeah, there are bank transfer and transaction records and such... but, with nearly $7K into the project now, I think it would be professional to at least get a receipt of payment... if not a quarterly email from JPOP with a statement of my account and balance owing and any updates/changes to the payment plan. The whole thing is just a little loosey goosey for me.

Now... taking money on game number 3 at this stage is just offensive to MG and RAZA buyers in my opinion. Especially since none of us REALLY know at what state any of these projects are.

As excited as I am about all of John's games and the small updates that we do get to see, I have to admit that I'm getting pretty bummed at these flakey business practices